Sidechaining in X1

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vespesian
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/09 03:13:42 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]


I double checked the Eareckon SD COMP 87 compressor and in X1, if the compressor is in an FX bin on a mono interleave track, the sidechain will not work.

 
Yeah most likely this is because the plugin is expecting the sidechain to be "packed" side by side next to the mono input, as opposed to being the first channel in the next stereo input pair. By default SONAR assumes that additional sidechain inputs are offset by a factor of 2 since most sidechainable stereo plugins listen for the sc input this way. The only exception to this we knew of was our VC64. I guess this plugin is another exception :) SONAR actually handles this case but there is no way currently to tell SONAR that the plugin wants this.
 
This happens with PSP sidchainable compressors as well - the key signal has to be stereo. PSP products also freak out over the dble precision engine.


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#61
cyberzip
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/09 08:31:33 (permalink)
So to sum it up, the X1b update will fix the 64 bit double precision engine (nothing to do with 64 bit Sonar!) sidechain problem, so that compressor plugins from Cytomic, PSP & Softube will sidechain properly with X1b? Am I correct?
#62
bysbox1
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/25 07:22:09 (permalink)
Uh  . . . .
 
This has been a problem since Sonar 7.  I have reported it almost every sonar version via the trouble reporter.  Sidechaining on certain plugins (I know Cytomic and Fabfilter are this way), simply will not work in Sonar.
 
I also know both Cytomic and Fabfilter reported it.  I have extensive emails back and forth from Andy at Cytomic about this problem.  He finally refunded me my money for the Glue when he believed the problem was not on his side.  Andy contacted Fabfilter and he confirmed they reported it to you as well.
 
So you should have problem reports for this from not ony me, but the vendors as well going back to Sonar 7.  And it's still not fixed from what I see here?
 
This has been one of my hugest frustrations with Sonar.  It repeatedly gets ignored.  It's been ignored so much that I have been serously considering switching.  And I have been a loyal user since the old Cakewalk/midi days.
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]


It's quite clear that it's not the third party compressors at fault, but Cakewalk's implementation of the VST 2.4 sidechaining standard.
 
Ahem thats a bit of a stretch Paul, especially considering that there is no VST 2.4 standard for sidechaining that you talk of. Its also completely incorrect that sidechaining only works with the Sonitus compressor in X1. There is a fair list of plugins that work perfectly with sidechaining in SONAR.
 
I wrote a whitepaper on sidechaining for VST years ago which is a scheme that several vendors follow. You can find it here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/devXchange/article.aspx?aid=102
The root issue is that there is no way in VST 2.4 to define explicitly which channel is the sidechain channel.
 
I will look into the specific plugins that you have issues with. As always you MUST report these via our bug tracking system. There is no report for this and hence it was not on the X1B radar.
EDIT: I looked at your first video. Your test with the VC-64 is flawed. In your video you do not have the key input enabled on the VC-64 so obviously sidechaining won't work. You are telling VC-64 to ignore its sidechain input!
I just tested the VC-64 with sidechaining in X64 with double precision on as well as off and it works perfectly with both stereo and mono content as long as the Key is enabled (see the button called Key in the VC-64 UI)
 
Regarding the other plugins it will have to be investigated on a case by case basis. If they dont work when double precision is on its likely to be a plugin issue since there is really nothing special done in DP mode as far as sidechaining is concerned. As I said above it works perfectly with Vintage channel which is also a VST as well as with other VST plugins. If you have the specific vendor contacts please forward them to me and I will work on on one with them.

 

Byron Thomas X-1/Velocity/Curve Recordings
Altitude Studios
www.altitudegrooves.com

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#63
bysbox1
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/25 07:41:20 (permalink)
DOH!
 
Should have read the whLat4eole thread!  I will test this today.  If this works, then I'll make the full Sonar X1 jump.  I have been using it only for testing purposes because of this issue and was till using 8.5.3 only.
 
Sorry about that Noel.  I will now test wit Sonar X1B.  Thanks for the fix!  Been waiting for this for quite a while . . . .
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Some updates..
 

Allegedly: "There is a bug in Sonar's 64-bit mix engine that crashes The Glue when using the external sidechain input.

 
Its not alleged its for real :) Thanks for the clear error report - the problem was indeed that we were sending double precision data to the plugin on the sidechain input. I was able to reproduce it and fixed it for X1B. Somehow this bug report slipped through our Radar earlier, since it might have been mistakenly assumed to be specific to this one plugin. We verified that this addresses the problem with Fabfilter in double precision mode.
This should address all the remaining sidechaining issues that Paul was running into without any workarounds in X1B. Thanks to both of you for bringing these issues to our attention.
 

BTW, I've been public beta testing NI's Maschine 1.6 update and reported a problem as did a number of other Sonar users with both 8.5.3 and X1. The new update (Maschine) wouldn't work. It turns out the workaround is to limit the # of inputs to the plugin to '2' max in Pluginmanager.

 
Yes, NI contacted us and I supplied them with that workaround for 8.5 and X1. Maschine 1.6 exposes 8 inputs. SONAR was not expecting multichannel inputs on Synths and this would cause the problem. This workaround is not required for X1B since the problem has been solved in X1B.
 

 

Byron Thomas X-1/Velocity/Curve Recordings
Altitude Studios
www.altitudegrooves.com

2 Computers, 2 Intel Core2Quads, 8 UAD Cards . . . What more can one ask for?
#64
trane43
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/25 10:41:33 (permalink)
Noel, What do you use to sidechain with? Do you use a 3rd party solution? If so what ;)
Glenn

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#65
bigboi
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/25 12:12:27 (permalink)
Been waiting for quite sometime for Sonar to catch up with other daws using vst 3.  it is embarrasing that my dad, who knows only how to hit the record button and play, can use vst 3 in studio one.  gonna take a hard look at the next presonus software release if cakewalk doesnt catch up on this.......
#66
ba_midi
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Re:Sidechaining in X1 2011/03/25 14:36:55 (permalink)
Update ....

I can confirm that Side Chaining is now working with FabFilter Pro-C (SC version) just fine.

That's some good news.



Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#67
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