ToneCarver
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/05 22:23:52
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Shad,
Liking the huge drums hits. Cool that you played these in .. gives it that real/improv/reactive feel. Dramatic piece.
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AsherLongley
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/05 22:42:57
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Shad, That was crazy, like the old movie "Coma" (which still freaks me out) and the old "Andrameda Strain" (which, again, still freaks me out..... as well as the original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, but that's revealing too much so I'll just stop while I'm ahead)  The one-take recording can certainly be felt in this piece. Your description helped me to hear the song as it is meant to be heard. From my previous comment, it certainly sounds like something you'd hear in a suspense movie. The only thing that got to me was an ultra high pitch that hurt my ears, so I had to take the headphones off and listen through the speakers. Those drum sounds were very real. Wow, a synth. That's impressive!
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tdye
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/05 23:31:17
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Shad, seemed like the vocal was not so overwhelming as before. A better blend and better listening experience IMHO.
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Mamabear
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/05 23:32:09
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I haven't been able to listen to much in the last few days, and it was a surprise to see that somehow I influenced the making of this song! Cool! And you beat me to writing a song with a cool synth in it. Maybe some day. Anyway, yeah--this is great. Unusual, perhaps, but very well done!
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marcos69
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/06 00:03:56
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Hey, neat stuff. Great hook, as in this is still ringing in my head. As mentioned, drums are killer.
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/06 19:02:46
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Bill - Thanks man, I appreciate your words. Matthew - I recall the first time I saw Andromeda Strain - when the guy came out of the helo, cut open the dead guys arm and sand poured out, I was really freaked out (I was maybe 10 when I saw it the first time). That image stayed with me my whole life. I was unaware there was a ultra-high pitch going on... I may have become deaf to some tones over the years. The one thing I found about the last two songs were that they sounded really bad in headphones. There are some sound flaws with the Kore synths that I really do not like, and the mix seemed to work way better with speakers than the phones. Can you tell me where that pitch is? I will try to eq it out. Tom - Thanks for listening again. Much appreciated my friend. Janet - I had you in mind when I started this. It was only supposed to be a short demo of things you can do with a controller, but evolved into this monster  . It is my hope you will apply some of your amazing piano talent to a synth. I suspect you will come up with some very cool stuff. I wanted to help you get some idea of what you could do and how easy it can be. Mark - Thanks man. Not quite up to your quality of stuff, but I am working on it, and with the inspiration you guys provide, its a goal that is a real joy to work toward. Cheers Shad
post edited by foxwolfen - 2008/06/06 19:24:07
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Mamabear
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/06 19:11:07
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Um, not sure how to take that--you had me in mind and it evolved into this monster! Anyway, thanks for thinkin' of me. I think. Amazing piano talent--the problem is, I found out you can't play what I wanted to do like you do a piano, so it's a learning curve (like everything else here!) But I haven't given up! (it was more like one note at a time, which is pretty boring.) Don't know if you ever heard me say that the first time I played strings in a project, I used the sustain pedal on the keyboard. I had no idea how those strings could hold out that long w/o the pedal. LOL. They sounded so bad I put the program away for many months. Beagle finally set me straight on that and voila ! I had strings. That still don't sound real, but I'm workin' on it! And I like that Shad is short for Shadow. Cool! If I had another son.. no, wait, I'm on grandkids now. Well, we'll see! 
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 00:20:29
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LOL
Janet, I was worried that when I said you inspired the song, you might think the fact it was called "slaying the medusa" was somehow a reference to you (which it is not heheheh).
Its very true what you say. A piano is a very precise instrument. But, this is why I think you will have some real fun with synths. The skill it takes to play piano would make playing synth a breeze. It does require a bit of a mindset shift though. You have a few more variables to play with, such as things being triggered on note off events and so on, but that just makes for an even larger sound canvas to paint on.
Cheers
Shad
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Mamabear
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 00:27:00
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Yeah, I REAL mindset shift. And a huge learning curve. I'll be sure to let you know if I ever get my mind around this stuff!
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 00:52:10
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The first step is to just try the various presets in easy synth modules like the free Kore player. There is a whole world of synths that are already premade. Later of course, learning how to program arps, set up the oscillators, tweak effects and adjust the keying events does get more involved, but that is not necessary to do right away. You can learn as you go just by using what already exists.
That being said, not all songs work with all synths, thats for sure. I am working on a song now that uses a similar arp to the first Sinbad song I did, but sounded utterly terrible when I played Sinbad. The tonal tuning is different, and the way it reacts to inputs.
Cheers
Shad
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Mamabear
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 00:54:02
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Thanks, Shad. Given that I didn't understand half of that I realize I still have a long ways to go! But I'll definitely ask you when I start to try to figure it out!
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 01:00:08
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I am at your service m'lady. You may call upon me anytime.
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Mamabear
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 01:02:41
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Thank you, kind sir.
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ohgrant
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 11:24:31
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Great tension building sounds on this one, masterfully produced.. Kind of reminds me of a new video game before all hell breaks loose. Top notch!!
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AsherLongley
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/07 23:55:29
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ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
Matthew - I recall the first time I saw Andromeda Strain - when the guy came out of the helo, cut open the dead guys arm and sand poured out, I was really freaked out (I was maybe 10 when I saw it the first time). That image stayed with me my whole life. I was unaware there was a ultra-high pitch going on... I may have become deaf to some tones over the years. The one thing I found about the last two songs were that they sounded really bad in headphones. There are some sound flaws with the Kore synths that I really do not like, and the mix seemed to work way better with speakers than the phones. Can you tell me where that pitch is? I will try to eq it out.
It's in the first synth instrument and sounds like a "crystal" effect in the ultra-high frequency range. Almost like a trailing, secondary crystal echo of the original tone. It's almost like an 2ms echo at 5 octives higher than the original note. I've been working with the Sonitus Multiband EQ recently (trying to better EQ/compress my instruments) and it gives you a great deal of control over EQing specific bands and defining the bands themselves. If you want to take that sound out you'd probably want to solve it at the source, but the Multiband EQ may be an alternative for isolating that specific frequency and squashing it.
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/08 00:41:28
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My gosh... I had to listen over and over... I could not hear it... then... suddenly it popped out.
Its just on the edge of perception. But once you notice it, wow!
I have no idea what that is causing that. I will have to look and see if it can be EQed/limited, or if more drastic measures will be needed.
What kind of headphones you use? I may need to pick a pair of them up. Mine do not transmit it at all, but my monitors do.
Thanks Matt, I appreciate the heads up on that.
Cheers
Shad
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AsherLongley
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/08 02:08:47
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ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
My gosh... I had to listen over and over... I could not hear it... then... suddenly it popped out.
Its just on the edge of perception. But once you notice it, wow!
I have no idea what that is causing that. I will have to look and see if it can be EQed/limited, or if more drastic measures will be needed.
What kind of headphones you use? I may need to pick a pair of them up. Mine do not transmit it at all, but my monitors do.
Thanks Matt, I appreciate the heads up on that.
Cheers
Shad
I've actually listened through two different head-phones. One pair is an AKG K44 and the other is a Sennheiser HD202. Those are my "movie" headphones. I have my studio headphones out in the studio (I can't remember what model they are, but I don't usually listen to forum music out there anyway) All that said, I can hear the frequency on both headphones. Again, it really reminds me of those 70s-80s movies that give me the chills. Not like gross-out chills, but mess-with-your-head chills. That scene with the "sandblood" just made my skin crawl ( I was 26 when I first saw it). All of those "bee-doo bee-doo bee-doo" sound effects they used in the 70s make me want to crawl into the wall. *shiver*
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Roflcopter
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/08 03:09:37
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Its just on the edge of perception. But once you notice it, wow! Yeah, I can hear it - it also goes left - right, I think it follows one of the synths with the panning.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Spaceduck
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/08 10:57:05
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Man, how the hell have I missed this thread until now? This is the coolest "4-note-vatiation" piece since Beethoven's 5th. Are you somehow involved in film/video production? Because I get these really powerful visual images when I listen to it, like there's a movie playing in my head. Full of dark, dripping, cavernous sets with thick sulphrous fog and little green oompa-loompas scurrying in the shadows. Of course, uh, I get those visions a lot... Could be something I ate... Anyway I thought I'd let you know I'm writing this down in my "secret awesome tricks" notebook: The vocals were recorded with my AudioTechnica LDC, I then used an amplification filter to max the gain without clipping. From there I then ran a high-pass filter at 1k, then a vocorder filter to give it some squelch. After that it was treated with a chain of a distortion filter, a panning filter, a compressor set for a wild snare drum, then a stereo enhancer and finally a maximizer. The first version used a bit of chorus and reverb, but I dropped that for this latest version. There is no EQ on the vox (seemed OK as it was). For the longest time, I had no idea what all this talk of "vocals" was about because I kept saying to myself "All I hear is that sampled clip...probably from some old film", but you say that was actually recorded in the studio? You don't know how long I've been trying to get that effect. Way cool, I'm going to try it asap. Synths: I love it when people aren't afraid to turn the knobs and press the little buttons while playing. As with a Hammond B3, that's half the show!
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/08 15:30:43
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Thanks Ducky. I actually started making my own music about a year ago for film work. I was pretty disturbed that everybody had their hand out for large amounts of money for really lousy music. When you look at the stuff you can buy for vid production work, I mean most of it is pure cheese. Utter garbage not worth a cent. Yet some of the people wanted 25 dollars a minute or more (at minimum). I said no... no way am I spending any money for crap. Instead I decided to make my own. That way if its cheesy, at least its my cheese and I had the fun of making it. I also do not want to use samples. Don't get me wrong, they work well, and I do not begrudge anybody using them. But for me, I want everything to be original (as far as that can go). Its more just my own sense of pride. If I can make it sound like a sample then I have succeeded. Its also partly that as a storyteller, I want complete artistic control. That means DIY for everything: camera, acting, music, story... I will leave singing out for now as there are somethings I cannot do, and singing pretty much tops the list. As far as it goes, the effects in this song were not entirely what I wanted as an end result, but it worked well enough for now. It will take more experimentation to achieve the sound I am looking for. Cheers Shad
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jamesg1213
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/09 07:16:41
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Hi Shad, a bit late to the party here, but really liking this one. Very atmospheric stuff, love the cavernous percussion, got a little hint of 'Time' by Floyd here and again. Really effective composotion, just crying out for a movie to fit into.
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/09 08:52:18
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Hi James - no worries. I was thinking the drums reminded me of something I knew, but could not put my finger on it. You nailed it (though Floyd is significantly more accurate than me lol). Thanks for listening.
Grant - I seemed to have been remiss in my thanks to you. Sorry about that. I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment.
Cheers
Shad
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No How
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/09 09:08:53
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ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
There are two identical drum tracks.
I bounced the main one, and then offset the audio track by a few MS (leading). On the plain midi one, I used the "ambient" preset in the CW stock reverb. On the bounced audio track there is a mild chorus on them.
I find digital reverb sounds like the drums are in a large steel pipe. One of these days I will pick myself up an analog fx kit.
sounds really really good. i agree about the digital reverbs. I have a couple freebie reverbs one is the Kjerrhss (spelling)classic reverb and the other is Awanda (spelling) soft reverb and the second is for less tinny. If you're interested I'll get the correct spelling and try to get the links. Good work man!
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/09 09:28:07
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That would be great. Thanks. I came across one free one on Saturday when I went looking for more FX plugs. I can't remember what it was now, but it was a give away by a real company... they actually bragged that it "sounds like your in a big steel pipe" ... OK... NOT! Thanks for listening. Cheers Shad
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No How
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/09 09:55:45
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s o n g s – Beauty lodged in a bad hotel has no value. Raymond Lull
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kayehl
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/09 11:24:05
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you produce some really nice synthesizer sounds, and the way you used the reverb gives the mix a real deep 3D sound. Reading how you created this, you can really tune in on the nuances changing in the sound, it makes me want to try it, very creative idea.
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foxwolfen
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/10 02:24:58
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Rick - thanks for the link man. Grabbed them.
Kevin - Thanks, it was a lot of fun to make, even if I had to pare back the vocal track I had (which was a hoot to record)
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Spaceduck
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/10 03:46:30
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ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
I actually started making my own music about a year ago for film work. You mean you've only been at this for a year?!? Amazing... I was pretty disturbed that everybody had their hand out for large amounts of money for really lousy music. When you look at the stuff you can buy for vid production work, I mean most of it is pure cheese. Utter garbage not worth a cent. Yet some of the people wanted 25 dollars a minute or more (at minimum). I've seen that, and I'm always shaking my head. If the video folks would just wander over here once in a while, they'd see there's a ton of musical talent--most musicians are willing to give it away for free. But those musical licensing sites are just like you said. Expensive CHEESE.
if its cheesy, at least its my cheese and I had the fun of making it.
Ah yes, homemade cheese can be very fun. And why do I have a sudden urge for wine & crackers? Anyway, if your recent work is any indication, you're going to have one helluva audio/visual production when you put it all together. Be sure to share that with us! I also do not want to use samples. Don't get me wrong, they work well, and I do not begrudge anybody using them. But for me, I want everything to be original (as far as that can go). Its more just my own sense of pride. If I can make it sound like a sample then I have succeeded. Its also partly that as a storyteller, I want complete artistic control. That means DIY for everything: camera, acting, music, story Have you heard of the German director Tom Tykwer? His most famous film is probably Run Lola Run where he did the writing, directing & music himself (killer music, too. I think you'd like it). I think all great artists must be control freaks. 
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Tombo
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/10 22:14:15
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Well, that was interesting! I too, love how you experimented here. While it is not something I'd listen to on a regular basis, there were some cool sounds and expressions. I found myself growing tired of the vocal line, and wondered about another line or perhaps a female voice in there somewhere for more variety... I bet this sounds great on 15" Woofers! Added later: I can also here some double bass pizzicato and bows in places on this. Best, Mark
post edited by Tombo - 2008/06/10 22:47:22
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RobertB
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RE: Slaying the Medusa (Updated VOX)
2008/06/10 23:23:36
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The drums are not a loop, they were played on the pads on the keyboard and were played live all the way through. The mistakes from them are left in as well. They use a Kit from Kore as well.
This was all done real time in one take.
I love that. Loops are fine, but you can't touch the inner satisfaction of performing a piece live. I missed the earlier version(s), but this is very cool. I like it.
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