Helpful ReplySlow bounce, fast bounce ...

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brundlefly
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/07 18:12:28 (permalink)
As usual, you need to detail the circumstances of both these issues better. Personally, I have not encountered the FX tail issue for quite some time, though it has been a problem in the past. It might depend on a particular combination of preference settings (esp. Always Stream Audio Through FX), specific FX used, bounce settings project architecture and bounce procedures.
 
I'm not clearly understanding the second issue but if there is signal on the track selected to receive the bounce, that signal could easily be included in the bounced audio, depending on your bounce options. For example, if you have nothing selected, nothing muted, everything routed to the Master bus, and bounce with Source = Buses, and Master bus selected, any pre-existing audio source on the target track will be included in the bounced audio. Nothing surprising about that.

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Beepster
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/07 18:25:58 (permalink)
williamcopper
All in all, are we agreed that there are two bugs with rendering midi?     1) somehow the render engine stores up any tail for the selected area rendered, and plops it into the next render (unless other play actions happen between) and 2) the render uses the target track routing, even though the target track is NOT selected and is NOT part of the intended render, to affect the result of the render.   




No one... at all... agreed to anything of the sort.
 
What seems to be agreed upon is that you are bucking absolutely ALL suggestions, advice and even reality itself.
 
What you seem to be referring to is a completely DIFFERENT "issue" and sounds like some weird routing/export option choice you have managed to set up where you have hardware feeding the export while tails are still audible... or something screwed up like that.
 
But of course... it has to be a bug. It always has to be a bug... until it's proven not to be a bug... and then... it's a bug.
 
Roight?
Anderton
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/07 18:52:45 (permalink)
Beepster
 
No one... at all... agreed to anything of the sort.



Frankly Beepster, I feel that's a little harsh. I think we can all agree he believes he's experiencing some kind of issue, and that no one else has been able to reproduce it.

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Beepster
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/07 19:17:24 (permalink)
I'm thinking "Real Time" "Audible" bounce from the main hardware outputs (or even a physically wired loopback) could do it...
 
but a HIGHLY educated and experienced individual would certainly be able to avoid such things.
 
Therefore... bug.
dcumpian
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 08:25:45 (permalink)
The tail thing is not a bug. It's the way the audio buffers have always worked. You must select a range to bounce (or export) that includes the tail. While you can tell Sonar how long a normal tail will be, that's simply an estimate. Before I bounce, I always playback the midi until the tail is silent. That's the end of my range.
 
I thought that there was a setting somewhere to dump the buffers before each bounce (or playback), but I can't find it...
 
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williamcopper
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 11:51:01 (permalink)
Not to flog a dead horse or anything, but if you are attempting to render a portion of a continuous midi track, it is simply not possible to "select beyond the tail".    And while it's understandable that the tail is there after a render is complete, it is not so great to then dump it at the beginning of a completely different render, completely different tracks. 
John
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 12:20:44 (permalink)
As much as I hate to agree with Mr. Copper this is an annoying issue to deal with. It should be fixed. That little bit of audio that can show up at the beginning of a new audio track.  

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John
KPerry
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 12:26:05 (permalink)
If memory serves me right, there are 2 ways of solving the tail issue:
 
1 - Toggle the audio engine before the next bounce
 
2 - Set the "Always suspend on stop"/"Always suspend on play" for FX on the project (only works for VST/VSTi, not DX/DXi though) in their VST property pages.
 
Don't quote me on the second one though.
 
I actually had this happen years ago and serendipitously ended up with an amazing delay effect at the start of a track that stayed in the final version...
John
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 12:33:12 (permalink)
I normally slip edit it out. 

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John
williamcopper
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 12:48:03 (permalink)
I thought I was being superstitious by pressing the space bar (play) in between every bounce, but that fits with KPerry's work-around #1.
post edited by williamcopper - 2015/12/08 12:59:28
KPerry
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 13:26:06 (permalink)
That's not quite the same: again, from memory, toggling the audio engine flushes buffers; pressing space (start/stop) doesn't necessarily and/or might just load the buffers with *new* audio data...
notscruffy2
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 13:56:44 (permalink)
So the bromance is off?
brundlefly
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 14:21:37 (permalink)
KPerry
I actually had this happen years ago and serendipitously ended up with an amazing delay effect at the start of a track that stayed in the final version...



You are not alone; below is a similar post from a long thread about this issue that dates back to X1:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2385959
 
In my recent experience, there are cases where a buffered tail will play back at the start after rewinding (e.g. Clip FX tails), but for whatever reason, I haven't had a problem with them being printed to a bounce for a long time - maybe because it's plugin-specific. Per this old thread, the Sonitus DX FX are prone to this.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 17:01:50 (permalink)
John
I normally slip edit it out. 


To elaborate on this, presumably you do listen to a project right to the end, so it should be obvious which track (or tracks) have any tail sounding after the project stops, so it should be a piece of cake to identify the longest one and slip edit the length of it accommodate the tail.
Ergo when you select all (or none ) the tail will be included with any bounce/export.

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John
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 17:22:23 (permalink)
No this is not what I would call a tail. Its an unflushed buffer that will hold over to the beginning of a new track. Its a blip on the track. 

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John
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 17:36:12 (permalink)
Ok, I thought that was what we were talking about.
 
Too late here - need sleep. Catch you in 10 hours or so

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Base 57
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/08 21:26:17 (permalink)
You can select a region longer than a midi clip. The bounced audio will be as long as the selection. Even a hundred measures longer (just did it). Besides, the answer to the OP is to use the new synth record option. Folks asked for this and I could never understand why they didn't just freeze. Mr. Copper's problem seems to be what this new feature is all about.
williamcopper
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/09 00:43:24 (permalink)
Why not use the new synth record option?   Mainly, I select groups of tracks by musical material, not by which VST is involved; also I'm still on the H rev and so far am afraid to change in the middle of this big project. 
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Re: Slow bounce, fast bounce ... 2015/12/09 10:41:57 (permalink)
I understand and agree. For every upgrade Twelve Tone or Cakewalk has ever released since "Pro Audio" my biggest problems have been trying to work on old projects in the new software.
 That being said; the way you have described your workflow, I believe you would benefit from K. As opposed to "freeze" record synth doesn't disable the VST. You can solo the specific group of tracks you want to create an audio clip of, select a region and punch record that part. Then move the resulting clip to a new track and record another group of tracks.
 I'm not trying to sell Kingston to you. You've paid for it already. I do believe however, you will ultimately be more satisfied with K than H. I am.
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