tbosco


 WOW!!!!  And I am so glad I mis-read the title!!!
This tune is ready for the radio guys!
  I know I'm going to take a lot of heat for this, and it's not really a crit as more of a personal taste thing- but I'm not a fan of the short room reverb vocally.  I prefer a bit longer or maybe a bit of pre-delay.   Again, it's a taste thing.

Great lyrics, songwriting, and arrangement!  LOVE that guitar and the spread on rhythm guitars.

Mighty fine.  Thanks for sharing.

Hi Tony, thanks for checking us out and leaving some feedback. Truth be told, I too prefer the types of verb you spoke of. However, as I mentioned to shad (foxwolfen) being a product of the 80's, I had a serious addiction to verb. Especially pre-delay and longer tailed verb. If you're not careful, it can date you in a heartbeat and well, quite a bit of my recording techniques and sound are 80's esq as is...lol...so I try to stay away from the bigger verbs. I think this song would have lost it's up close and personal vibe going down that road. Yeah it's all a matter of opinion and you knowhow it goes...we'll never please everyone, but I must be honest in saying....
 
The day I left the larger verbs with more pre-delay behind, was the day my mixes improved. Trust me, if I truly hear something should be there that has something like that, I won't hesitate to use it. But another thing I've found is it also alters the sound of a voice to where your start and stop times sort of get jacked up. This allows me to hold out vocal parts longer instead of relying on a verb tail to extend me or a pre-delay to lightly swell me in or bring in the effect. You also have to be careful using bigger verbs or verbs with more pre-delay...so you can sometimes get less out of your vocal.
 
Using the smaller verbs, if you use the right one like say the EMT 250 that I used, it literally gorws the sound of the voice and because that verb is so lush and transparent, you can actually use a bit more of it and not go over-board. So I definitely get what you're saying and don't think you'll get any heat for it (other than an explanation from me which I hope you don't consider "heat") because it IS a way we could have gone that would have probably been acceptable too. :) Thanks again for stopping by and commenting. :)
 
-Danny

This level of competence makes me want to go in one of 2 directions

1 - completely rethink the way I approach songwriting/guitar playing/mixing
2 - give up altogether because I'll never get this good.

Awesome stuff you 2 - you should be proud.

STinGA: Thanks for the listen and the kind words! Left you another novel on your song....hope it helps and you don't take offense to anything brother. :)

Jonesey: Thanks my friend! Nah, you don't need to change a thing. You've never shared anything with me that was weak in song, arrangement or your awesome guitar playing...so don't even think about it. :) Some of those epic pieces you've shared were incredible and you would get some high praises if you posted them here. The classic rockers and prog guys that like to be taken on a journey through song would jump all over you brother. Glad you liked the song, thanks again!

Tony: Yeah I agree with you too on all counts. I guess I'm just trying to sort of keep up with the times a bit while allowing my voice to shine a bit more than having the bigger verbs do the shining for me....if that makes sense? Trust me...if I let myself go, my entire mix would sound like it was in an airplane hangar. LOL!!!! I STILL love that big verb sound! I just got tired of being bashed for it...so I curbed the addiction a little. Hahaha!

Well, I share your feelings on the Breverb. I'm not that impressed with it at all. I'll give you a few things to consider that I think you'll enjoy. The Lexicon plug suite is fantastic. Next in line, the IK Multimedia CSR verb suite has really impressed me. They really did a nice job on that stuff. And of course, you can't go wrong with our old friend Sonitus. I still think that verb sounds great and can be tweaked into sounding like whatever you want with a little work.

But to me...the Grand-daddy of them all, is that UAD EMT-250 verb. That thing just totally obliterates everything because it's so lush and transparent. It truly is. No matter what you put through it, it will sound great. Sometimes you have to work it a little bit, but it doesn't take long to dial in whatever you need. The downside is...you need a UAD-2 card to have it. That said, that's one of my UAD effects that I'd be lost without. It's really an exceptional verb in my opinion.

Believe it or not...and you may laugh when I say this, but I still to this day, use the Cakewalk FxVerb. I can't tell you how many times I've been complimented when using that verb. People will say "what did you use on that vocal stack" etc. It's a good verb if you work it a little and it's easy to use. The downside, you lose it if you use Sonar 64. I have some awesome presets that I've created for that verb over the years. They still serve me well today and that verb is also pretty under-rated to me.

Then of course, last but not least, the use of properly recorded impulses. This seems to be what I use most often now because if you buy (or find) the right impulses, reverb takes on a different sound. You lose that digital verb type sound if you know what I mean? Impulses sound a little warmer and natural to me. Really great when creating room simulations for drums or especially guitar and vocals. I use them too as well as a digital verb. The impulses literally create the room atmosphere....the verb gives me the effect. So it's a nice combination if you play your cards right and experiment a little.

This works incredibly well for guitar sims. The problem we encounter with sims is, most times you can still hear that direct type sound going on. Adding a reverb to it can help a bit, but when you use the right "small room" or "mic air" impulse, that guitar takes on a different sound ambience. Like...you literally get the space between a cab and the mic and can add it in, tweak it, and honest, you can't tell the sound is a sim and it loses that "direct" type sound. I've experimented and done serious lab work on this sort of thing for many years. I'm at a point now to where I can mic my cab using a few mics at once, then use my speaker sim sound...and I can't even tell the difference because I've done in simulation, what was happening with the mic's in a sense.

You create a room within a room and eq the rooms, then compress them just right...control the space in which the room spreads and man...you have this incredible transformation that takes place on your guitar tones. Every time I mic my cabs, I always see how my speaker sim holds up against the mic'd cab files. I always find myself saying "why did I even mic it...it sounds nearly identical." LOL! :) Hope some of this helps...thanks again for stopping by.

-Danny

JS: Thanks a lot for the listen...glad you liked it, much appreciated. :)

-Danny

I'm a little late to join the party but I guess it's never too late... This is one of the sweetest sounding vox from Danny I have ever heard. Maximum respect!

Paulo: thanks man, much appreciated. I've never been much of a Jovi fan believe it or not...but thanks for the compliment. I'm sure you could sing even better if you put a little time into it. Ok, it may take a lot of time...it's taken me forever and I'm still not quite happy. I sang back-ups for most of my life. I started singing lead vocals in like the early 90's. I'm still trying to nail that "lead vocal" sound to where I no longer sound like a back-up singer attempting to sing lead. It's the hardest thing I've ever tried to do. Whew, they sure ain't kidding when they say "you're either born with a voice, or you aren't." I know I sure wasn't, so I keep working at it. I just wish it wasn't so frustrating to achieve though I am happy with my progress thus far. It's just taken me way longer than I thought it would to at least get consistent. Timbre...uggh...that's another issue altogether.

Panu: Never too late is right...thanks man! So glad you liked the vocals.

Mark: Thanks a lot for the listen and kind words. I sincerely appreciate the vocal compliment.

-Danny

alkie: Thanks for the listen, glad you enjoyed it. Hahaha...we're the opposite from each other. I'm a "believer" yet I don't listen to any Christian bands.

Thanks for the props on the instruments etc. Just a FYI as for some reason this may have gotten lost somewhere, but I actually wrote and created this entire arrangement from another song Philip had written. I used and re-arranged a few of his melodies as well as the lyrics and re-wrote this particular piece from the ground up.

If he ever decides to share his original version of the song, you'll hear how much different they sound from each other. His original was the inspiration, but the song movements, feel, vocal phrasing and parts in this version are completely different from the original. Of course I'm sincerely not trying to take anything away from Philip as it is his song and always will be, but I don't want anyone to think I just performed his song verbatim and sang exactly what was given. That was not the case at all and I did take part in actually writing and arranging what you hear on this version. :) Lead vocal phrasing, back up vocal harmonies, instrumentation, flow, key changes, additional parts...none of that existed in the original to the extent it does now. He DID have that going on in the original, it was just way different than this and wasn't the same flavor, parts or style.

Like he had mentioned in one of his posts, he pretty much gave me a country vibe in the original with totally different vocal phrasing and song parts. I turned it into this and produced it based on the inspiration. :)

-Danny

tbosco


Danny-  Sorry so long getting back to you.   I also use the CW FXReverb for a few things.  No problem with it.  The Sonitus works very well for me, and I really get mileage out of my old friend the Lex Pantheon.
A freebie that I use a LOT is called AMBIENCE.  If you haven't checked it out, you should.  Probably the best freebie "on the market"..  LOL 

My problem with the Breverb is that no matter which style I choose, they all sound like '80s gated reverb...without the gate.  Longer "whooshy" tails...not ambient space tails.
Is it just me there?

Hi Tony,
 
No problem...it's the holidays and it's not as easy, trust me I know. Between all the holiday stuff and all the winter releases I have over here, my time is going to be limited as well for the next few weeks/months.
 
As for the Breverb thing, I really don't know. I only have whatever we get in Sonar, so I don't know what options we are missing if we have the paid for version. I think the verb itself has some cool possibilities, but to be honest, the timbre of it just doesn't do anything for me. That could be due to me having the limited version, but in my opinion, the verbs that come stock in Sonar smoke it.
 
Yeah I have that Ambience verb...that is a pretty good one. I'm not totally crazy about the sound of it, but for a free verb it's definitely a cool tool to have in your arsenal and I have used it on a few things.
 
Do you have the Breverb that you pay for? If you're not happy with that version, it's safe to say it's probably not for you. If you are basing your opinion on the one that came with Sonar, we both may be missing the boat on it without having the full version. Or...do we have the full version and it was the TH2 that was a partial? I really don't dive into stuff like this too much because I have my own stuff that I use that I'm completely happy with. But the little I messed with Breverb, it didn't blow me away or anything.
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi


alkie: Thanks for the listen, glad you enjoyed it. Hahaha...we're the opposite from each other. I'm a "believer" yet I don't listen to any Christian bands.

Thanks for the props on the instruments etc. Just a FYI as for some reason this may have gotten lost somewhere, but I actually wrote and created this entire arrangement from another song Philip had written. I used and re-arranged a few of his melodies as well as the lyrics and re-wrote this particular piece from the ground up.

If he ever decides to share his original version of the song, you'll hear how much different they sound from each other. His original was the inspiration, but the song movements, feel, vocal phrasing and parts in this version are completely different from the original. Of course I'm sincerely not trying to take anything away from Philip as it is his song and always will be, but I don't want anyone to think I just performed his song verbatim and sang exactly what was given. That was not the case at all and I did take part in actually writing and arranging what you hear on this version. :) Lead vocal phrasing, back up vocal harmonies, instrumentation, flow, key changes, additional parts...none of that existed in the original to the extent it does now. He DID have that going on in the original, it was just way different than this and wasn't the same flavor, parts or style.

Like he had mentioned in one of his posts, he pretty much gave me a country vibe in the original with totally different vocal phrasing and song parts. I turned it into this and produced it based on the inspiration. :)

-Danny

Well then let me say you did a Friggin Fantastic job on this ...I love it ...It is what I call my kind of MUSIC,
And I`ll just say thanks to Phillip for having such a song that you could rework into this Masterpiece. 
 
Cheers,
 
Alan

Thanks Phil and Alkie for your awesome thoughts and validation.

Caleb (the original singer) and I don't listen to Christian or Country Music (at all) ... Ironically, this was Country ... in its original incantation.  I wrote it to tribute our late Jimmyman ... trying to 'appreciate' his excellent 'Country' euphonics, etc.

But Country really isn't my thing ... and I fail singing it.  Caleb lushly sung the original quite well for Alabama folk, IMHO.  But, I deeply craved a seasoned retro-rock polar opposite of this ... and invited Danny to re-do the song with stronger emotives.  

My songs seem to crave eternal love and salvation.  And, for the rock star to remain responsible toward that: emotive, and inspired ... that was my chief concern ... 

For re-clarification on the song and lyrics ... Danny stayed verbatim on my lyrics, eliminating a couple of my original lines while not adding/changing any lyrics, iirc ... and he repeated a couple verses at the end.


He delivered and performed EVERY vocal and instrument in this one!  He started with sketches 1st, then delivered final performances.  Some of his original guitar sketches and drums remained in the final song ... so the spontaneity was not killed by excess polish.

There were no samples outside of his fingers and vox.  Necessarily, this was non-eclectic ... a lonesome one-man band!  Anything eclectic would probably have lessoned the sweet lonesome invocations of this song.  IMHO.

This song (just like the original) remains in the key of C ... cruising along the circle of 5ths, iirc (white keys, minor substitutions, etc.) ... but via Danny's personal invokations and inspired harmonies and counterpoints.  

Interestingly, IMO, These harmonies and counterpoints could even be 'mixed' back into the original gene-pool melody ... as a vibe-hybrid and harmonization ... but the vibes would clash and things would de-volve horribly.  (Hahahaha, as a physician, I myself don't believe in Darwin, but songs/genres are all 'gene pools' to me ... where songs and genres evolve and devolve ... via God, man, and/or the devil)

I'd conjecture: While this song version is almost 100% Danny, it is also almost 100% Philip's prayer, a strong percentage of God's groanings, and/or perhaps almost 100% any-lonesome-man loving his woman for so long!  

Alkie, Philz and Tony: Thanks so much for the kind words and the listen! Much appreciated!

Philip: great post!

-Danny

December 18th to May 7th... I think that speaks for itself? And it speaks volumes for the person who bumped it... 

I think Janet and Jimmy (may he rest in peace.) Is one of the best songs on the forum ever? (IMO) Maybe some think this tune from 6 months ago is one of the best songs ever? I didn't listen to it, but I'm sure it's good? I'm sure some may think this is even better than Jimmy's last song with Janet before he passed.

Here's the link to that thread in case anyone is interested...

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1980060&high=born+to+fly  

And the song;

http://www.soundclick.com...731&songID=8934449

I bought it.
     
I doubt Mooch will listen? Or ever did? Or ever will? I know he enjoys poking fun as do I, but I'm not judging? It's more of an observation. In fact, I checked "on the five pages" listed on the thread and found a comment by this poster nowhere? I'm sure he meant to comment and was simply too busy. 

Again, not judging? I'm sure he (Mooch) just has a busy schedule...  Jimmy has no schedule? He's passed... He was a great musician though.

So now that the Moocher realized that hie missed arguably a thread on which someone recently died, surely he has the kooth to go back, listen, comment and pay his respects? Surely Mooch wouldn't be someone who would disrespect the death of a fellow forum member? Would he?

It's easy to find, just search "Born to Fly" you can find it very easily if one choose to do so.

Mooch4056


What the!!!!!! How did I miss this? This is mother ****ing fantastic. I didn't kow you can sing like that. You've been holding out on me. This is tits! Awesome! 

You and me both!!!! Fantastic work guys!!...

WOW, I MISSED THIS ONE.....

way back, wtf, sorry i'm late...

either way, excellent song!

arrangments, vocals, performances, lyrics, the whole package.

this does have a dated feel to it, it's a classic rock ballad, 80's style.
but i hear a lot of other influences in it..

and strangely enough, i hear something that reminds me of Kansas, circa Leftovertures.....
and maybe a bit of Europe... 
and some christian rock arrangments...


really nice mix.


your guys make a great team