noynekker
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So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
Nice to see the Cakewalk staff all over the forum tonight ! The new version seems close. So . . . I'll ask that question:
Any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
It's just that I spend a lot of time in the Staff View, and have seen no indication that anything there has been worked on in this new version.
I'm not sayin' I think the staff view is broken, but there is certainly room for improvement / enhancement, compared to what the other competing DAWs are marketing out there.
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aries
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 04:35:49
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wizard71
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 04:40:11
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I'd like to see them integrate a Sibelius or finale package.
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lfm
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 04:49:43
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Well, as I understand Sibelius is no more. Absorbed by Avid, probably making it into PT.
Presonus bought Notion, my strongest candidate if they would have implemented midi over rewire - so you could get a similar ease of use as Staff View in Sonar really is.We will probably see it integrated in Studio One 3.0 or something.
I've been able to rewire midi over with two instances of Reaper. Works just fine - so why no notation software implemented this is a mystery. I saw something about Sibelius, but sure if that really worked.
Just select the midi tracks you want and up comes staffs for it. It's a clever approach in Sonar for staff view. So getting that as easy with external notation software through rewire with midi - what a treat.
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chuckebaby
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 09:24:20
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I heard it was removed totaly  im only kidding, I have no idea, but sooner or later I have a feeling they might go in the direction a lot of other daws are going in. let a 3rd party software do that stuff.
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DMX
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 10:22:44
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from features in official website looks like no, but i am interesting about staff view in new X3 too.
post edited by DMX - 2013/09/28 11:35:38
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cityrat
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 12:34:12
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Never a peep on the staff/notation stuff. I'm starting to feel like the island of misfit toys.... 
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sharke
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 12:38:59
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Let's face it guys. If there were one single staff view enhancement in X3 then it would have been on the features list and Cake would raised the curtain of staff view silence by now. I can't imagine them even responding to questions about it on here....would love to be proven wrong though.
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sharke
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/09/28 12:39:00
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Let's face it guys. If there were one single staff view enhancement in X3 then it would have been on the features list and Cake would raised the curtain of staff view silence by now. I can't imagine them even responding to questions about it on here....would love to be proven wrong though.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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JerryLan3
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 13:59:18
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Back in the day I did several complex midi implementations using manual input and staff view only, but that was in Pro-Audio 9. In the staff view department Sonar has broken legs and arms compared to its grandpa. Just going back to how good it was back then would be a great improvement. Put back a menu of buttons for note and rest input for quicker use.
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meh
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 18:39:43
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I still use staff view quit a-bit
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 18:44:59
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There were no changes to the Staff View. Focus was on stability, workflow, and technology like VST and ARA.
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Guitarpima
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 18:49:20
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I use the SV quite a bit as well. I don't think Finale would be integrated into Sonare. Finale is big with academia has it's onw following. On another thread, a baker, I believe, pointed out that to imtegrate another program, like Finale, it would need to have audio outs. Finale does meet that criteria AFAIK. It would be very cool though.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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Elffin
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 19:27:32
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Lets hope Gibson has enough resorces to buy out Finale's company too...
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Jimbo 88
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 21:01:07
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Guitarpima
I use the SV quite a bit as well. I don't think Finale would be integrated into Sonare. Finale is big with academia has it's onw following. On another thread, a baker, I believe, pointed out that to imtegrate another program, like Finale, it would need to have audio outs. Finale does meet that criteria AFAIK. It would be very cool though.
The Ironic thing is we don't want audio out of a notation program, we want to edit MIDI with it. I want to edit midi with notation and see a score. Having said that, X3 is a great update. If Staff view was exceptable Sonar would be the greatest piece of software EVER!
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JerryLan3
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 21:10:06
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Which brings me to a question. I am a very experienced programmer, but not with Midi. I wouldn't mind taking on a challenge if it satisfied my need for the kind of midi input I was able to do with Pro-Audio 9.
I have Finale 2012c and even that does not satisfy me because it is heavy on the charting and very light on the performing.
Is it possible to write a vst or some other type of plug-in which will allow input into a staff? How would I start such a project? It might be great!
X3 Producer, Zoom R16, Yamaha P105, Vintage Washburn Acoustic Guitar
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pbognar
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 21:13:13
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Jimbo 88
Guitarpima
I use the SV quite a bit as well. I don't think Finale would be integrated into Sonare. Finale is big with academia has it's onw following. On another thread, a baker, I believe, pointed out that to imtegrate another program, like Finale, it would need to have audio outs. Finale does meet that criteria AFAIK. It would be very cool though.
The Ironic thing is we don't want audio out of a notation program, we want to edit MIDI with it. I want to edit midi with notation and see a score.
Having said that, X3 is a great update.
If Staff view was exceptable Sonar would be the greatest piece of software EVER!
+1 Just wondering, what the focus was of all previous versions of Sonar which prevented any notation improvements in the Staff View?
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Keni
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 21:17:55
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I don't understand...
If you record a midi performance and open the staff view, you will see your performance... It might look "wrong as it's a lot more accurate/critical than most of our playing so you may want to work with some quantising before/after...
Did I misunderstand the question?
Keni
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noldar12
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 21:19:55
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I wish the situation was different, but for all intents and purposes I suspect Staff view has long since been orphaned to be nothing more than what it already is. In previous years, the ongoing issues with the Staff view were raised quite strongly, but to no avail.
It may well be that Cakewalk has determined that the costs to upgrade the notation features are greater than the revenue that fixing it would bring in. In any case it will be interesting to see what happens in the DAW world over the next few years given what has happened with both Notion, and the former Sibelius employees (Finale's situation is by no means certain either).
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JerryLan3
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 21:56:09
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Keni,
Performing as a keyboard player is probably the closest one can come to being able to realize the composer's vision, but there are a vast amount of little nuances that you need to apply in order to make strings and especially wind instruments sound real. If we do not use them then we lose the styles and beauty that these musicians train for years to achieve.
The midi specification really does have most if not all of the features which allow us to approximate these nuances. Unfortunately we have not as programmers envisioned user interfaces which allow composers to realize these performances.
X3 Producer, Zoom R16, Yamaha P105, Vintage Washburn Acoustic Guitar
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harmony gardens
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 22:30:25
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noldar12
I wish the situation was different, but for all intents and purposes I suspect Staff view has long since been orphaned to be nothing more than what it already is. In previous years, the ongoing issues with the Staff view were raised quite strongly, but to no avail.
It may well be that Cakewalk has determined that the costs to upgrade the notation features are greater than the revenue that fixing it would bring in. In any case it will be interesting to see what happens in the DAW world over the next few years given what has happened with both Notion, and the former Sibelius employees (Finale's situation is by no means certain either).
But the same thing happened when people wanted the groove matrix and we got that. ;)
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InstrEd
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 22:43:03
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Funny thing is Presonus has Notion now and I bet the next major release will have staff view in it.
DP8 is on windows and has working staff view.
And as Jimbo88 said we really want it for MIDI not audio work in Sonar. The ones who can use it
understand.
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backwoods
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 22:43:51
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noynekker
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 23:07:09
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noldar12
I wish the situation was different, but for all intents and purposes I suspect Staff view has long since been orphaned to be nothing more than what it already is. In previous years, the ongoing issues with the Staff view were raised quite strongly, but to no avail.
It may well be that Cakewalk has determined that the costs to upgrade the notation features are greater than the revenue that fixing it would bring in. In any case it will be interesting to see what happens in the DAW world over the next few years given what has happened with both Notion, and the former Sibelius employees (Finale's situation is by no means certain either).
Perhaps the marketplace appetite for DAWs having Staff Notation is slowly fading, and new approaches / trends to composing music may be moving into the PRV and looper realms. With all these notation giants changing or altogether disappearing on the scene, who knows what will happen there. Cakewalk's recent focus has been on plugin technology, mixing + recording, and workflow ideals. I've been using Cakewalk product's a very long time, and have recently peeked at what their competitors are doing with some of their Staff View enhancements. I can't say I was blown away by anything amazing out there in Staff DAW world, but there are some very interesting Staff based compositional tools beginning to be developed. Seems that Cake's bakers never get too far behind in many areas, and I hope they never misjudge the amount of musicians still leaning toward the Staff View usage. Yes . . . Sonar X3b ROCKs even without Staff View enhancements.
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Jon Bryson
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 23:13:20
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Love Sonar X3. If they could upgrade the staff view such that I could work out some of my parts there and have it enter MIDI controller info for a wide variety of expressions I would be ecstatic. And of course fix a few outstanding issues like the triplets not displaying correctly.
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Jon Bryson
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/08 23:22:48
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noynekker
Perhaps the marketplace appetite for DAWs having Staff Notation is slowly fading, and new approaches / trends to composing music may be moving into the PRV and looper realms.
With all these notation giants changing or altogether disappearing on the scene, who knows what will happen there.
Cakewalk's recent focus has been on plugin technology, mixing + recording, and workflow ideals.
I've been using Cakewalk product's a very long time, and have recently peeked at what their competitors are doing with some of their Staff View enhancements.
I can't say I was blown away by anything amazing out there in Staff DAW world, but there are some very interesting Staff based compositional tools beginning to be developed.
Seems that Cake's bakers never get too far behind in many areas, and I hope they never misjudge the amount of musicians still leaning toward the Staff View usage.
Yes . . . Sonar X3b ROCKs even without Staff View enhancements.
I have to agree with this to an extent. I'm hard pressed to get excited about anything I've seen in the notation world in the last few years, probably because I'm not interested in printed output as much as a way to work out parts and then be able to massage the performance into something I like with the tools a DAW offers. Notion looks like it wants to be a DAW, and maybe it will be when wrapped in to StudioOne if that's what they do. I've gotten to where I live in the PRV view and have learned to use it somewhat similarly to notation as far as part writing, but I'd still like to have more options in the staff view.
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Sidroe
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/09 07:18:37
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Whenever I use the staff view in Cake products it brings to mind a scene in the movie "The Alamo". The one with Dennis Quaid and Billy Bob Thornton. There is a scene where Jim Bowie and Col. Travis are discussing the imminent death they are facing at the hands of Santa Anna's troops. Travis and Bowie talk about the things they might have done if things were different. Travis turns to him and says,"I think I shall have to settle for the man I am now."
I guess I shall have to be happy with Notion 4 ReWired to Sonar. I like using Notion on it's own.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/09 07:39:36
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Perhaps new sugar daddy Gibson could buy Sibelius from Avid and hand it to the Cake people :)
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cityrat
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/09 07:47:45
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Focus was on stability, workflow, and technology like VST and ARA.
Even though I would like some improvements in staff, I cannot argue with the focus on the above. That was definitely the right priority IMHO. I actually find (for what I do) the staff to be pretty usable. There are some 'workflow' improvements and issues that I'd like fixed (chord box bug etc) but still. I do hope that there are improvements, but I'm not sure I want a whole "Notion" or "Sibelius" or "Finale" type integration. I like having things integrated wo having a whole additional level of software complexity (but that's just my needs).
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JerryLan3
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Re: So . . any new updates at all in X3 for Staff View ?
2013/10/09 12:01:05
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So, does anyone have a link to documentation on how to build your own plugin? I would like to give it a shot. I envision a multi-staff user interface with the ability to control every midi controller data element.
I envision the ability to select groups of melody notes and adding elements which make the transitions between the notes more natural such as eliminating the attack like a flute player or violin player during a smooth stroke. (legato). I would convert notes to pitch wheel changes to eliminate the attacks.
I would have a menu of buttons with durations and midi effects making manual input faster.
I just need to find specifications on how to build a plugin to do this.
X3 Producer, Zoom R16, Yamaha P105, Vintage Washburn Acoustic Guitar
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