Etostone
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Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
I am wondering , cause still can't find any real audio performance differences , apart from the graphical interfaces and new way of doing things.
Is X1 optimized for new computer standards like 64 bit Win 7 ?
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BlixYZ
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 09:30:02
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i can only tell you my own experience. i never had any serious issues with 8.5 but i did have an occassional crash. x1 has been the most stable and solid feeling daw i've ever used. never hiccups or crashes. i haven't crashed yet in just over a month of use.
i am impressed with the low latency for playing soft synths.
i find that the cpu usage is slightly better than 8.5 but i was already impressed with the cpu usage in 8.5.
there are some bugs that need addressing but for my use, none are very significant (audiosnap and low res monitor issues)
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 09:35:51
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Never used 8.5 long enough to comment but find X1 less glitchy than 8.3 which would drop out quite easily.
X1 will drop out occasionally if I'm swapping screensets frantically but other than that it keeps on going although the screen tracking will drop behind reality for a short time. I also have just one project that takes forever to save and that can provoke a dropout.
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John T
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 09:54:56
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Etostone
Is X1 optimized for new computer standards like 64 bit Win 7 ?
Absolutely, but so are the previous few versions. This is definitely one are where Cakewalk have been way ahead of the curve.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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g_randybrown
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:17:11
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... am impressed with the low latency for playing soft synths.
i find that the cpu usage is slightly better than 8.5 but i was already impressed with the cpu usage in 8.5.
Hey fanboi don't post this sort of thing!!!
JK, like FBB I went from 8.3 to X1 and see a remarkable difference in performance...ie using a 5 year old dual core laptop we couldn't run True Pianos in a live situation...with X1 we can use not only True Pianos but Session Drummer 3!
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:17:54
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8.5.3 is presently the best version of Sonar and probably will continue to be for the next year or so.
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John T
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:20:26
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When taking people's advice on this, bear in mind that some posters - 10Ten for example - don't actually have x1.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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guitartrek
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:24:20
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They did say that they further optmized the audio engine - specifically for win7. I'm expriencing basically zero dropouts and lockups. I'm using Win7 64bit and the engine seems more solid than before with my 8.5.3 32bit DAW. I've read a couple threads now by some users that have had zero problems during very long sessions. Of course there are a lot of bugs in the software that add some frustration, and there are those that are having issues I think with specific hardware. Aside from the bugs, the engine seems to been advanced for me.
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:24:48
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John T
When taking people's advice on this, bear in mind that some posters - 10Ten for example - don't actually have x1.
Since I do own X1 and have said so many times, I guess you have perfectly illustrated your point.
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:27:49
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guitartrek
They did say that they further optmized the audio engine - specifically for win7. I'm expriencing basically zero dropouts and lockups. I'm using Win7 64bit and the engine seems more solid than before with my 8.5.3 32bit DAW. I've read a couple threads now by some users that have had zero problems during very long sessions. Of course there are a lot of bugs in the software that add some frustration, and there are those that are having issues I think with specific hardware. Aside from the bugs, the engine seems to been advanced for me.
The problem is that none of that means anything because people's projects are different. I have a tendency to abuse everything and others think that 1 or 2 tracks at 30ms is a big deal.
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BlixYZ
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 10:43:39
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my track counts are high, plugins used with reckless abandon, synths i usually freeze as soon as possible. my projects are not small or simple and my work pace can be somewhat frantic.
i wont call u a liar for saying that u r having issues with x1 if u dont call me a liar for saying i dont ;)
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Sidroe
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 11:45:02
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I run Asus i5,Windows 7, 8 gigs Ram, MOTU 24i/o. My clients have asked me what I changed as far as my playback. They are astounded when I tell them I just upgraded software. There is a definite difference in my qaulity of playback since moving from 32 bit XP to Windows 7. High track counts that used to be rather high in cpu usage in 8.5 are now barely breaking a sweat in X1a. All this in ASIO driver mode at 32-64 samples. Tons of plugs,too.
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stratman70
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 11:54:55
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I have also mentioned a few times that I can now run and adjust the LP64 EQ and Compx no problems.
They both crashed 853 everytime I tried to use them.
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guitartrek
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 11:54:58
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10Ten
guitartrek
They did say that they further optmized the audio engine - specifically for win7. I'm expriencing basically zero dropouts and lockups. I'm using Win7 64bit and the engine seems more solid than before with my 8.5.3 32bit DAW. I've read a couple threads now by some users that have had zero problems during very long sessions. Of course there are a lot of bugs in the software that add some frustration, and there are those that are having issues I think with specific hardware. Aside from the bugs, the engine seems to been advanced for me.
The problem is that none of that means anything because people's projects are different. I have a tendency to abuse everything and others think that 1 or 2 tracks at 30ms is a big deal.
10Ten - I can appreciate your view point on this, and when you say that "none of that means anything" I feel the need to respond. When someone is looking for feedback all I can report is my own experience and judgements I make from reading on the forum. My projects probably average 25 to 35 tracks with a lot of plugins. I have read reports from two power users in particular who have been pleasantly suprised at the reliabilty of the audio engine after spending 8 or more hours in sessions. I also tend to abuse the software. For example, when recording audio takes, if I blow a take, I'll Undo, Rewind, and Record - really fast. Previously in Sonar typing these commands too fast would freeze or crash Sonar maybe 1 out of 10 times. This never happens to me anymore in X1 with 64bit. It may be a 64bit thing more than Sonar, but to me, it is a big improvement.
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 12:04:12
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guitartrek
10Ten
The problem is that none of that means anything because people's projects are different. I have a tendency to abuse everything and others think that 1 or 2 tracks at 30ms is a big deal.
10Ten - I can appreciate your view point on this, and when you say that "none of that means anything" I feel the need to respond. When someone is looking for feedback all I can report is my own experience and judgements I make from reading on the forum. My projects probably average 25 to 35 tracks with a lot of plugins. I have read reports from two power users in particular who have been pleasantly suprised at the reliabilty of the audio engine after spending 8 or more hours in sessions.
I also tend to abuse the software. For example, when recording audio takes, if I blow a take, I'll Undo, Rewind, and Record - really fast. Previously in Sonar typing these commands too fast would freeze or crash Sonar maybe 1 out of 10 times. This never happens to me anymore in X1 with 64bit. It may be a 64bit thing more than Sonar, but to me, it is a big improvement.
Kind of my point. What does time have to with it? I generally leave Sonar open for weeks at a time and it never crashes. It also never crashes just playing audio or undoing something. Without actually knowing what someone is doing for that 8 hours we know nothing about X1's stability. 8.5.3 does not crash on me. Rock projects start with 20+ tracks. Other stuff has hundreds of little pieces of audio that are brutal to run and worse to save. I hate to freeze and I do tons of crap on the fly. Sonar's audio engine hates me, but it never has crashed much. When someone comes here and says "I had a great session with 8 tracks and X1 only crashed once), it just confuses me.
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JClosed
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 12:16:59
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Well personally I think X1 is one of the best steps made by Cakewalk. I have used Sonar from version 6 (also bought my first Power! book, and it helped my way trough). I must say I really like the Skylight approach. For me it works...
I can understand it wont work for other people. Sadly for them there is no way back to the "old" Sonar version. They can stay with 8.5 for the coming years tough. Nothing wrong with that. It is capable software that does it job, but there wont be any improvements or updates any longer. That's the choice you can make...
As it been said many times before. At this stage X1 has some serous bugs. For me, however, those bugs are not critical at this moment. It is nice to see the repairs are on the way. I think X1 will improve over time and at the end will be a stronger piece of software that 8.5 is today.
I think those € 99,- (boxed version in Europe) I spend was good buy. For the price of two games I got a new Sonar version that just "clicked" for me.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 13:07:51
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Without actually knowing what someone is doing for that 8 hours we know nothing about X1's stability.
Short of installing live video cam feeds, you're going to have to take comments at face value.  I've done numerous (long - as in many hours) recording/editing sessions using X1... without any problems. The productions have been pretty straight ahead pop/rock/blues tunes. Some using soft-synths... others strickly audio... In one case, we were doing pre-production for a tribute band. In this scenario, we'd layout the original tune, map the tempo to the original tune (sometimes involving many tempo changes), then overdub parts the band wants to "fly in" at gigs. The scope of these projects has been in the 32-48-track range. Nothing super complex... and no 200+ track epics Like guitartrek mentioned... In the process of recording (many fast takes/punch-ins... where the transport is being 'slammed'), X1 was rock-solid. Same for the editing process (comping tracks, cross-fades, fades, slip-editing tops/tails, etc). TBH, I thought that working with many tempo changes might cause problems in X1. Lucky for me, that wasn't the case. We were able to lock X1's tempo to existing audio tracks (sometimes tedious - but tight end results)... and X1 didn't bulk. For me... (working at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size) X1 has been solid for what I'd call "straight up" recording/editing/mixing. Granted, I don't typically use the Step Sequencer, Vvocal, or AudioSnap. I can shoot iPhone video as proof... but I'd rather not waste the time/effort.
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2011/01/23 15:02:41
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siris1977
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 13:13:23
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imo yes X1 is trying to take advantage of the new super machines capibilities. 8.5 runs well with win7 64 but sonar has been ahread of its time for years anyway. we are just used to being ahead of the curve. X1 will be the first of its kind (when its finished) to take advantage of the i7 12gb monsters and basically render protools HD dead in the water...
Hd was so expencive because of that 003 interface that let the soundcard do the work not to bog the cpu down. now that machines have cought up and can not only run in full hd wihtout dropouts, but be streaming netflix to your bored a$$ girlfriend while you put on your injuneering hat.
that's why you see HD at rock bottom price and Protools on a thumbdrive.
lucky for us just like sonar is the father of 64 double pre. The FINISHED X1 is going to be the "David with hand gernades" as many bigger "pro" studios upgrade machines and loose the aging Hd rack gear for more modern, faster, more accurate machines that turn a modest home studio into rooms that would easily rival the major labels from 5 years ago.
my 32 bit dual core machine has 4 gb ram which cost $399 a stick when I first got them. She was screamin with a massive 101gb hard drive..
my new quad core 64bit with 8gb and 3.5 tb storage is about 4 years newer and the old machine feels like a 28.8 modem. (the orgional dial up for you young buckaroos) heh
Phenom Quad core, 8gb ram, 3.5tb of Fine Music Storage Vault Under Armed Guard w/ UAV support (air-hog chopper), set of MA-15D, Delta 10-10 pci w/interface, m-box 3 pro, projectmix I/O, Metal Pop Filters, Two SKB cases Full of Suck Removal Buttons, Cedar Walls, Stripper Pole (helps with mastering & block priceing) more stuff i'm to lazy to add. ;) P.S. good Memory foam is freakin awesome.
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Etostone
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 13:23:37
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Thank you everyone for posting your thoughts and experiences.
First thing I have noticed with Sonar X1 , is that while opening a project that I was working with Sonar 8.5.3
the drums were sounding lower in volume.
I didn't change anything at all. I think it might be their new compression or limiting settings by default.
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stickman393
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 14:06:31
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The following comments apply to both 8.5 and X1: - it's an excellent DAW that supports modern Windows operating systems
- you may experience dropouts or glitches, or not
- you may discover bugs that impact your workflow, but there are usually work-arounds
- If you upgrade or change your hardware, you will most likely experience different types of bugs or glitches, either to a greater or lesser amount.
- There is a lot of good advice here on the forums, along with some less good. It can take a while to tell the difference. What works for some folks does not work for others. You will end up experimenting.
And finally: - Whatever your experience with X1, should you choose to use it, it will change either for the better or worse with the known pending point release X1b, expected in February.
- If you chose 8.5, don't plan on any patches in the future.
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deswind
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 14:12:37
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Jim - are you running Win 7 64 bit? Thanks,
AB
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Roseberry
Without actually knowing what someone is doing for that 8 hours we know nothing about X1's stability.
Short of installing live video cam feeds, you're going to have to take comments at face value.
I've done numerous (long - as in many hours) recording/editing sessions using X1... without any problems.
The productions have been pretty straight ahead pop/rock/blues tunes. Some using soft-synths... others strickly audio...
In one case, we were doing pre-production for a tribute band. In this scenario, we'd layout the original tune, map the tempo to the original tune (sometimes involving many tempo changes), then overdub parts the band wants to "fly in" at gigs.
The scope of these projects has been in the 32-48-track range.
Nothing super complex... and no 200+ track epics
Like guitartrek mentioned...
In the process on recording (many fast takes/punch-ins... where the transport is being 'slammed'), X1 was rock-solid. Same for the editing process (comping tracks, cross-fades, fades, slip-editing tops/tails, etc). TBH, I thought that working with many tempo changes might cause problems in X1. Lucky for me, that wasn't the case. We were able to lock X1's tempo to existing audio tracks (sometimes tedious - but tight end results)... and X1 didn't bulk.
For me... (working at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size)
X1 has been solid for what I'd call "straight up" recording/editing/mixing.
Granted, I don't typically use the Step Sequencer, Vvocal, or AudioSnap.
I can shoot iPhone video as proof... but I'd rather not waste the time/effort.
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 14:40:43
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Jim Roseberry
Without actually knowing what someone is doing for that 8 hours we know nothing about X1's stability.
Short of installing live video cam feeds, you're going to have to take comments at face value.
I've done numerous (long - as in many hours) recording/editing sessions using X1... without any problems.
The productions have been pretty straight ahead pop/rock/blues tunes. Some using soft-synths... others strickly audio...
In one case, we were doing pre-production for a tribute band. In this scenario, we'd layout the original tune, map the tempo to the original tune (sometimes involving many tempo changes), then overdub parts the band wants to "fly in" at gigs.
The scope of these projects has been in the 32-48-track range.
Nothing super complex... and no 200+ track epics
Like guitartrek mentioned...
In the process on recording (many fast takes/punch-ins... where the transport is being 'slammed'), X1 was rock-solid. Same for the editing process (comping tracks, cross-fades, fades, slip-editing tops/tails, etc). TBH, I thought that working with many tempo changes might cause problems in X1. Lucky for me, that wasn't the case. We were able to lock X1's tempo to existing audio tracks (sometimes tedious - but tight end results)... and X1 didn't bulk.
For me... (working at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size)
X1 has been solid for what I'd call "straight up" recording/editing/mixing.
Granted, I don't typically use the Step Sequencer, Vvocal, or AudioSnap.
I can shoot iPhone video as proof... but I'd rather not waste the time/effort.
What I meant was that "I just used X1 for X hours" isn't really proof of anything. You provide enough detail for people to make a comparison to their projects.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 14:44:07
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Am I understanding correctly? Those of us that X1 works for now have to prove it? 8 hour videos coming up......... 
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 14:55:51
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FastBikerBoy
Am I understanding correctly? Those of us that X1 works for now have to prove it?
8 hour videos coming up.........
I haven't seen you understand anything correctly, ever. You may do what ever you feel like to prove X1 works for you, I just said some details about the projects would be nice. I can leave X1 on for the next three years, but it won't be proof of how it works on one of your projects. Details are needed for you to make that comparison.
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Jrehanek
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 14:56:31
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I'm gonna have to agree with your statement, except:
8.5.3 was the best including x1, until I installed x1. Now 8.5.3 is having issues as well. I've uninstalled x1. now every time i pull up the help file in 8.5.3 and run a help query, the audio slows down. i have to go to the options/audio dialogue and click or unclick jut about anything and the audio goes back to normal. Nudging casuses the same problem. WTF Cakewalk? it's not like you couldn;t have found a whole bunch of us to Beta test this piece of crap before you release it!
So now I'm not only a bit peeved that CW released a defective product, I'm peeved that it's infected a superior product with it's disease. AND i am quite surprised that CW would further risk it's reputation by continuing to market this junk.
It's time to pull the product off the shelf, admit that it was a mistake to release it, and fix it. I was just going to request a refund (sent that email this morning) now i'm wondering if i'll ever be able to use this program again!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 15:00:01
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10Ten
FastBikerBoy
Am I understanding correctly? Those of us that X1 works for now have to prove it?
8 hour videos coming up.........
I haven't seen you understand anything correctly, ever. You may do what ever you feel like to prove X1 works for you, I just said some details about the projects would be nice. I can leave X1 on for the next three years, but it won't be proof of how it works on one of your projects. Details are needed for you to make that comparison.
Hi Terry - Probably 'cos I never do understand anything correctly, I am a simple soul and find most things difficult. Please feel free to ignore me in future.
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Guest
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 15:02:51
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FastBikerBoy
10Ten
FastBikerBoy
Am I understanding correctly? Those of us that X1 works for now have to prove it?
8 hour videos coming up.........
I haven't seen you understand anything correctly, ever. You may do what ever you feel like to prove X1 works for you, I just said some details about the projects would be nice. I can leave X1 on for the next three years, but it won't be proof of how it works on one of your projects. Details are needed for you to make that comparison.
Hi Terry - Probably 'cos I never do understand anything correctly, I am a simple soul and find most things difficult. Please feel free to ignore me in future.
I have no idea who this Terry is, but I will consider your suggestion though you are unintentionally funny quite a bit.
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Etostone
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 15:26:37
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Why just Sonar doesn't come out with it's own hardware setup ? including sound card and whole PC system ?
They will have no excuses then :)
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 15:29:14
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Jim - are you running Win 7 64 bit? Thanks, AB Yes, I'm running Win7x64 with a MOTU 896HD. X1 runs well on both my i7-950 and new 4.5GHz SandyBridge 2600k machines.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 or X1 ? Which is better ?
2011/01/23 15:34:01
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Why just Sonar doesn't come out with it's own hardware setup ? including sound card and whole PC system ? They will have no excuses then :) FWIW, You have this exact scenario with Logic and a Mac. Yet, if you read their support forums... it looks remarkably similar.
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