Scott Lee

Music Miscreant


And Ladysmith Black Mambazo want to use the garritan orchestra? 
And Madeleine Peyroux wants to use a NI New York grand. 

Oh, sorry, there's only your kind of music, right? :-) 

Actually I work for CBS studios in Studio City California. Our Todd A/O sound stage (where many movie/tv orchestral tracks were scored and recorded) was shut down due to home studio scoring tracks (which also reminds me that Sony Studio of which I do work for as well in culiver city california has also limited its scoring stages to very few sessions). I think its fair to assume "common" wasn't out of context MM regardless of genre.

Rock, dance, pop, country? I suspect most will also have a sequenced drum part, piano line overlay after the bands left, some humanized lush strings. if it quacks like a beat maker, its probably a beat maker.

Best,

Ah, my dear Scott, the demise of the major studio due to the DAW is something I'm well aware of. I've been a producer for 35 rears & over the past 10 I've seen so many of my favourites have to close... The Townhouse, Jacobs, Chocolate Factory, Roundhouse, Eden, & Ocean Way losing complex 2... the list goes on. Some, thankfully, still hang on, but by the skin of their teeth, like Rockfeild & Parr Street. 
Granted, the DAW isn't the only reason, but it's the main reason. 


Anyway, it appears we live in different worlds, as well as continents (most of the time). 
The last two albums I produced required no DAW 'embellisments' whatsoever. Even after the artists had left ;-)  
It was simply 'band' music.  

It's a big world out there. Lots of different things. Just open your eyes.  

50% of my work is done like this. 
 
80% of my work is either for record labels, publishers or managers. 


Oh, & Sonar is my home DAW, used for writing, where I use the beat makers, as you so eloquently refer to them, constantly.    


One last thing... Madeleine Peyroux & Ladysmith Black Mambazo, any idea who I was referring to? Seriously? Because, honestly, no beat maker, Scott. Not in your wildest dreams. Not that you directly said there was, but you did kinda infer, didn't you ;-) Ah, makes me smile. 

Crush


I personally believe that American engineers are the best in the world.

The Germans have historically been great inventors and have won the majority of Nobel Prizes I believe until the mid 1900's.

When it comes to software development, it's most important that the project is being led by Americans and the developers are basically not outsourced from the 3rd world.

Basically, if this was a German company heading the project, I think you would have seen the software come out a lot different.

Germans seem to like 'criptic process' and millions of mouse clicks. Germans like having a dozens of 'mouse tools'. The more the better. Makes the program look more powerful and well engineered. Supposedly if you get a disposable water cooler cup in Germany, there is 'ml' marking points on the side of it. As a home beer brewer myself, the German have all these crazy laws regarding beer purity etc. How high the glass is filled from the top.. all this crazy, criptic stuff.

Americans prefer 1 universal mouse button that does it all.

I think that's the big difference between the two.

(the 3rd world engineers have no place in this discussion and should never be associated with these sorts of projects. It doesn't matter who's heading the project it will turn into a disaster.. familiarity of X1.)

Most of the great American achievements in the past 100 years have been because of German Scientists. The atom bomb, the flying wing, moon landings, and our highway system have all been due to the achievements of German engineers. What is wrong with mL markings on a cup? Do you know ASIO is a German design? There's a reason why German cars are usually the safest on the road too. Again, you're beating the same dead horse that SONAR is being outsourced to the 3rd word. You're simply wrong.

Those beer purity laws are not crazy. They are there for a reason. The shape/size/volume/pour of the glass impacts the beer taste. The Germans take beer very seriously and most Americans simply do not have the knowledge to understand the finer characteristics and complexities of a good brew. It's akin to telling a Frenchman all sparkling wine is champagne.

You are painting broad brush strokes of what you think is a specifically culture based behavior. I'll tell you I don't prefer a universal mouse button that does everything. Does that make me un-American? I think not, as my family was here before it was these 'United States'. What you are really saying is you prefer a simple program to use. Not all of us are threatened or have our creativity stopped by complexities and you're just perpetuating the stereo type that Americans are unintelligent and crude.

I'm not going to say you're a racist as others have, because you aren't. You are showing shades of Xenophobia.

BEATZM1D10T


Those beer purity laws are not crazy. They are there for a reason. The shape/size/volume/pour of the glass impacts the beer taste. The Germans take beer very seriously and most Americans simply do not have the knowledge to understand the finer characteristics and complexities of a good brew. It's akin to telling a Frenchman all sparkling wine is champagne.

Not to distract from your other good points but these are two examples of national commercial protectionism and have nothing odo with engineering, quality or even taste. :-)

UnderTow

UnderTow

BEATZM1D10T


Those beer purity laws are not crazy. They are there for a reason. The shape/size/volume/pour of the glass impacts the beer taste. The Germans take beer very seriously and most Americans simply do not have the knowledge to understand the finer characteristics and complexities of a good brew. It's akin to telling a Frenchman all sparkling wine is champagne.

Not to distract from your other good points but these are two examples of national commercial protectionism and have nothing odo with engineering, quality or even taste. :-)

UnderTow

No, the shape, and style of the glass and the amount of air above the beer before it hits your mouth/nose will change the taste of the beverage. Same thing as having white or red wine glasses. The shape of the glass will swirl the beer differently and it will impact the taste.

You're not supposed to drink a pills out of a Belgian glass.

It's a science. There's a good reason why breweries will pair glasses for a specific brew or tell you to serve it at a specific temp. It tastes how it was intended to.

BEATZM1D10T

No, the shape, and style of the glass and the amount of air above the beer before it hits your mouth/nose will change the taste of the beverage. Same thing as having white or red wine glasses. The shape of the glass will swirl the beer differently and it will impact the taste.

You're not supposed to drink a pills out of a Belgian glass.

It's a science. There's a good reason why breweries will pair glasses for a specific brew or tell you to serve it at a specific temp. It tastes how it was intended to.

But the Reinheitsgebot laws are about the production of the beer and the laws about champagne are about the production method and the region in which one can make champagne and call it such. The laws are not about the glasses.

Btw, pils is not specific to germany. Many pilsener beers are Belgian or Dutch or from other countries. And there is no "Belgian glass". Each brewery has a glass for each beer (well nearly) and there are thousands of Belgian beers.

UnderTow

"And anyway, Cakewalk is Japanese!"

And Presonus isnt Cakewalk! See how we can do this undertow? I spoke with them recently and again they have engineers on both sides of the fence working on development. But Im not trying to sell you on anything, just was expressing my feelings about the software workflow.

"Madeleine Peyroux & Ladysmith Black Mambazo, any idea who I was referring to? Seriously? Because, honestly, no beat maker, Scott. Not in your wildest dreams. Not that you directly said there was, but you did kinda infer, didn't you ;-)"

Actually I didn't if you re read my posts again. I spoke from my experiences in the recording industry never about any artist you mentioned. I never stated that a Jazz artist or any other artist would not have or have anything more then live takes. What I did say originally that you so kindly replied  to was in this industry it is "common" for producers to inject a sequenced piano line, strings, or beat make. This doesnt make them any less of a musician. Simple as that!

Anyways gentlemen, good luck I have music to make today.

Best Regards,

dooooooeeee

J.O.P


Oh man this thread...

Thanks, ol pal.  I needed that

" for all forms of contemporary music was inaccurate. Simple as that. Go and have a look. "

How did my word "common" convert to "all forms" of music?

Again, layering strings, a piano part, or beat making is common in the industry.

Lets just agree to disagree. I dont want to keep repeating this. Thanks

Best,







 

I'd like to know how many "3rd world engineers" you've worked with

Too many unfortunately.

Like you have to back up and realize where the mindset of these developers are. There are cows wondering in the middle of the street holding up traffic. No one is allowed to touch the cow.

These people have no concept of what a credit card is. They don't know what a vending machine is.

There is no department store where you can buy mouth wash or deodorant. They have no idea what that is.

All the IT schools are state sponsored where you are pretty much learning computers on paper - not actual computers.

They wipe themselves after a #2 with their left hand, and eat with their right (this is the unspoken reality of the third world - lack of toilet paper)

And you are expecting these people to develop Sonar X1????

Not that I dislike these people as they have very strong qualities like how they stick up for one another, stay faithful to one another, their national pride, etc. etc. You need to realize that the third world is of an alien culture to our own. You simply cannot expect these people to be an extension of the first world, white collar work place. It just doesn't work. It never has and never will.

The guy from cakewalk said 'our stateside developers are working on fixing the bugs'. That implies that yes there is an outsourced team. At Microsoft, there are NO outsourced teams doing the actual development on Windows and Office. There is a bit of development happening in Malaysia on their Windows CE but that's it. (they handled the handwriting recognition).

Call me a racist and xenophobe or whatever that's good for you.

These people simply don't belong on these sorts of projects. That's just my opinion and most people in the real world agree with me.

keith


Yes you've just confirmed: a xenophobe and a racist. And clueless as well, at least as far as the "real world" is concerned.

No actually,

Only the far left, label painting, authoritarian types run around calling people racist and xenophobes. People these days see through types like yourself very easily. You guys had a lot more power just 10 years ago. Recently though things have changed.

I'm still waiting for you guys to bring up Hitler. I know you want to.. I'm just waiting.

Only the far left, label painting, authoritarian types run around calling people racist and xenophobes. People these days see through types like yourself very easily. You guys had a lot more power just 10 years ago. Recently though things have changed.

I'm still waiting for you guys to bring up Hitler. I know you want to.. I'm just waiting.

 
 
..wow.

Huh? I do...trying to convey my astonishment.

So we start off with X1 and we end up with Hitler. Nice thread. For the record I am going with Indiana Jones "Nazis, I hate these guys".

"All the IT schools are state sponsored where you are pretty much learning computers on paper - not actual computers. "

ROFL,

Actually many of them went to school in the US, UK etc, and then returned for better opportunities, IE economies growing at 8-10% a year instead of the likely 2% here at home.   And let's not mention how much lower the cost of living is.

I don't think you really have any idea how international EVERYTHING is now days.

just to funny.