Ok........... I concede you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I've already said I'd like to see some customisation possible, and it's even been hinted at elsewhere that his will come in time but you seem to want a return to V8 and before.

If you really feel that way, I think you're in for a disappointment though and while I try and stay away from threads like this the "I want 8.5 back" type threads do get a little weary reading after a while, which is why I've commented on this one. Some things are true, some things are a matter of opinion but statements that suggest the smart tool has lost functionality over previous tools is just incorrect.

If it is true post a list of functions available from a single tool in V8.x as I did for the smart tool and I'll stay quiet, apologise,  and then even agree with you. Facts have a way of working like that - you can't argue with them.

I'm still intrigued at what you can do in 8.5 that can't be done (usually easier) within X1. Here's some advice, lift the blindfold a little, adjust the blinkers, and at least have a look at the new world before burying your head.

FastBikerBoy


 
 ..If it is true post a list of functions available from a single tool in V8.x as I did for the smart tool and I'll stay quiet, apologise,  and then even agree with you. Facts have a way of working like that - you can't argue with them. 

I'm still intrigued at what you can do in 8.5 that can't be done (usually easier) within X1. Here's some advice, lift the blindfold a little, adjust the blinkers, and at least have a look at the new world before burying your head.

...come on biker... let's be serious... this sounds like you're really twisting the truth, eventually...

...troubles and misses in X1's new interface have been described EXTENSIVELY here and there, by me and others.... even on this same thread...
so i think you are the one possibly burying your head....

...by the way, I'm having a look at the "new world"... as I've been using X1 since I upgraded, December 2010...!!!

...and thus it is my personal experience that suggests (to me) that X1 is VERY MUCH slower than 8.5......  


...until next time...

regards.

trimph1


I still think the fully customisable interface would be an excellent idea....

Just think about it. Totally customisable to YOUR workflow. Not someone else's. Totally capable of being used in whatever configuration YOU need....and then some. Dare I use the word....INCLUSIVE???

Myself? I am a mouse person...I am not a typewriter person. I've used a mouse since they were first made...why? Because it was quicker or one thing..another? because I may have my guitar here..try typing with a guitar in your way....I really am not that organized a person to know when I need to put the guitar down... 

...

 
 
...I'm with you on these points, trimph1..... 
 
...and that has been ONE of our "arguments" since X1 took away the chance to customize ANY tool wherever in the interface.... a huge loss in comparison with 8.5................
 
That was ONE of the peculiarities that actually made SONAR unique among DAWs..........
 
 
I understand there are people happy with X1, but what THEY seem to NOT get-accept is that, likewise, there are OTHERS preferring by far the workflow system up to 8.5, and reasons have been largely given and explained.................. 
 
 
so long.......
 
 

 

to John T:

...as often, instead of paying attention to arguments, you mind about how people type, as if you were entitled to jump in and "dictate" rules, which you are not, dear john...

...therefore... you must be the only one getting "off topic" here (and elsewhere...)

Read carefully... youll'find "real" arguments to discuss....

...And, sorry, I apologise in advance for I won't reply any longer to any possible continuation from you about this... I've honestly grown fed up with your pointless "from above" sarcasm.....

Have a nice day... really.

I still think that one should be able to customize everything on this DAW...why is there this argument in the first place?

And besides...I, too, type this way.

Now we are getting into typing correctly mode?

John T


Well, no. I mocked how you type, and I pointed out what was wrong with your line of argument.

 
 
 
 
...but you are not requested/supposed to... you see, it's not your business, nor your job here........................
 
 
...far as the argument, on my part, I don't think I'm wrong.... the topic from the OP is about the "destruction of the PRV", and one of the main points was that some of us find that the new "smart tool" doesn't feel neither efficient nor fast when compared to previous "Tool Bars", one of the reasons being that with the latter EVERYTHING was customizable to be available at first sight, with just a single click....
 
...which, is not off-topic at all.... 
 
The fact that there are people NOT appreciating the workflow system in X1 seems to bother some of the enthusiasts in a childish way....
 
You have to face it, guys.... we don't have to find X1 better than (real) SONAR at all costs... indeed there are people very much disappointed, and we/they have given a lot of actual reasons......
 
...seek and you'll find......
 
 
...one last thing, if I'm allowed....
...only to those thinking that we don't love X1 because we don't really use it.... WRONG!
The criticism often comes after extensive and now long time use of our once beloved DAW... the more we use it... the more it proves slow, time-consuming, ugly, thus un-inspiring.... at least that's my (and other's...) personal experience....
 
That said, good for those happy with X1.... but find your peace... there's a relevant part of customers that don't agree.............
 
Now I gotta leave, mates.... wish ya the best music making...

trimph1


I still think that one should be able to customize everything on this DAW...why is there this argument in the first place?

And besides...I, too, type this way.

Now we are getting into typing correctly mode?

 
 
 
..thanks, Trimph1.......
 
...that should be the right mood............. 
 
 

gothic.angel


...just think of all features now hidden within menus and or multi-level smart tool...   es. magnifier, meter settings, add-track/s dialogue, split tool, mute tool, draw-envelope tool, fit midi content... all the raw of many tools always available in project window... tools once available DIRECTLY in the track headers.......
 

None of that's got anything to do with the PRV.

...not to mention (over and over...) the fact that ANY tool could be made instantly visible because tool bars were ONCE customizable....!

Somewhat relevant to the PRV, but a bit broad, and not making any specific points.

 
...As repeatedly said, new Control Bars' "modules"are often unusable, because unadaptable and often (absurd) "off-line" even on a 19'' screen, which happened to be comfortable with SONAR 8.5 instead....! Can you really say you are happy with those static modules..? 
 

Not relevant to PRV.

How do you think X1 was made "cleaner"( according to some enthusiasts, while I just find it "poorer"), otherwise...? By cutting tools away from the GUI, how else...?
  

Not relevant to PRV.

Is that really hard to see...?
...SONAR 8.5, to me, was FASTER and thus more powerful than X1......
 

Again, kind of vague.

You can type however you like. But I don't feel particularly bad about having a little joke about repeated rambling, vague, off-topic postings.

John T

gothic.angel


...just think of all features now hidden within menus and or multi-level smart tool...   es. magnifier, meter settings, add-track/s dialogue, split tool, mute tool, draw-envelope tool, fit midi content... all the raw of many tools always available in project window... tools once available DIRECTLY in the track headers.......

None of that's got anything to do with the PRV.

...not to mention (over and over...) the fact that ANY tool could be made instantly visible because tool bars were ONCE customizable....!

Somewhat relevant to the PRV, but a bit broad, and not making any specific points.

 
...As repeatedly said, new Control Bars' "modules"are often unusable, because unadaptable and often (absurd) "off-line" even on a 19'' screen, which happened to be comfortable with SONAR 8.5 instead....! Can you really say you are happy with those static modules..? 

Not relevant to PRV.

How do you think X1 was made "cleaner"( according to some enthusiasts, while I just find it "poorer"), otherwise...? By cutting tools away from the GUI, how else...?
 

Not relevant to PRV.

Is that really hard to see...?
...SONAR 8.5, to me, was FASTER and thus more powerful than X1......

Again, kind of vague.

 
 
 
...thanks for replying.... you almost proved i'm right, indeed....
 
I think, in fact, that everything above applies to the piano roll view, instead...
 
You see, tools WERE previously present in ANY of the SONAR views, especially in PRV, which in X1 has been stripped down...
 
thanks again... (really) 
  
  
 

John T


Well, go on. What specifically in the PRV is harder to use, or missing? You seem very certain of this, so it can't be hard for you to just come out and say what the actual problems are.

That's already been asked, bristol_jonesy I think. I doubt you'll get a reply.............

FastBikerBoy

John T


Well, go on. What specifically in the PRV is harder to use, or missing? You seem very certain of this, so it can't be hard for you to just come out and say what the actual problems are.

That's already been asked, bristol_jonesy I think. I doubt you'll get a reply.............

 
 
Of course I'm certain...
 
...Why are there menus instead of buttons in PRV now...? simple... because everything is within (ugly) menus now... almost EVERYTHING... you see NO MORE tool bars... JUST menus...
 
The answer being... ALL features need now distracting searching and (al least) an extra-click...... which makes X1's PRV slower than previous.....
 
Guys, are you really so much in love to have gotten that blind......? (joking...)
 
 
 

gothic.angel

John


Gothic don't you see the irony in your comments to John T at all? I do.

 
 
"irony" is always welcome.... not the same for "sarcasm"....
 
...I think you realize you went a little too far.... now reducing it all to "irony".....
 
...Unfortunately... that kind of "blame on your typing" (so to speak...), or mocking with presumption has been shown a few times before, so I replied with awareness...
 
..anyway... as writing at a distance doesn't always really give the right feel and mood, I have no problems to get over these little things, long as we are now understood....   
 
...I'd be glad to shake hands, really...

In my view you have handled my posts to you here extremely well. I do respect you and your views. Always have. It may not be evident in how I always respond but be assured I know that you basically want the same things for this forum as I do. 

We are and will remain friends. 

John

gothic.angel

John


Gothic don't you see the irony in your comments to John T at all? I do.

"irony" is always welcome.... not the same for "sarcasm"....

...I think you realize you went a little too far.... now reducing it all to "irony".....

...Unfortunately... that kind of "blame on your typing" (so to speak...), or mocking with presumption has been shown a few times before, so I replied with awareness...

..anyway... as writing at a distance doesn't always really give the right feel and mood, I have no problems to get over these little things, long as we are now understood....   

...I'd be glad to shake hands, really...

In my view you have handled my posts to you here extremely well. I do respect you and your views. Always have. It may not be evident in how I always respond but be assured I know that you basically want the same things for this forum as I do. 

We are and will remain friends. 

 
 
...Hey John... I know we were all in good faith here.... only a bit "strong" in our positions....
 
Yes, basically we have the same feelings about this forum, even when, of course, views may be different, at times....
 
Thank you for your really wise words... sure we ARE friends.... and I'm honestly glad to be.....
 
 
 
until next time.... regards by Steve (gothicAngel)
 
 
 

I still fail to appreciate how clicking 'T' in the prv (or clicking the middle mouse button) equates to having to click down into a menu driven hierarchy.