Keni

John T


I don't think so. Like I say, single click is still there on the draw tool.

The draw, edit and erase tools work more or less like they always did. The smart tool is new, and requires a new design, as it allows you to do almost everything with one tool. I think it's a brilliant piece of interface design, myself, but you don't have to use it.

Yes, but changing tools back and forth requires extra clicks... Why is it that I almost never changed tools in 8.5.3 and I was able to do all these things (comfortably) without the Smart Tool?

Keni

Keni, if you almost 'never changed tools in 8.5', what is it about X1 that you feel requires the need to change tools more frequently?

You can setup the smart tool and simply click different parts of the 'cell' to draw, erase, crop, move etc, all without changing tools.

By cell I mean of course a note/time intersection in the PRV.

But the Smart Tool IS a 'one-click only tool'

I'm not understanding Gothic. The smart tool in X1 is much the same as the MIDI tools in 8.5 except more consistent to the tools elsewhere in X1.

From the 8.5 Reference guide

Flexible Piano Roll tools
SONAR has three different Piano Roll mouse tools. Each tool can be customized to perform any
available mouse action. There can be as much or as little overlap in functionality as you want
between the tools.
Don’t care for some of SONAR’s default Piano Roll tool behaviors? No problem, simply re-assign the
tools to suit your preferred editing style.
There are approximately 20 different mouse actions that the Piano Roll tools can perform, such as
selecting, drawing, erasing, slip-editing, transposing, etc. It’s difficult to make a single tool that can
perform all of these actions, so SONAR allows you to customize the Piano Roll tools to suit your own
editing requirements.
There are three mouse buttons (left, middle and right) and three modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT and
ALT) that can be used in any combination. Your custom Piano Roll tool assignments can be saved
as presets and apply to both the Piano Roll view and the inline Piano Roll.
See:
The PRV Tool Configuration dialog
To configure a Mouse Action
Mouse Location
Tool Action
Default PRV tool assignments

Not only that, you can access ALL of the Smart Tools functions by using the keyboard Function Keys.

A one-click solution.

After a week of working with the Smart Tool, it now feels like a backwards step having to revert to the old method when I need to work in 8.5

...points of view, mates....

...yet to me (and others...), the more we use X1, far as its workflow, the more we find it slower than ever.....   and reasons have been extensively explained...

...plus, the fact that too many tools are now hidden can only be an irrefutable point in that direction...

...it's become slower guys, that's how it feels now.....  

Hidden? I use the smart tool mostly but I have used other tools with X1 and do not find it any slower at all. The Smart Tool by itself can do most everything one needs and if not the other tools are a key press away. Between the HUD, the Key bindings and the Smart Tool to me its a great deal faster. Not only in the PRV but throughout X1.

But you are right in that this is a matter of personal taste. Maybe they can have it so it can be configured either way. I think that would be a very smart move on their part.

John


 
 ...But you are right in that this is a matter of personal taste. Maybe they can have it so it can be configured either way. I think that would be a very smart move on their part. 

Yes John...  

...of course I agree about THAT point.... and that's ONE of the main parts... We may want to configure\customize it our OWN way...  

Why use clicks and keys (thus memory...) when it was ONCE all right there... at once....?

I get the lack of customisation argument, which doesn't really affect me much because the smart tool is pretty much set up how I had my main editing tool anyway. But I can fully understand the frustration if it's not set to your preference and you can't change it....... But...

........the more click/less functional argument is hogwash. The smart tool is more capable than any single tool in any pre-X1 Sonar was and that's not opinion but fact. I've listed all the available functions in a different thread some time ago but if you want to do a direct comparison you list the V8.x functions available to ONE tool and I'll list X1s smart tool functions and then you can count them if you don't believe me.

Have you actually tried using it?

Yeah great word, more polite than the alternative.

Anyway, never one to not back up a claim without facts................here goes.....

Exactly as in earlier versions of Sonar these depend on which hotspot you're over and also involve various modifiers but a list of available functions from the Smart tool as follows.  


In the track view.....................
 

1. Fade in
2. Fade out
3. Crop clip start
4. Crop clip start & move fade in
5. Crop clip start & move data
6. Stretch Clip
7. Crop clip end
8. Crop clip end & move fade out
9. Crop clip end & move data
10. Lasso select
11. Select by time
12. Click select clip
13. Drag clip
14. Split clip
15. Move data within clip
16. Set now time
17. Clear selection
18. Move automation nodes
19. Reset nodes
20. Move envelopes & segments between nodes
21. Add nodes
22. Lasso multiple nodes across tracks
23. Drag transient marker lines to stretch selected transients non-proportionally
24. Drag transient marker lines to stretch selected transients proportionally
25. Select all adjacent transient markers in other tracks
26. Move transient markers
27. Lasso select transient markers
28. Lasso select transient markers across multiple tracks
29. Insert new transient markers

PRV
 

1. Add notes
2. Adjust velocity
3. Select notes
4. Move notes
5. Open note properties
6. Erase notes
7. Split note
8. Mute note
9. Adjust note start
10. Adjust note end
11. Lasso select notes
12. Lasso erase notes
13. Change to clip mode.
14. Deselect notes

That lot all from ONE tool, no clicking to change tools seeing as click count is important to some........ how much more does anyone need ONE tool to do?

If it was actually customisable we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?

trimph1


If it was actually customisable we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?

...exactly...! 

...and again...  slow.... slower than any single specifically focused tool.... 

The single specifically focused tools are still there, the smart tool isn't compulsory .

Mystic38


Its all in pov and i respect the pov of all... to me..the very thing you want back is the things i hated most about sonar.. different window..tools left, right top bottom, no sense rhyme or reason... do i really want to spend tens of hours or more customising 8.5 to make sense?... no. that is the job of cakewalk.

IMO The popularity of Sonar was never going to increase with the UI presented in 8.5.. and Cakewalk is in business to make money, and if they dont.. no more Sonar... And so to me X1 streamlined the UI in quite a number of ways..screensets and smart tools to name the most appealing... and I think x1 has positioned Sonar to increase market share..and that is what is important to the business of cakewalk

x1 has been a breathe of fresh air...

  Totally agree.

Most of us don't see it that way. I for one see it as an extension of the configurable MIDI tools introduced in Sonar 8. Plus for CW to make the tools work a lot more consistently throughout the program. If for no other reason this was a great step forward in that idea.

It really shouldn't be an us vs them kind of thing though.

I really wish it were not presented that way. If Sonar had this concept all along then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everyone would have learned this method years ago. Or chosen another DAW that had no tools like it at all. I don't believe that would have happend though. It would have been an amazing selling point.

A bunch of you guys keep writing, "an automatic transmission is the way to go. Just learn how not to use a clutch, and how not to shift gears."

And a bunch of us guys keep telling you, "we need a manual transmission for what we need to do."

And then you guys say, "but the auto trans works just like it was designed to."

And we say, "That's great. But when we try to use it for our purposes it uses more gas, and takes more time."

And you guys say, "all you have to do is learn."

And we say, "it is not about learning, a manual trans works better for what we are attempting to do. Maybe, if we could over-ride the some of the hardcoded auto functions, we might be able to use it. But it is welded in place."

"So, it does not matter if the auto trans works as designed. It does not work for what we need a transmission for."

j