guitartrek

timidi


it's got more 1's and 0's than S1. (more to go wrong). along the same lines, S1 is very rudimentary.
Basically, there's just less to go wrong in S1. Come on ole pal, you knew that.

I really think Tim is on to something.  Cakewalk has always pushed the limits in terms of features.   And from what I've seen from Studio 1 it is very basic (and very nicely designed).  I think their programmers know what they are doing too.  But the sheer number of features in Sonar will always make it more susceptible to issues.  Cakewalk's programmers are good too, but trying to get all the parts of the application to play nice with each other at all times is tough when there are so many parts.

Hmm, I don't know what people mean by S1 is basic.   It's got a lot of really cool features, some of which are well thought out and implemented, and it can go deep too (just like any good DAW).
 
I'm not sure I'd call it basic at all.  I would say that it does have 'some' degree of less features than Sonar, but there are some things one 'might' call "bloat" in Sonar too.
 
S1 just seems leaner, in that regard.  But definitely not 'basic' in my opinion.
 
Also- S1 didn't have to be backward compatible with anything.  That's an advantage Sonar doesn't have.  So I suspect having to be backward compatible is another area that might cause Sonar more likely to crash, similar as Tim points out.
 
 

with no dissrespect it aint about fair and if people cant
pull up to the plate and address their system issues All
software will have issues .sooner or later..personaly I cant
wait for X-1b.. you mean this is going to run even better !!

(Sorry, this is in reference to Star Tekh)
 
If by you, you mean me, X1a IS running pretty good for me.  If by pretty good you mean generally stable but with the intermittent but persistent risk of hanging up on any random project close...or hanging while trying to open or close the wrong VST while the transport is running or changing presets on any given VST while the transport is running or having the "teleport server" (which is BitBridge) just stop working causing an early termination of Sonar among other "little annoyances".
 
And my "system" is a Win7 64bit on a 3GHZ core i7 with 12gigs ram running X1 64bit.  What would you have me do?  Run a 12Terrabyte system of liquid mysterium in an anti-matter vacuum chamber??

I had no trouble crashing S1, big time as a matter of fact.

Both X1 and 8.5.3 have been pretty stable for me.  I don't usually have any problems with crashing until I get to the stage I'm ready to start mixing and using Melodyne Editor, then crashing becomes fairly regular until I'm done with ME and have frozen the tracks I use it on and I'm inclined to blame Celemony for that.  I've learned to save often & many new versions while using ME.   Hopefully some day it will be as stable as Melodyne Plugin was for me.

Not to say Sonar is rock solid for me it does occasionally crash for no apparent good reason (if there is such a thing) especially X1, but I can work for hours with multiple instances of GR4, Amplitube 3, and/or Pod Farm along with Jamstix 3, adding possibly True Piano on occasion etc, tracking, and later mixing with Ozone 4 and other effects with rarely a crash.

Dan

By the number of issues in X1 I find it pretty un-ustable in professional situations. The crashing issue makes me very nervous in regards to starting a full project and I pretty much use everything..V Vocals, Multiple effects, External Midi modules, lots of audio and multiple vst's. Projects that I did in 8.5.3 are simply not tolerated in X1 because I like to squeeze Sonar for everything it's got. In 8.5.3 pure stability...in X1....laughable crashing constantly like it hates me. So: I look at X1 like  wall street stock. Yea ..I bought stock in Cakewalk. I own X1. I can't quite use it yet but that's OK. I don't like unripe fruit in the least. So I will wait til Cakewalk finishes X1 and pray to God that X2 is and upgrade we don't have to pay for as Cakewalks apology for all of us that suffered through this roller coaster ride called " X1".

That's a drag. I get ticked everytime I hear someone with issues.

I'll admit this, I'm scared to go to far with it. Though I frequently try to reproduce other peoples issues, I'm personally afraid that if I get too deep, I'll be the one with all the issues. But I keep trying to crash it. Throwing thing after thing at it and can't except twice.

1. Was a dim pro "tempo synched" attempt......last time I make that mistake (old chestnut)
2. Was a combination of wild tempo/time signature changes with some crazy automation with some hungry little plugs. It didn't actually "crash" persay, it locked on me when I hit save. Of course the session was saved and worked fine after my routine after locks/etc.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, it's just that I'm with yorolpal, I just don't get it. And again, I try and reproduce stuff people ask all the time.

Well - there are a few reasons why crashes would occur...

First - there is a question I did ask before, but never got answered. Those people with a lot of crashes - are they using the download version? And those with little or no crashes - do they use the packaged (DVD) version?

If the above is true, there could be some trouble with some people with their ISP. Sometimes downloads get corrupted by bad gear (yes I know there is a CRC, but still). It is entirely possible the downloaded file installs like a dream, but has some tiny bits corrupted. It is even possible the unzipper (I don't know it it are zip files - I have the packaged version) choked itself for various reasons (virusscanner, not enough memory to hold zipped and unzipped image etc.). And talking about virusscanner - those bastards can corrupt an installation to unusable.

Secondly - As I also said before. A lot of people are using software that has hardware- or software based protection. It is known that protection software uses sometimes exotic and not fully (or not at all) documented system calls, with unpredictable result in other software. I have seen perfect running software brought down to it's knee by some stupid implemented protection software.

Third - bad drivers. I have seen drivers that hung complete computers. It does not have to be audio drivers. Hardware drivers or "handy" tweaker software for videocards can bring a system to s screeching halt. And do not forget the biggest culprit of them all - overclocking or "tweaking" hardware to its limits, dramatically increasing chances of crashes.

Forth - bad hardware. Even hardware that have worked without any hiccup can suddenly "give up". Especially hard drives are in a lot of cases suspect. By installing new software the storage is increased, and if a "weak" area oft the platter is used by your shiny new software, you can get crashes seemingly without any reason. Regularly hard drive checks are important ! Memory also can get bad (sometime contact corrosion or just bad luck). Regularly checks are also important. If you opened tha case of the computer for some reason, make sure all connections are still tight and not replaced.

Fifth - "unclean install". What I mean is installing fresh software on a system that was in use for years. Most time this systems are become "dirty" by installing and un-installing "test" software, or traces and left-overs from old -not longer used- software. Those "dirty" systems can have unpredictable results on your shiny new software. To remedy this is is advised to always test brand new software on a "clean" system (without anything else but known good drivers). Slowly and one by one adding your software (like plugins) that you generally need is done after that. IF something happens, you always know it must be the last piece of software (plugin or other DAW) that is breaking things. A lot of people with crashes here benefited from installing on a clean system.

That sums it up a little. There are a lot of rasons why software runs without any problem for one person, and are a nightmare for other persons. This is happening, and it is very sad when it happens. The advise is - stay calm, and see of one of the above points is valuable. Ask here if somebody has the same problem. Do not come here saying that @%$#@# software is @#%& unusable, because a.) it is less likely your problem will be solved, and because b.) it draws negative attention that solves nothing too.

At last - sure ... there is a chance the software has bugs. It is very likely software has bugs, because I know very little software that is absolutely bug free (aviation and medical software is the most bug free I know, but even there can be little bugs). It is always good however, to take the above points in consideration before declaring something a bug. It narrows down the amount of real bugs, and reduces uncertainty. It also opens commitment to find a (temporarily) work-around.

Just my 2 cents...

@jclosed: (I'll try to keep up) and remember I'm in the not crashing camp right now.

1. I did the download. It runs side by side with my boxed version of 8.5.3
2. Personally, I'm win7x64. My UAC? OFF! I don't care, I've had too many software companies tell me off is best. I don't do porn, warez, or click the "viagra" emails.
3. People **** (not here just in general) about the soundcard I have all the time. Maudio profire 610. Have I ever mentioned I hate the term "rock solid"? Well, in fact they have been.
4. See my specs. Computer is above average (could be an important point BUT other people with better machines than mine have reported issues......so......it's just a mystery)
5. I put this beast into service almost exactly 1 year from today. Tons of demos, crap uninstalled, you name it. I do however run a pretty clean machine. I Cclean about once a week. Then I use the auslogic defrag and registry cleaner. I keep my stuff reasonably organized....it's not perfect though. NO ANTIVIRUS!

SONAR X1 is running great here.... 100%

Yesterday, I launched it for the first time in 2 weeks and I checked my automatic latency compensation settings.

I tried to open prefernces by pressing "P" but that didn't work because I forgot to load a project... so I used my mouse to find "preferences" in the drop down menu and opened it up.

My automatic Latency was set at 108 samples... I think I wrote that down on some scratch paper.

Then I shut down X1 and it closed smooth as silk.

I might do it again next weekend... just to make sure it's running stable and all that stuff.

best regards,
mike

mike_mccue


SONAR X1 is running great here.... 100%

Yesterday, I launched it for the first time in 2 weeks and I checked my automatic latency compensation settings.

I tried to open prefernces by pressing "P" but that didn't work because I forgot to load a project... so I used my mouse to find "preferences" in the drop down menu and opened it up.

My automatic Latency was set at 108 samples... I think I wrote that down on some scratch paper.

Then I shut down X1 and it closed smooth as silk.

I might do it again next weekend... just to make sure it's running stable and all that stuff.

best regards,
mike

  

First - there is a question I did ask before, but never got answered. Those people with a lot of crashes - are they using the download version? And those with little or no crashes - do they use the packaged (DVD) version?

Nope - regular crashing here with the DVD version.


 

Secondly - As I also said before. A lot of people are using software that has hardware- or software based protection. It is known that protection software uses sometimes exotic and not fully (or not at all) documented system calls, with unpredictable result in other software. I have seen perfect running software brought down to it's knee by some stupid implemented protection software.

 
Nope - no AV or firewall installed on my machine, never been on the 'net.

yorolpal
. . .  In X1 I get infrequent BSODs referencing my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra Interface (not Sonar...just the FTU).  In S1 I have not had one single BSOD of any kind...let alone referencing the FTU.  And this is just one example of the disparate nature of the hangups and crashes I'm refering to. 

Hi ol' pal. Kind of OT but have you tried the latest (beta) driver for the FTU? I was experiencing various issues - FTU losing connection, disappearing from the driver list in SONAR, FTU control panel hanging the PC, BSOD, etc.

I had more issues with it in SONAR than in other apps (e.g. media player, Amplitube standalone, etc.) - but I'm aware SONAR makes more demands than most other apps so no surprise there.

Anyhow, once I installed the beta driver (available here) all of those issues seem to be a thing of the past - it's rock-solid for me now. The driver isn't listed on the regular M-Audio support site - I found it by accident via the forum.

Just thought I'd throw that in - hope it helps.

I'd like to see someone load S1 up and throw everything at it...200 tracks with numerous instances of Dim Pro and various FX ...even unto racks of them and see what happens....it may have a choke on the rendering but...crash? 

It might have been mentioned, but perhaps we are running into 3d party issues as well?

If someone put together a survey that all users could complete, with columns for Motherboard, Chipset, Video Card, Audio Hardware, OS, 32/64 bit, as well as 3d party plugins etc etc, one might start seeing a pattern. Anyone care to mock up a clever spreadsheet that we can all contribute to?

John


I have and the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence.

About S1 which version are you using Ol Pal?

I can't say I have had any crashes with 8.xx onward. I am still not having any crashing with it when I check out to see if it still works.

Sonar 6 crashed a lot on my old machine.  When I built this machine I was very careful with what components I put in it.

The old machine had 1 gig of memory but it was not of the same brand which I believe caused the crashing. I didn't realized that until I took it apart to check some issues in it. I built it too. I was far less careful with it then I was with this one. I was using an Emagic AMT 8 with it and thought it was the cause but I didn't have trouble with it under XP on this machine.

Same here John. Sonar has been stable for me from the get go. The only time I had instability was when I began having problems with my computer. If I remember correctly, you were the one that told me to forget all things and check my memory sticks first. As soon as I did that (they were also different sticks) my system and Sonar were back to normal! I began to have problems a little later on because of my motherboard. But after buying a new system all is smooth sailing. Sonar does everything I need and then some.