Sound Quality of Sonar X1

Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 5 of 31
Author
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9871
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 16:59:28 (permalink)
Unless you've encountered a specific bug/problem, I wouldn't say that Sonar sounds blanketly muddy/inarticulate/etc.
 
This is a commercial release that was mixed in Sonar (Dino Alden).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1e0-fcg_zQ
Music may not be your cup of tea, but the mix certainly doesn't sound bad. 
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
Brando
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2776
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:47:20
  • Location: Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 17:59:02 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry


Unless you've encountered a specific bug/problem, I wouldn't say that Sonar sounds blanketly muddy/inarticulate/etc.
 
This is a commercial release that was mixed in Sonar (Dino Alden).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1e0-fcg_zQ
Music may not be your cup of tea, but the mix certainly doesn't sound bad. 
 
 
 
Nice - Ronnie James Dio meets Dream Theater. Wish my music sounded this muddy and inarticulate. LOL.


Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper
Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL
ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 22562
  • Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
  • Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 18:06:19 (permalink)
What is funny about this thread is that all the other DAW forums I frequent run exactly the same topic but there it's Sonar that's included in the list of DAWs that sound better...

It's kind of like a personality null test where every forum combined cancels each others findings out.

The finding is that there is no finding to be found, I find.

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6783
  • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 18:07:11 (permalink)
Ah yes, but that's only guitar music, if you're making electronic music it's magical and special in some way and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://johntatlockaudio.com/
Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 22562
  • Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
  • Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 18:34:00 (permalink)
John T


Ah yes, but that's only guitar music, if you're making electronic music it's magical and special in some way and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Ahh, but with guitar music to get the best results you need the best guitar, mics and pres.....

...then twat all that it in a feedback loop fed through an overdrive, several distortion units and an amp sim, after doing that I'm sure I get an emphasis of 0.0000512 db in the 70-200Hz range.  It's not placebo either I can't get it to null after that even if I play exactly the same lick twice...

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
cliffr
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 539
  • Joined: 2010/02/19 21:44:43
  • Location: Wellington, New Zealand
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 19:15:13 (permalink)
Sylvan


Scott Lee


Hi all,

My theory about this topic? Straight digital audio from sonar is no different then any other daw. Their I said it! Null til you heart is content or your HDs fill up.

Now a few of my personal concerns. The VST / sonar bridge? Possibly. Vsts were never native to sonar, DXi was the standard. VST support was purchased and added late in the plugin game. I suspect this is one reason why we don't see true VST3 support yet. While it has been integrated and streamlined into sonar x1, its not native code ron or noel wrote.. I cannot say how much has changed I have no idea of the inner workings but then again cakewalk use to talk a bit more freely about bugs and programming years ago.

Other possiblies? We can agree straight digital audio is well, null perfect. How it mixed, bussed, routed, phased, is another factor all together.. Pan laws? There was a bug a few years back that the singals on -3 were doubling. After the usual cakewalk forum "fun" debate, it turned out to be true which Ron corrected. Bugs can and do exist even ones from years back..

News flash! Noel is the chief programmer, the número uno. Note: also a fine jazz guy.  Pro audio was pre sonar by twelve tones ( ah the days ) late 90s and was coded by Ron Kuper. Sonar boasted a new engine with Acid type audio control, but really was an overhauled pro audio. How much code was changed? That's a question for Ron k, as we don't know what's under the hood. What we do know is we are still building off a quite an older audio engine, one revamped  and reworked for many years.. Old code bad? Not saying that. Could x break backwards compatibility? Every daw on the market has gap less elastic audio, some better then others. Why not Sonar? 

The cakewalk team has some fine programmers. In no way am I'm knocking anyone. I suspect, it's a huge market risk to rewrite the engine esepecially when folks say "the color is great!" :-) just always and still bothers me about the mud around 70-200 hz.. 

Not trying to win over the hearts for my campaign here. I truly want sonar to improve its weaker points, risk or otherwise. Don't take my word for it, dig a bit deeper in these forums and you'll find some very old interesting reads..

Best,

Scott,
 
I am curious about something. You say that everyone can null until their HD's fill up, but later in the same post you refer to color in the engine again. If there was indeed some color, would that not make nulling impossible? Just an observation. I have read very carefully everything written in this thread and this stuck out to me.
Hey Charles,
 
you have to laugh at some of these posts, don't ya.
 
You've done the test, Middleman too, and many others.
It is 100% repeatable and conclusive.
 
All this jibing by some about Sonar's audio engine "Coloring the sound" is nonsense, that's
why there's all this jibing around by those who continue to postulate that the "Sonar Audio Engine"
is "muddy" or whatever.
 
They have to postulate because the factual scientific evidence (eg: proven by proper controlled testing)
absolutely says they are wrong.
 
It's obvious from reading through this thread, that some people think they know everything, yet consistently
prove the opposite with their continuous drivel.
It's entertaining, if nothing more.
 
Anyone who can really hear a difference, can only do so because there is some difference in the DAW set ups.
NOT because the Audio Engine colors the sound ... it doesn't !.
 
Then there's those who believe they hear a difference, because they've convinced themselves they can.
 
And anyone using "Windows Media Player" to try and judge anything is making a big mistake.
It's rubbish. You can play the same file twice in WMP, and find it sounds different each time.
That one can also be easily proven.
 
 
So, now I have to go dig out my copy of "Demons and Wizards", and maybe the old Magicians Birthday ...
and see how they sound in Sonar ... just in case it sound different (ha ha LOL)
 
Should be fun :-)
 
 
Oh, and I'll check back with interest to see what other laughable posts get added to this thread - you can
bet this one will go on for a while yet.
 
 
Cheers - Cliff

i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s
Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets
My Soundclick Page 
Middleman
Max Output Level: -31.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4397
  • Joined: 2003/12/04 00:58:50
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 19:16:20 (permalink)
John T


Ah yes, but that's only guitar music, if you're making electronic music it's magical and special in some way and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


There you go. Let's make it frequency dependent. Sonar is good for guitars but Reaper is the defacto for Synths. Protools for strings. Now we need multiple DAWs for the optimum sound experience. I don't want to live there.

Gear: A bunch of stuff.
cliffr
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 539
  • Joined: 2010/02/19 21:44:43
  • Location: Wellington, New Zealand
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 19:17:26 (permalink)
John T


Ah yes, but that's only guitar music, if you're making electronic music it's magical and special in some way and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yea, it's a real crack up that, isn't it.
 
Cheers - Cliff

i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s
Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets
My Soundclick Page 
timidi
Max Output Level: -21 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5449
  • Joined: 2006/04/11 12:55:15
  • Location: SE Florida
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 19:49:25 (permalink)
And anyone using "Windows Media Player" to try and judge anything is making a big mistake. It's rubbish. You can play the same file twice in WMP, and find it sounds different each time. That one can also be easily proven.  



So, a "1" or a "0" is not necessarily a "1" or a "0"..?

ASUS P8P67, i7-2600K, CORSAIR 16GB, HIS 5450, 3 Samsung SSD 850, Win7 64, RME AIO.
 
https://timbowman.bandcamp.com/releases
 
cliffr
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 539
  • Joined: 2010/02/19 21:44:43
  • Location: Wellington, New Zealand
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 20:03:39 (permalink)
timidi



And anyone using "Windows Media Player" to try and judge anything is making a big mistake. It's rubbish. You can play the same file twice in WMP, and find it sounds different each time. That one can also be easily proven.  



So, a "1" or a "0" is not necessarily a "1" or a "0"..?
That's not what I said at all, that statement is plain silly.
Mind you, at a quick glance I see there seems to be plenty of that available 'round here.
 
WMP is flawed, it's that simple. Especially noticable variances in volume level.
Yes I've tested it ... because I thought there was something drastically wrong with my hearing.
 
Turns out after both a hearing test and a WMP test, my hearing is fine (better than I thought actually), and WMP is not.
 
I had to scientifically prove it to myself, because I really though my hearing was starting to play up on me
and it gave me serious concern because I'm actually quite dependant on my ears for so much of what I do.
 
Cheers - Cliff

i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s
Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets
My Soundclick Page 
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 22562
  • Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
  • Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 20:10:16 (permalink)
Yeah, we can get another 10 pages out of this thread now by asking 'which media player has the best audio engine?'.

Let it roll...

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
Sylvan
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 793
  • Joined: 2005/04/14 14:51:02
  • Location: San Diego, CA-USA
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/06 23:08:49 (permalink)
cliffr
Hey Charles, 
 
you have to laugh at some of these posts, don't ya.
 
You've done the test, Middleman too, and many others.
It is 100% repeatable and conclusive.
 
All this jibing by some about Sonar's audio engine "Coloring the sound" is nonsense, that's
why there's all this jibing around by those who continue to postulate that the "Sonar Audio Engine"
is "muddy" or whatever.
 
They have to postulate because the factual scientific evidence (eg: proven by proper controlled testing)
absolutely says they are wrong.
 
It's obvious from reading through this thread, that some people think they know everything, yet consistently
prove the opposite with their continuous drivel.
It's entertaining, if nothing more.
 
Anyone who can really hear a difference, can only do so because there is some difference in the DAW set ups.
NOT because the Audio Engine colors the sound ... it doesn't !.
 
Then there's those who believe they hear a difference, because they've convinced themselves they can.
 
And anyone using "Windows Media Player" to try and judge anything is making a big mistake.
It's rubbish. You can play the same file twice in WMP, and find it sounds different each time.
That one can also be easily proven.
 
 
So, now I have to go dig out my copy of "Demons and Wizards", and maybe the old Magicians Birthday ...
and see how they sound in Sonar ... just in case it sound different (ha ha LOL)
 
Should be fun :-)
 
 
Oh, and I'll check back with interest to see what other laughable posts get added to this thread - you can
bet this one will go on for a while yet.
 
 
Cheers - Cliff



Ha ha ha, indeed. The Demons and Wizards song I used was "Blood on my Hands" off the Fiddler on the Green album. Just in case anyone cares.

But yes, the tests have all been done, case closed. I do not understand why some folks feel they have to go on about mix engines that color the sound, yet still null on summing and rendering tests.

I would venture to say that if you cannot get a clear mix with SONARs' mix engine, then perhaps it is time to enroll at Full Sail or something. Ok, that last bit was just a joke, no ill will intended. It was said with a light and merry heart. 

SONAR Platinum
RME Fireface UFX
Tascam US 20X20
Tascam US 16X08
Intel i7-5830K LGA2011V3 (6 CORE)
Asus X99-AII
Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB
Geeforce GTX 970 4GB
Danny Danzi
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 5810
  • Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
  • Location: DanziLand, NJ
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 00:13:31 (permalink)
I've been reading this thread for a while now trying to see both sides of the coin. So I did some tests on my own...the conclusion I come to is, it doesn't matter what DAW or even what soundcard I use. Realtek, Layla, Fireface 800, Profire, Digi, I still sound like me when I press spacebar and listen to my playback. I've never noticed a DAW making me sound different than the source I recorded.

Currently, I use Sonar, PT 10, PT 9 and Logic on MAC, Cubase 5,  Studio One 2, Reaper, Adobe Audition and Audacity....I can't tell a difference between any of them with my own sounds as well as music that was recorded somewhere else. I did hear a difference on Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 with my Sh!tBlaster 64 Gold card though...and it was definitely the card there. But for all other instances...nothing has ever stuck out to me as being drastically different. That's not to say I don't believe in what some are saying about this....I'm just saying on my end it's definitely not giving me the impression they speak of. What I put in is what I get out.

This brings me to a question that maybe one of you can answer. On some of my pc's, and I don't know why this is, but I can mix out of Sonar with the 64 bit mix engine enabled. Others, I can't and I get artifacts...sometimes no audio at all. It's weird. But anyway, on the one's that can use this function, I seem to hear a crisper, more well-pronounced type sound with that enabled. Can anyone attest to hearing this at all? I just wish I could figure out why I can sometimes use it and other times it fails on me...but it seems to make a bit of a clarity difference in my opinion....then again, I'd be willing to bet this may be a mind over matter thing.

Like, you know how you can listen to a file at 24/48 and then one at 24/96 and you THINK you're hearing a difference until you have someone else blind test you and they push the buttons so you can't see the file that's playing? I know for a fact I've failed by looking at something before "thinking" I heard a difference. Granted, with a bunch of acoustic instruments mic'd up on a 24/96 or an orchestra, I definitely can tell a difference. But with sonic music or rock, there's no difference at all to my ears.

Could some of this DAW stuff possibly be mind over matter maybe? I'm not trying to be sarcastic...I'm really curious about this stuff because I simply can't hear any differences on my end.

-Danny

My Site
Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2719
  • Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
  • Location: Trondheim, Norway
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 05:25:33 (permalink)
To the people saying "null tests with eksported files are irrelevant, you have to record the output of SONAR's miks engine":

If the output from within SONAR is indeed muddy (boost around 70-200 Hz or whatever) kompared to the summed file, wouldn't that lead to all SONAR users kompensating by kutting with EQ and ending up with thin/hollow-sounding mikses?

Sven





John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6783
  • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 05:31:48 (permalink)
Danny - as I understand it, enabling the 64 bit engine *can* result in better sound, at least in theory. BUT, and it's a big "but", this isn't some automatic thing where everything sounds nice and shiny in 64 bit mode. It's more to do with how complicated your mix is, what your effects chains are up to, how complex your routing is and so on. Mathematically speaking, as a mix gets more and more complicated, there is a higher possibility of degradation (through and increased amount of rounding inaccuracy) in the 32 bit space than the 64 bit space. That's the bit that's definitely happening and not a matter for debate. To what extent this is audible is an open question. I *think* I can hear the difference too (on really complex mixes), but I wouldn't go to the cross for that view, it's hard to be sure.

http://johntatlockaudio.com/
Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
Freddie H
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2007/09/21 06:07:40
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 06:18:46 (permalink)
"Muddy sound?"

SONAR X1 has the best sound of audio-engine I have heard or used so far. That's why I use SONAR X1. 
SONAR X1-pristine x64 oversampling, smooth and crisp sound. I would say it sounds even better then Samplitude Pro X audioengine. You can't compare only one track "sound" or clip and phase it. You need to mix together many tracks before you notice all errors other audioengines make compare to SONAR X1-pristine x64 oversampling audio engine.

I have used and made my own tests compared the audio engine to LOGIC, SAMPLITUDE, PRO TOOLS HD, Cubase, Nuendo & REAPER audio engine and SONAR always come out as a winnner...
Sure many things can still improve, eventhough after every update it get better and better, more or less glitchfree now. Now looping works perfect without any dropouts or glitches etc in my studio.

 


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
Freddie H
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2007/09/21 06:07:40
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 06:29:08 (permalink)
John T


Danny - as I understand it, enabling the 64 bit engine *can* result in better sound, at least in theory. BUT, and it's a big "but", this isn't some automatic thing where everything sounds nice and shiny in 64 bit mode. It's more to do with how complicated your mix is, what your effects chains are up to, how complex your routing is and so on. Mathematically speaking, as a mix gets more and more complicated, there is a higher possibility of degradation (through and increased amount of rounding inaccuracy) in the 32 bit space than the 64 bit space. That's the bit that's definitely happening and not a matter for debate. To what extent this is audible is an open question. I *think* I can hear the difference too (on really complex mixes), but I wouldn't go to the cross for that view, it's hard to be sure.

No its already proved that is so! you need 64bit audioengine are essential to work in full 24bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9EeW9WhNWA


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
thebiglongy
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 502
  • Joined: 2006/01/29 19:20:31
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 06:38:09 (permalink)
I'd plum for it being user caused ;)

Reason... The OP is, from what I can make out after a description he has recently posted, Playing and hearing the difference. I would have thought the best way to test this would just be to Record the guitar riff clean in something like Wavelab .... then import the file into SONAR x1, Reaper, Live and whatever else you are testing against. Then once you have checked all settings are matching (pan law's and such) insert the Amplitube VST create a guitar patch, save it, then open same saved patch in the other daws and test via bounce down and null?

The OP already has it in his head it sounds different and that is enough to make someone play different, which will often make things less clear, precise sounding. So doing as I've described above, would be a better test and a simple one...even without nulling. The key is the source file and patches used need to be the same.

Sonar x2a
Win 7 x64 // i7 930 @ stock speed // Gigabyte x58a-ud3r (rev 1) //
6gb corsair 1600mhz triple channel // ATI HD5450
Samsung EVO 128gb SSD // 2 x WD Black 1tb. 
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R
Rain
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9736
  • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 06:59:09 (permalink)
Danny Danzi


I've been reading this thread for a while now trying to see both sides of the coin. So I did some tests on my own...the conclusion I come to is, it doesn't matter what DAW or even what soundcard I use. Realtek, Layla, Fireface 800, Profire, Digi, I still sound like me when I press spacebar and listen to my playback. I've never noticed a DAW making me sound different than the source I recorded.

Currently, I use Sonar, PT 10, PT 9 and Logic on MAC, Cubase 5,  Studio One 2, Reaper, Adobe Audition and Audacity....I can't tell a difference between any of them with my own sounds as well as music that was recorded somewhere else. I did hear a difference on Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 with my Sh!tBlaster 64 Gold card though...and it was definitely the card there. But for all other instances...nothing has ever stuck out to me as being drastically different. That's not to say I don't believe in what some are saying about this....I'm just saying on my end it's definitely not giving me the impression they speak of. What I put in is what I get out.

This brings me to a question that maybe one of you can answer. On some of my pc's, and I don't know why this is, but I can mix out of Sonar with the 64 bit mix engine enabled. Others, I can't and I get artifacts...sometimes no audio at all. It's weird. But anyway, on the one's that can use this function, I seem to hear a crisper, more well-pronounced type sound with that enabled. Can anyone attest to hearing this at all? I just wish I could figure out why I can sometimes use it and other times it fails on me...but it seems to make a bit of a clarity difference in my opinion....then again, I'd be willing to bet this may be a mind over matter thing.

Like, you know how you can listen to a file at 24/48 and then one at 24/96 and you THINK you're hearing a difference until you have someone else blind test you and they push the buttons so you can't see the file that's playing? I know for a fact I've failed by looking at something before "thinking" I heard a difference. Granted, with a bunch of acoustic instruments mic'd up on a 24/96 or an orchestra, I definitely can tell a difference. But with sonic music or rock, there's no difference at all to my ears.

Could some of this DAW stuff possibly be mind over matter maybe? I'm not trying to be sarcastic...I'm really curious about this stuff because I simply can't hear any differences on my end.

-Danny

Which would then in turn raise the question - if 64 bit can make a difference, is it possible that it reveals certain flaws w/ some plug-ins and/or that some of them are actually sounding marginally better at a lower resolution?


I remember reading a review not so long ago about one of those mojo plug-ins where the guy seemed to insist that he preferred the oversampling engine on certain things but that the regular engine seems to work favorably on other sources. I also remember you mentioned certain type of sounds which seem to come out even better when recorded via your realtek - and I tend to trust your ears...

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2719
  • Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
  • Location: Trondheim, Norway
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:01:03 (permalink)
thebiglongy

Then once you have checked all settings are matching (pan law's and such) insert the Amplitube VST create a guitar patch, save it, then open same saved patch in the other daws and test via bounce down and null?

I'm not sure, I wouldn't be surprised if a plug like Amplitube has enough randomness going on that komplete nulling may be possible.
 
A blind listening test would be more to the point anyway!





thebiglongy
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 502
  • Joined: 2006/01/29 19:20:31
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:03:40 (permalink)
"Rain
and I tend to trust your ears... "

So do some of those people who end up on Xfactor and Britain's got talent. Sometimes our own ears just ain't that good or reliable ;)



Sonar x2a
Win 7 x64 // i7 930 @ stock speed // Gigabyte x58a-ud3r (rev 1) //
6gb corsair 1600mhz triple channel // ATI HD5450
Samsung EVO 128gb SSD // 2 x WD Black 1tb. 
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2719
  • Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
  • Location: Trondheim, Norway
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:07:05 (permalink)
LJB


In the DAW I still think PT is kinda more "bouncy" and tight, but I did a crude shootout of a 16 track file that was not recorded in either, and I could not hear the difference on the mixdown.. AT ALL.
 
Dare I suggest the much bounsier and livelier meter animations inside PT kould have something to do with it? Seems like the kind of thing that might have a psyko-akoustik effekt!
 
Sven





Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
  • Total Posts : 6475
  • Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
  • Location: Boston, MA, USA
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:28:06 (permalink)
Some time ago I ran into a serious sonic degradation issue when playing files in Windows. It turned out to be a Windows crappy SRC leading to very audible aliasing artifacts. I'm sure this bites tons of Windows users without them knowing it.

Here is a post describing what I found: https://plus.google.com/100031147479819116208/posts/AUUFmaasrvR


Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
Flywheel
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 202
  • Joined: 2012/01/05 10:37:37
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:34:58 (permalink)
Windows Media Player is not the best sounding though the spectrum is quite wide when you push the frequencies hard it starts to peak and but sounds like there is a gate and limiter fighting each other.

Which one would you use (download) if you want better all round clarity.

The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:40:54 (permalink)
That was interesting Noel.

Thank you.

best regards,
mike


JazzSinger
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 895
  • Joined: 2004/07/06 16:30:59
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 07:40:58 (permalink)
@brozobob: Is Amplitube in the FX bin?

Try this:

Reduce the signal level going into Amplitube 2 by turning down the track gain in Sonar (Just to clarify: I mean the Gain knob. NOT the fader!). This is like rolling back the volume on a guitar. Cleans up the sound.

See if you can get the Sonar/Amplitube combination to sound the same as the other DAWs. Please let us how far down you had to turn the gain, then I can try the same test using other amp sim plugs.
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 08:33:45 (permalink)
It is interesting that Amplitube triggered this.  Most people I know find Amplitube a bit muddy, though it sounds great when cleaned up.  The people in question use either Sonar or Cubase.  No complaints about unprocessed sound, and no complaints with Guitar Rig.

Not sure if this adds anything, but it is interesting.
Freddie H
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2007/09/21 06:07:40
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 09:47:16 (permalink)
PS! Electric Guitar? Like you can hear any different on a electric dist guitar? LOL sounds always terrible harsh if we talk dynamic!
 
I mean that is not like I first think of when running a dynamic reffence test. Try Orchestra or drumbeat o anything but not electric guitar!


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
Freddie H
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2007/09/21 06:07:40
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 09:53:28 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Some time ago I ran into a serious sonic degradation issue when playing files in Windows. It turned out to be a Windows crappy SRC leading to very audible aliasing artifacts. I'm sure this bites tons of Windows users without them knowing it.

Here is a post describing what I found: https://plus.google.com/100031147479819116208/posts/AUUFmaasrvR
on MP3 sounds crap right not PCM files..I hope this doesn't afflicts raw PCM files pro audio cards inside DAWs...
 
 
and by the way when we at it...... isn't better the web start streaming 48kHz, 16/24bit MP3-files that everyone original use instead of using "vintage settings" like 44.1kHz 16bit that noone want or use in the first place...
 
If Video had the same slow progress on format as audio has we still had put up with 4:3...240p video or even worse black and white only. Think about it!
post edited by Freddie H - 2012/03/07 10:04:47


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
SCorey
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 538
  • Joined: 2011/04/26 15:13:14
  • Location: Salt Lake City, UT
  • Status: offline
Re:Sound Quality of Sonar X1 2012/03/07 10:32:34 (permalink)
To anyone who thinks the mix engine is different from the exported files, it's simple to test. Just play the mix out of a digital output and record it back in from a digital input. Do it on a different device if you have one, just make sure it's a pure digital connection with no gain, dither, or resampling. Then line up and null that mix with an exported mix. I've done that and they null completely.

-Steve Corey
Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 5 of 31
Jump to:
© 2021 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1