Bob,
 
What are your settings on the Audio -> Driver Settings page of the SONAR Preferences, for Audio Driver Bit Depth, Sampling Rate and the 64-bit Double Precision Engine?  Are those settings consistent with what you have configured in the other DAWs?
 
Also, how about for the three File Bit Depths on the File -> Audio Data page?  The Record Bit Depth, in particular, becomes the project bit depth when you create a new project, and if that was set to 16 while you were working at 24 in another DAW, that could account for a difference.
 
Bill
 

Bill-
 
Thanks, now here is someone that is actually working to troubleshoot what is going on...
 
I don't need people to come to the rescue of Sonar's audio engine (although your certainly have every right to share your thoughts).
 
 
So, to Bill's point, I will have to verify that I was recording in 24 bit, but I believe that was the case with all programs. 
 
 
So yesterday evening, I switched out soundcards, trading my E-MU-1616m for a simple M-Audio Fastrack USB. I wanted to rule out the soundcard/drivers as being the culprit. Same results. I also tried Guitar Rig 3, to validate what I was hearing with Amplitube. I'm telling you, and I'm not a newbee, the sound difference when listening to the same patches, within each DAW is a reality (mine anyhow). 
 
My ears have been and are working fine, and it's not a perceived difference....
 
I had an extremely disinterested party (my wife) listen, and in a blind sound test, she picked Reaper and Live  as sounding "better".   She said the first 2 sounded exactly the same, the other one (Sonar) sounded just OK.  I didnt tell her what I was up to, and quite frankly, she could care less.  I just told her listen to all 3 and tell me what she heard.  I asked, by better, do you mean clearer/ louder?  She said, yes by a longshot.  She's got no skin in the game, just a set of ears to hear what I was hearing.
 
 
Now, I'm not here to bash Sonar's audio engine....so stop all of the sarcastic posts about how this is all just a bunch of B.S.
 
Without question, the monitored audio is clearer, and actually sounds louder (not sure why/faders are set the same input/output level- 0db). And before any of you wise-crackers say "maybe you're strumming harder" in the other DAWS....I'm not.
 
 
I don't know what else to say?  The soundcard and driver issue has been put to bed in my mind.  This is an issue with Sonar and my PC, or some setting within Sonar that I haven't identified as the key factor to the sound difference.
 
What I can gather from this post is that I haven't seen a reply where anyone has taken the time to fire up Amplitube (or Guitar Rig), to see if anyone can hear a noticeable difference when monitoring.  
 
I really don't need to have anyone validate that there is a difference....there is with my PC/Software Settings.  I don't think that the difference would be that noticeable due to bit depth, but I will make sure those setting are the same.  From a simple standpoint, of pluggin in, setting faders equal across DAWS, and playing, the sound difference is apparent.
 
So please, let's have some folks:
 
1. Fire up Sonar, Live, Reaper
2. Insert Amlitube or Guitar Rig,
3. Pull up a nice clean/ ambient patch, maybe with some chorus
4. Don't EQ anything
5. Play
6. Tell us  if you hear any difference when monitoring, in realtime, with the effects present
 
If everyone comes back and tells me, "Dude, you're high", well then I need to go have my head examined....
or figure out what is causing this to occur.
 

 

 
 

Danny - as I understand it, enabling the 64 bit engine *can* result in better sound, at least in theory. BUT, and it's a big "but", this isn't some automatic thing where everything sounds nice and shiny in 64 bit mode. It's more to do with how complicated your mix is, what your effects chains are up to, how complex your routing is and so on. Mathematically speaking, as a mix gets more and more complicated, there is a higher possibility of degradation (through and increased amount of rounding inaccuracy) in the 32 bit space than the 64 bit space. That's the bit that's definitely happening and not a matter for debate. To what extent this is audible is an open question. I *think* I can hear the difference too (on really complex mixes), but I wouldn't go to the cross for that view, it's hard to be sure.

 
John, that's a pretty good summary of how I feel.
All things being equal, I'll take the extra resolution (effectively making any potential rounding-error a moot point).
 
Roughly 10 years ago, I was one who was convinced that different DAW apps sounded different.
Over time... all the major apps (IMO) improved... as did the quality of native EFX/processing.
At this point, any potential differences are FAR less than the different "sound" you'd achieve by using a different tape machine.  There are far more significant things to concentrate on (mic choice/position, playing, arrangement, mix, etc)... that will have a much more profound impact on the final result.
 
Unless you're encountering a specific bug, you can achieve good results with any of the major applications.

Brozobob:
How about when you run Amplitube in standalone mode? Does it sound identikal there kompared to within Reaper/Live etc.? Is SONAR degrading Amplitube's sound quality, or do you feel the other DAW are enhansing it (kompared to standalone mode, I mean)?
 
 I don't have Amplitube, but I have and use Guitar Rig 5, Pod Farm 2 and Scuffham S-Gear and I've never notised any differense between their standalone modes and running inside SONAR.

What utter nonsense.

The Motown claim is hysterical. I mean, the music coming out of Motown in the 60s is some of the most exciting, universally loved, brilliantly written and performed popular music ever made. But from a technical recording point of view, it's mostly appalling. Plenty of really shocking single-mic recordings done in an untreated basement room, distorted to all hell. Go and listen to Dancing In The Streets; brilliant record in all the ways that matter, but an absolutely dreadful piece of engineering. If that's what Sonar inherently sounded like, Cakewalk would be out of business like a shot.

SvenArne


Brozobob: How about when you run Amplitube in standalone mode? Does it sound identikal there kompared to within Reaper/Live etc.? Is SONAR degrading Amplitube's sound quality, or do you feel the other DAW are enhansing it (kompared to standalone mode, I mean)? I don't have Amplitube, but I have and use Guitar Rig 5, Pod Farm 2 and Scuffham S-Gear and I've never notised any differense between their standalone modes and running inside SONAR.

This is a question I typed in last night and decided to just stay out of these never ending "I hear something different" threads.  They always end up the same because even if one is to believe they sound different, one persons "good" is another's "bad", one persons "warm" is possibly another persons "muddy", my "bright" your "pristine clarity", and so on and so on....  I'm firmly in the camp of a null is a null in the digital world (and that without the willingness to test what we think we hear (null tests/ABX comparisons of tracks with conclusive results), it's all speculation), but I also believe people will hear things they want to hear and that does not make them crazy, just biased (perhaps not the word I'm looking for, but substitute whatever word you find fitting) whether they want to admit it or not.  


Not naming names, but if you are unhappy with the way something sounds and you are simply sticking with it because you hope someday it will sound the way "you" want it to (hoping that the product becomes the product you dream of) then what happens when that day comes and all the others that liked (that whole preferential aspect of what we find pleasing) the way is sounded start complaining that it now sounds like crap - who was wrong, you or them?


I tend to think neither because how we perceive sound, or music, or anything else that requires our senses is subjective at best.


I suspect this thread will continue on, no ones mind will be changed from their original position, and we will all continue to make music that we enjoy.  It's interesting reading none the less.

Ok Brozobob, last try here because I am beating a dead horse as they say. Let's say you are right and there is a difference. Let's say an amazing clarity difference which makes your tracks sound magical in your DAW of choice. You are going to have to make what you hear transportable to other systems to be useful. This means capture what you hear to a file that can be played to let's say iTunes or WMP. That file will not contain a better or different sound if exported to a standard wave file and compared to Sonar. I think the null test proves that. The better sounding tracks in Reaper or whatever will always be put through a summing process which does not produce a file any different than Sonar except for random variations which Noel pointed out.

The only possible impact is your EQ choices in mixing so here we have a possible test bed. Mix the track to the best of your ability in Sonar and then in Reaper with the same plug ins. If there was an amazing difference in your approach and results. I am totally in your camp.

If I had that software, I would.

Well, you don't even have to do a test when you know they sound different.

John T, you hit the nail on the head.  I do think it may be some unaccounted factor, but I don't see what it could be.  Maybe it's the way Sonar handles these VST's, maybe not.
 
As you restated, my issue is with the immediate difference in sound (while monitoring)...with everything flat, levels exactly the same. 
 
That's why I'm asking if others can run the test on different DAWS wth  Amplitube or Guitar Rig. 
 
To Dappa1, I'm not sure I buy the all DAW's sound different.  On my PC, Live and REAPER produce the exact same results when I'm monitoring....the sound is identially crystal clear.  There is much clearer note definition.  Sonar is the exception among the 3.  
 
Again, this isn't meant to be a battle between DAWs; is about finding out weather others are/have noticed a substantial difference in sound with the combination of these programs; I'm not trying to win some battle.
 
I didn't wake up one day and say, "Hey, I think Sonar sounds like crap, so I'll try another DAW"  This was stumbled upon...and I was shocked with how different (in a good way) these plugins sounded in REAPER & LIVE.
 
As far as some folks saying, "Just use whatever sounds good to you if you're not happy with Sonar", that's not good enough.
I've made a large investment with Cakewalk, and would like to continue using the product....if I can root out what's causing the differences I'm experiencing.
 
 What PO's me is closed-minded people who dig their heels in to defend their product of choice.  Relax, I'm not trying to tell everyone to stop using Sonar. 
 
Also, for those who want to poo-poo my claim, I'm not interested in your opinion.  I'm looking for those folks who may have stumbled upon the same findings I have.  Guitar Rig 4 LE comes with Sonar X1, and REAPER is available as a free download for evalutaion.  Give it a shot and tell me what you think.  
 
All of this other stuff is just conjecture.
 
 

"I asked, by better, do you mean clearer/ louder? She said, yes by a longshot." -- this is a clue. Some listeners base their preferences on a difference in volume. Some Sonar users have been fooled in various ways by the setting of the "Main Out" sliders, which usually should stay at '0' and be ignored.

cuz basicaly my bedroom is ma studio

No...it's a lot muddier in IE...go check it.

@brozobob

I'm guessing it's something to do with how the input monitoring is set up. 
I played a recorded file of a guitar in Sonar and in Studio One and they sounded exactly the same (after ensuring the pan law is the same  - S1 uses -3db centre) when playing back through the same output on my RME FFUC. 

Then I inserting a Guitar Rig 4 preset into the tracks in the two DAWs - I used the Sultans of Pop preset, as you suggested a clean setting. Listening again the two tracks sounded just the same - definitely no level difference, or tonal differences for that matter.

So that just leaves the live playing and input monitoring a\s a factor.

Do you have any ASIO input monitoring going on in the non-SONAR DAWs? SONAR does not support it.

On a clean preset a bit of ASIO monitoring (or in the interface monitoring) would add to the processed signal and appear to make the sound louder.

@brozobob: Do please look what I said in a previous post. See also what bvideo said. (edit: and cliffsp8)
 
You cannot test this "live" because the signal level at the input to the amp sim plug must be the same for the test to be meaningful.
 
If you don't, you are simply causing different amounts of overdrive, the more the muddier.
 
You must play a clean track into a DAW, then play that recording back into the amp sim plugs on all DAWs you are testing.