asimmd
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 06:41:28
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I take the point that Sonar is a DAW and not a Score Program but,when the
notation and score side is not as good as other Daw's available at the moment,
I can't see why Cakewalk continue to ignore the numerous requests for it's
improvement,and there have been many such requests.
Yes,If I wanted to produce a Professional Score for Professional use,then I would use
Finale,or similar but this is my hobby,and I want to be able to use the notation side
to input notes and alter midi files.
Alan
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Freddie H
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 06:48:21
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ORIGINAL: asimmd
I take the point that Sonar is a DAW and not a Score Program but,when the
notation and score side is not as good as other Daw's available at the moment,
I can't see why Cakewalk continue to ignore the numerous requests for it's
improvement,and there have been many such requests.
Yes,If I wanted to produce a Professional Score for Professional use,then I would use
Finale,or similar but this is my hobby,and I want to be able to use the notation side
to input notes and alter midi files.
Alan
You have a point Alan!  Everything can always get better so I'm “pro†of enhance it overall though. As long Cakewalk doesn't lost the “main†focus that SONAR are made for; working with AUDIO and VST instruments. Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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dbh
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 08:16:08
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I think you're missing the point Freddie. 99% of the people saying "Yes" here aren't looking for Finale/Sibelius and score publication.
They're just looking for a midi editing tool that uses the musical language they understand; notation. Other DAW's have recognised this and made sure that their notation provides what their customer's require in this department.
I personally use all the midi editing tools at my disposal when writing/recording including both piano roll and staff view. They both do different things but are both part of the process. This is very different from score publication. If I wanted to publish scores (as in your scenario above) I would definitely use Finale or Sibelius.
Cheers,
dbh
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Freddie H
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 08:27:42
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ORIGINAL: dbh
I think you're missing the point Freddie. 99% of the people saying "Yes" here aren't looking for Finale/Sibelius and score publication.
They're just looking for a midi editing tool that uses the musical language they understand; notation. Other DAW's have recognised this and made sure that their notation provides what their customer's require in this department.
I personally use all the midi editing tools at my disposal when writing/recording including both piano roll and staff view. They both do different things but are both part of the process. This is very different from score publication. If I wanted to publish scores (as in your scenario above) I would definitely use Finale or Sibelius.
Cheers,
dbh
I'm with you and I'm all “PRO†on that! I think its very important that companies actually listen on there customers. That's the way it always should be! That is why I crossgrade to Cakewalk, SONAR in the first place, because that actually do care and listens on there costumers. Especially in comparisons to other DAW manufactures. Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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vintagevibe
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 14:59:44
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It's a DAW program not a Score program. So if you are interesting making Score, use Finale!
Even though there are a included “lite†score program inside SONAR 8 too “Staffâ€. Its free to use for those users that need to make a score for Piano.
If I'm planing to make a book I will use “Microsoft Word†or “Open office Writeâ€, not SONAR 8, right!
Regards
Freddie
It never fails. You always have several people jump in the middle of notation threads and righteously proclaim: "It's a DAW program not a Score program." First, you need to read the thread. Second, you need to understand that notation is an important part of a DAW program. I use Sibelius but I still need usable notation in my DAW. Maybe I should proclaim: "It's a DAW. That means digital audio. What's all this useless MIDI crap doing here"?
post edited by vintagevibe - 2009/06/01 15:20:26
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southpaw3473
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 15:07:57
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I have no interest in nor use for the Loop Construction or Step Sequencer Views, for example, and I couldn't care less about Beatscape, but I know these are valuable for some. I certainly wouldn't ask that those be removed just because I don't use them. I agree with Susan. There are sooo many features in Sonar, it's really a wonderful program. I, however, don't really need every one. Most of them are very well thought out and although I occasionally use the staff view to write out horn parts for session players, it is not a make or break feature. On the contrary, if the sv was removed altogether it would not be reason enough to even think about leaving Sonar.
We'll not risk another frontal assault-that rabbit's dynamite!!!
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pbognar
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 18:13:59
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ORIGINAL: marce
ORIGINAL: Susan G
I don't know how other DAWs handle notation, but once the door's been opened, when and how do you close it? That's what I meant when I called it a can o' worms. Not that CW couldn't do it, but that it would certainly consume resources and no matter what they did, they couldn't please all the people all the time. After all, the "big boys" haven't yet, and they're dedicated to notation and don't try or pretend to be DAWs at the same time.
Incremental improvements would be good. I literally had to change the meter of some songs just to accommodate the triplet problems in SV so I could provide readable lead sheets, and that shouldn't be necessary in any modern DAW with a notation view. That was the tipping point for me to investigate other solutions. I'm sure for others it's something else.
-Susan
Hi. I have been posting some screenshots about what i would like to see in Sonar and other cake products about SV. (here
Im using Music Creator, and the main reason to do that is that in the low range price is the only daw that have some kind of staff view. Recently, another user pointed to me to "Multitrack Studio", a low price DAW that now has StaffView, with multiple tracks at time, triplets, and some other things. I must say, i gave it a try, and beyond i believe it is not so handy and useable like the SV of cakewalk, it has the potential to be better very quickly!
The interesting thing is that the program i mentioned is developed by ONE man. And that the code, i believe, is fresh compared to the cakewalk one.
So, not im promoting other programs. I feel more comfortable with cakewalk. BUT I believe that if you dont give it some priority, you will lost points with your users.
For comparison reasons, to someone interested in know, this are the DAWs i know that have some kind of notation features:
Sonar
Cubase
Logic
Samplitude
And in the low range price:
Music Creator (same features than Sonar)
Music Studio Producer (a freebie a little weird)
Multitrack Studio
RoseGarden (Linux)
Given the response from Alex, and so as to not bother those who don't use the staff view, perhaps we should start a new thread: "What features should the new Sonar staff editor have?" BTW: add to the above list Samplitude Music Studio 15 ($89) - the program takes a little getting used to and has some limitations, but we can certainly learn from it's MIDI editor - I'm evaluating it now, and I'll try to put up a jpg...
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barlowjam
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 21:14:13
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Whenever I am doing orchestration I always like to, as another user put it, SEE the music. For me - it always helps my ears to zoom into various parts when I can see the notation. When writing for I violin, II violin, viola, cello, basses, etc. It is crucial to be able to see the notation while doing the arrangment.
The old joke is, "How do you make a guitar player play more slowly? You put a chart in front of him!"
Though I am a guitar player I have always made it a point to force myself to read and be comfortable with the scoring/notation process. There are a lot of guitar players that would be well served to get more into notation and the way things look on the page. You can learn a lot that way. And if Sonar's SV feature was better, it would help in that respect. I think it is sad and even cynical that they don't make more of an effort in that regard. Kinda like they are saying, 'Most of our users are guitar players and they're too f*#cking dumb to read music anyway so who cares'.
I've always felt that Cakewalk underestimates their own customers. A very strange tendancy for a company IMHO.
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vmw
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 21:38:31
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ORIGINAL: Freddie H
It's a DAW program not a Score program. So if you are interesting making Score, use Finale!
Regards
Freddie
You are missing the point - notation in a DAW is a valid method of composing, editing and reviewing a composition. It seems most users accept that a final score for reading by other musicians is best done in a sophisticated notation program. Even then the music is still up to individual interpretation because of the conventions of notation. As a SV user I want it for composing, editing and reviewing a composition without the current shortfalls, which make it a less than pleasurable operation.
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marce
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 21:46:59
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ORIGINAL: pbognar
BTW: add to the above list Samplitude Music Studio 15 ($89) - the program takes a little getting used to and has some limitations, but we can certainly learn from it's MIDI editor - I'm evaluating it now, and I'll try to put up a jpg... Hi Pbognar. I dont knowed about that program. The midi editor really looks interesting, it overcomes some of the limitations of Sonar! Im trying a demo of it. (an screenshot in my computer http://stashbox.org/531436/MusicStudio.jpg ) BUT, you know, even if cakewalk become to the level this proggi is, features like VSTExpression will be missed. Like Mom says "If you will do it, do it WELL!". If Cakewalk will improve score view, and they need to re-write the thing, i believe they need to do this very well. So, in 15 years we can start again the "SV is outdated" threads ;)
Alex Westner wrote:
But like I said, we've been reading along for quite some time now, and I believe we understand what needs to be done. It's more a matter of scheduling and prioritizing on our side.
So is good this kind of users post. At least they give you a help in prioritizing it. Myself, as a music teacher, will be glad that you give your attention to the SV. Thanks
post edited by marce - 2009/06/01 22:00:14
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Susan G
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 21:52:39
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Hi James- There are a lot of guitar players that would be well served to get more into notation and the way things look on the page. You can learn a lot that way. I was fortunate in that I had both classical piano and classical guitar training at an early age. I never studied jazz piano, but my jazz guitar lessons were always based on notation and theory, with a healthy dose of chord chart reading, of course! Sight-reading [classical guitar] music was always one of my strengths, and it was a real kick bringing something to life from what was notated on a page I'd never seen before! If you can read music, you see the recognizable scales, chords, patterns, blah, blah. I wouldn't want to not know how to read them! Thanks- -Susan
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riojazz
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 22:34:22
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Dear Alex Westner, is there anything we users can do to encourage you to raise your priority for staff view improvements? What evidence would help you justify devoting more resources to this?
Speaking just for myself, this is the only improvement I would like to see in SONAR 9. It's that important. Thank you.
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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pbognar
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 22:42:15
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ORIGINAL: Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
ORIGINAL: pbognar
ORIGINAL: marce
ORIGINAL: Susan G
I don't know how other DAWs handle notation, but once the door's been opened, when and how do you close it? That's what I meant when I called it a can o' worms. Not that CW couldn't do it, but that it would certainly consume resources and no matter what they did, they couldn't please all the people all the time. After all, the "big boys" haven't yet, and they're dedicated to notation and don't try or pretend to be DAWs at the same time.
Incremental improvements would be good. I literally had to change the meter of some songs just to accommodate the triplet problems in SV so I could provide readable lead sheets, and that shouldn't be necessary in any modern DAW with a notation view. That was the tipping point for me to investigate other solutions. I'm sure for others it's something else.
-Susan
Hi. I have been posting some screenshots about what i would like to see in Sonar and other cake products about SV. (here
Im using Music Creator, and the main reason to do that is that in the low range price is the only daw that have some kind of staff view. Recently, another user pointed to me to "Multitrack Studio", a low price DAW that now has StaffView, with multiple tracks at time, triplets, and some other things. I must say, i gave it a try, and beyond i believe it is not so handy and useable like the SV of cakewalk, it has the potential to be better very quickly!
The interesting thing is that the program i mentioned is developed by ONE man. And that the code, i believe, is fresh compared to the cakewalk one.
So, not im promoting other programs. I feel more comfortable with cakewalk. BUT I believe that if you dont give it some priority, you will lost points with your users.
For comparison reasons, to someone interested in know, this are the DAWs i know that have some kind of notation features:
Sonar
Cubase
Logic
Samplitude
And in the low range price:
Music Creator (same features than Sonar)
Music Studio Producer (a freebie a little weird)
Multitrack Studio
RoseGarden (Linux)
Given the response from Alex, and so as to not bother those who don't use the staff view, perhaps we should start a new thread: "What features should the new Sonar staff editor have?"
BTW: add to the above list Samplitude Music Studio 15 ($89) - the program takes a little getting used to and has some limitations, but we can certainly learn from it's MIDI editor - I'm evaluating it now, and I'll try to put up a jpg...
Do what you will, of course... 
But like I said, we've been reading along for quite some time now, and I believe we understand what needs to be done. It's more a matter of scheduling and prioritizing on our side.
Alex, I really DO understand what's going on from an ROI perspective, and I have a post on the thread indicating that I wouldn't jump ship based solely on the current state of the staff view - there are a lot of other things which Sonar has going for it... It would take a combination of features which I couldn't live without  I just thought that at this point in the thread, we are beating a dead horse. We've established that users who read music are quite fond of interacting with a nice staff view, and others couldn't care less. I was just proposing that we establish a thread for input on how we might like to see the SV evolve - however - if your team knows what needs to be done, perhaps it isn't necessary. Best Regards
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InstrEd
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 22:43:09
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ORIGINAL: riojazz
Dear Alex Westner, is there anything we users can do to encourage you to raise your priority for staff view improvements? What evidence would help you justify devoting more resources to this?
Speaking just for myself, this is the only improvement I would like to see in SONAR 9. It's that important. Thank you.
+1 Well I can think of other things people want. More flexible routing has been batted around. Plus I would love to see a macro recorder added, but I really wish Staff/view was but on the front burner. I was messing around for my wife with a counter melody and wanted triplets in a run and sorry no go. Simple little one page melody and I had to start over and do it in Finale. Might of been fine if I was messing around in Finale, but I was in Sonar that has a staff view and it is really sub-par. Alex pretty please put some attention to staff view. Thanks in advance for getting this done for your customers
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pbognar
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/01 22:49:57
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ORIGINAL: marce
ORIGINAL: pbognar
BTW: add to the above list Samplitude Music Studio 15 ($89) - the program takes a little getting used to and has some limitations, but we can certainly learn from it's MIDI editor - I'm evaluating it now, and I'll try to put up a jpg...
Hi Pbognar. I dont knowed about that program. The midi editor really looks interesting, it overcomes some of the limitations of Sonar! Im trying a demo of it. (an screenshot in my computer http://stashbox.org/531436/MusicStudio.jpg )
BUT, you know, even if cakewalk become to the level this proggi is, features like VSTExpression will be missed.
Like Mom says "If you will do it, do it WELL!". If Cakewalk will improve score view, and they need to re-write the thing, i believe they need to do this very well. So, in 15 years we can start again the "SV is outdated" threads ;)
Alex Westner wrote:
But like I said, we've been reading along for quite some time now, and I believe we understand what needs to be done. It's more a matter of scheduling and prioritizing on our side.
So is good this kind of users post. At least they give you a help in prioritizing it. Myself, as a music teacher, will be glad that you give your attention to the SV.
Thanks
Marce, That is exactly the kind of screen shot I was going to upload - I just didn't know how to paste it into my post, and by the time I got home, you had posted the kind of image I was going to post. As Alex says, it's not a matter of what by rather when. So there is hope, and I'm sure that something good will come for those who choose to wait.
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Muzock
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/02 09:45:47
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I often use the staff view. I have no dought that Sonar is not a scoring program. But, I don't understand that nothing have been done to put this option better since the beginning in the 90's.
But, I understand that there will be a big cost if Cakewalk gives the shot it needs. This big cost will unfortunatly rebond in the price to the customers. I think, that's why nothing is done et that's why we are all still here trying to get the things better.
I suggest that with every up grade there is a small amelioration in the staff view at least.
Why not?
G.
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kicksville
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/02 11:51:43
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I've been lurking around these various notation threads for a long time, but it seems like now's the time to open my big fat mouth To answer the OP, I do ALL my initial programming using notation, and use the event list to tweak when necessary. The only time I ever use the piano roll is for the controller pane. I even have all my Battery kits set up so the drums are laid out as if I were writing out a real drum kit part (main kick=F, main snare=C, etc.). As a trained musician, using notation has always been a more intuitive way to work than trying to interpret the piano roll. And this is not saying that there aren't certain things you can do more easily using the piano roll - it's just not how I visualize the music when I'm working. Despite the fact I've gotten used to the notation quirks in SONAR, there are a few really basic things that I would love to see addressed, most of which have already been mentioned. One thing that drives me absolutely insane is the tuplet issue that never seems to get fixed. [Aside to the overworked programmers at Cake: please, guys, if you do nothing else, PLEASE let me draw triplets properly and 5:4 groupings and such...please?] What keeps getting lost here is that many of the people like me who use SONAR's staff view extensively for programming/composing are NOT asking for a "scoring" program. Not. As others have already said, this is not a DAW vs. notation editor situation. (Personally, I'm so old-school, it's faster and cleaner for me to hand-write a lead sheet than to lay it out in Finale or Sibelius. Your mileage may vary... ) However, there are some basic improvements to the staff view that would greatly enhance both workflow and creativity for those of us who use it so much. How much of that can get squeezed into the production schedule is another question.... Did I mention we're not talking about adding a full-fledged scoring program to SONAR?
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trident fan
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RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2009/06/22 23:06:42
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ORIGINAL: kicksville
I've been lurking around these various notation threads for a long time, but it seems like now's the time to open my big fat mouth
To answer the OP, I do ALL my initial programming using notation, and use the event list to tweak when necessary. The only time I ever use the piano roll is for the controller pane. I even have all my Battery kits set up so the drums are laid out as if I were writing out a real drum kit part (main kick=F, main snare=C, etc.). As a trained musician, using notation has always been a more intuitive way to work than trying to interpret the piano roll. And this is not saying that there aren't certain things you can do more easily using the piano roll - it's just not how I visualize the music when I'm working.
Despite the fact I've gotten used to the notation quirks in SONAR, there are a few really basic things that I would love to see addressed, most of which have already been mentioned. One thing that drives me absolutely insane is the tuplet issue that never seems to get fixed. [Aside to the overworked programmers at Cake: please, guys, if you do nothing else, PLEASE let me draw triplets properly and 5:4 groupings and such...please?]
What keeps getting lost here is that many of the people like me who use SONAR's staff view extensively for programming/composing are NOT asking for a "scoring" program. Not. As others have already said, this is not a DAW vs. notation editor situation. (Personally, I'm so old-school, it's faster and cleaner for me to hand-write a lead sheet than to lay it out in Finale or Sibelius. Your mileage may vary... ) However, there are some basic improvements to the staff view that would greatly enhance both workflow and creativity for those of us who use it so much. How much of that can get squeezed into the production schedule is another question....
Did I mention we're not talking about adding a full-fledged scoring program to SONAR?
Absolutely i want to do all my piano parts in staff view. listen to this guy, cakey regards, TF
post edited by trident fan - 2009/06/23 05:21:58
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TroySterling
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 00:22:50
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As a composer for film, I use it all the time. I've used it since the EARLY cakewalk days. In fact, it's what keeps me using Sonar. If they removed it or made it less useful, I'd drop Sonar in a flash.
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Marah
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 00:28:05
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....or made it less useful....
I don't think there's much chance of that happening.
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Susan G
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 00:33:22
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Hi Troy- As a composer for film, I use it all the time. I've used it since the EARLY cakewalk days. In fact, it's what keeps me using Sonar. If they removed it or made it less useful, I'd drop Sonar in a flash. I'm curious how you get around some of the obvious limitations folks have been complaining about for years, like one of my favorites  , its handling of triplets. From Help (emphasis mine): ● Triplets must occur in full sets of three. ● All three steps in a triplet must be notes ( no rests) of the same basic duration. ● There can be no ties in or out of, or within the triplet. Thanks- -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
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TroySterling
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 00:49:47
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Hello Susan,
In a word(or two): step entry. I'll fool it by doing step entry and when I really need the detail, I'll enter the notes via piano roll. In the staff view I change the note resolution and try to get it as close as possible.
I'm probably one of the few people using Sonar the way I do - almost entirely by Staff View. I'll use the track view for reference, but I'm mostly inside of the staff.
I use Sonar for the mock-ups and export a midi to be cleaned up in Finale or Sibelius afterwards anyway. When it comes to printing out of Sonar - forget it, as you probably know, it is horrible. Thus, the export to Finale.
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Susan G
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 00:55:18
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TroySterling
Hello Susan,
In a word(or two): step entry. I'll fool it by doing step entry and when I really need the detail, I'll enter the notes via piano roll. In the staff view I change the note resolution and try to get it as close as possible.
I'm probably one of the few people using Sonar the way I do - almost entirely by Staff View. I'll use the track view for reference, but I'm mostly inside of the staff.
I use Sonar for the mock-ups and export a midi to be cleaned up in Finale or Sibelius afterwards anyway. When it comes to printing out of Sonar - forget it, as you probably know, it is horrible. Thus, the export to Finale.
Ah, I see. That makes sense, thanks. -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
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LpMike75
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 01:27:11
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Personally, I don't buy into the argument of "this is a DAW not a scoring program"
I am taking a reasonable guess that 'most' people buy this software to create music themselves and not for the exclusive purpose of recording and engineering other peoples music. If we accept this idea than we can say a majority of musicians that use Sonar use it to create music as well as record it.
Music notation is a great tool for 'creating' music and really is a necessity if you are going to write parts for other musicians to play. To me, it is silly to think of a 'musical workstation' that did not have a solid notation program. Yes I realize that not everyone would use it, but heck not everyone uses Beatscape, Matrix View, Dimension Pro etc.
There is no doubt (you can quote me on this) that in the not so distant future there will be a FULL notation program within one of the major DAW softwares. I don't know who it will be but it's obvious that it will happen. I would like it to be Sonar as it's the only program I know and have ever used.
I realize that there are more non-professional musicians that use Sonar than professional musicians, so that is presumably why they concede the notation problems in favor if giving us more plug-ins and matrix views. I still see no reason that a DAW software cannot containt a full notation. Sonar was the first to go completely 64 bit, if they were also the first to make their own full notation program (even if it conatained slightly less options than Finale or Sibelius) they certainly would be setting a high standard that very few others could keep up with. Cubase is a popular program for scoring, I bet you many of those users would switch to Sonar for the ease of using one program for their music creation instead relying on ReWire which may or may not work.
To sum up, I think Sonar should make a full music notation software to replace the current staff view. Yes, staff view and a full notation program is not a necessary for alot of users, but on the other side of the coin it IS necessary for alot of other users. As stated above people use their DAW for music creation, creating music on paper (notation) is a no "less important" and in fact is more important when you are composing for other musicians as well, and/or scoring.
Of course, for the people who say that a full notation project would be too big of a undertaking and would take away resources for fixing YOUR specific workflow problem or creating MatrixView2 I say it's going to happen by someone anyhow, lets hope its by Sonar who can take credit for setting a new high standard for all DAW's to follow instead of burying your head in the sand and hoping that change never happens. Embrace the revolution!! WHO'S WITH ME.......?!
/trips and falls off soapbox
-Mike
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TroySterling
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 03:04:22
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I'm definitely with you Mike. If Sonar had the notation functionality that Finale or Sibelius does, I'd certainly upgrade.
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TroySterling
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 03:10:55
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And Susan, just to clarify further: if I wanted a triplet figure with, say, the second of the 3 silent, I'd just drop the velocity of that note to inaudible on the piano roll. That way, on a midi export into Finale, it isn't as much of a mess. I just enter a marker on notation issues to remind me on export.
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papa2005
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 03:22:16
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Troy,
If you have Finale, why are you using SONAR to enter notes into Staff View? From your previous posts I'm presuming you aren't actually playing a MIDI keyboard but you're manually drawing in the notes. If I'm wrong please correct me. I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my head around your method...
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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synthmann
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 03:30:11
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i often use staff view but not for notation purposes. Often I feel the need to visualize the music and since I've had some years of music education looking at what I'm producing in staff view often gives me the information/overview I need. It's the language you can read and write in so to speek. I also like to make edits to individual notes in staff view because I can instantly see if a 16th becomes a 16th triplet etc. I have never been able to get used to piano roll view.
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noldar12
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 05:01:03
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Well, still same old, same old...
Can't even do triplets... let alone what if you want to do something more complex than that? I also have a specifc need to be able to control the screen colors of the notation display, which is not possible.
Sonar for working out a better mockup after writing a piece? Yes. Using the existing staff view in Sonar to do serious composition? No.
I will admit that I prefer to work first and foremost in notation, probably in large measure because my interests lie more in "classical" style composition. I do find Sonar and PRV a most useful tool after a piece is completed.
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noldar12
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Re: RE: Staff view - how many users seriously use it?
2010/05/18 05:10:15
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Oh, a couple other comments...
As a long time Finale user, Finale's playback abilities have increased considerably over the years (though still not that close to what can be done through edits in a sequencer like Sonar).
The flip side is that Sonar has done nothing to improve notation over the years.
IMO, the first company to really combine excellent notation and excellent sequencing in one package could have a real advantage.
OTOH, the nature of what is required in notation is sometimes at cross purposes with editing a sequence (one example: precise note location vs. random human timing).
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