Starting to worry that Sonar is becoming 'My Dad's DAW'...

After seeing all of these posts with people complaining about having to use Twitter (...as an option, no less) ,  I'm really starting to worry that the core market for Sonar seems to be losing touch with not only current communication trends but modern music making in general.
 
I recently posted a forum topic proposing a feature that I thought would really set Sonar apart from other DAWs and was a bit disappointed in the level of response. It appears that most forum members aren't really interested in loop-based recording, which is a key feature in one of the most popular DAW's around right now Ableton Live. I'm also pretty sure that 'Project 5' came about as a result of 'Live's' popularity.
 
A while back I posted about Sonar's lack of support for pen/touch interface. Again I got a couple of responses but the reality is that few people seemed concerned. This is despite that fact that Microsoft is really touting pen/touch support as one of the key enhancements in Windows 7. As it stands right now Sonar is pretty much unusable on a tablet PC. In all fairness, so is Ableton Live right now, but they have at least publically stated that they are working to improve pen support. Some newer DAWs like Reaper have no problem at all with pen and touch support.
 
Yesterday, I was messing around with Sonar 8 my laptop and decided to try something that I really wasn't expecting to work. Using a stereo bluetooth headset as an audio device. Now, I know that the sound quality and latency would be horrible and that no one would ever actually use one for real recording, but technically there is no reason that it shouldn't work for basic monitoring.  I was finally able to get Sonar to see the device and stop complaining about sample rate mis-matches and such but I could never get it to actually output thru the headset. So I downloaded and installed the latest release of Reaper and I had audio playing thru the bluetooth headset in no time.
 
I know that many of us (...I'm over 40 myself, so this isn't ageism) can't really see it right now but the youth market of today wants access to everything from everywhere. They want to curl up on the sofa and work on their latest club banger smash hit without being constrained by mice cords or headset wires. They have the attention spans of knats and they don't have the brand loyalty that we and our parents had.  If one product isn't giving them what they want they have no qualms about moving to another. They also don't like talking on the phone, they prefer to text. In fact the last project that I recorded (the artist is in Chicago...I'm in Austin) was pretty much handled completely via text messages.
 
I want Cakewalk and Sonar to continue to appeal to younger users. Few businesses can survive for long without bringing in fresh, young users.  If Twitter, Facebook, YouTube is what it takes, we should applaud Cakewalk for reaching out. Of course, in a couple of years the youth market will have moved on to something else (last year it was MySpace), but its still good to see Cakewalk trying to keep up. The last thing we should be doing is slamming them, they have a lot to learn from these new users and we all stand to benefit from it in the long run.
 
BTW, I just received the first tweet to my cell phone from Cakewalk, regarding the first feature in the next version of Sonar. I'm pretty sure that someone has already beat me to posting it to the forums so I won't bother. We all knew that would happen anyway, so I'm amazed that people actually took time to start topics complaining about Twitter users getting first dibs.
 
Things are changing rapidly folks, either learn to be more adaptable to change or expect to be left behind. However, please quit all of the lynchmobbing for this small stuff and go and make some music. I really want this forum to remain a valuable resource for me and its not when half the topics are started by people whining about such small stuff as Twitter.
 
-eB
 

Right on the money, EB!  I'm like you - I'm in my 40s, but my family lives the lifestyles of people in their late 20s.  And, a lot of my productions are based on loop-based music (not the pre-canned stuff, I roll my own ).  I'm pretty active on several of the more popular EDM forums and I see how little of the market share Sonar has amongst those users.  The most unfortunate part of that is that it's actually one of the better DAWs for EDM, but it has the reputation of not being able to do a lot of the things that Live, Cubase, FLS can do (I own all of them as well), when in reality, it does all of those things and often even better than those DAWs can.  But, for some reason, CW doesn't seem to be getting the message across to the younger market.

+1. Good post eB. And I am well past 40 too.

Found your bluetooth experience interesting. I have just bought a Nintendo wiimote with a USB bluetooth device for my PC. Want to get it working as a MIDI controller so I can 'conduct' my expression, etc. Also have a graphics tablet sitting here that Sonar 9 may make use of.

I don't use Twitter, but no sweat. As you say, the news is coming in. Too many folks got too much time to waste moaning. And some of them say that Twitter folk are wasting their time! :) 
My boy (17 year old) is using Acid Pro 7. He has spent many years using loops, so AP7 was a natural choice for him. Loops in Sonar - yes please. And a decent staff view. And... ...
 

Ebony Blue

I recently posted a forum topic proposing a feature that I thought would really set Sonar apart from other DAWs and was a bit disappointed in the level of response. It appears that most forum members aren't really interested in loop-based recording, which is a key feature in one of the most popular DAW's around right now Ableton Live. I'm also pretty sure that 'Project 5' came about as a result of 'Live's' popularity.  

Yeah, people who actually *PLAY* music on an *INSTRUMENT* are so old school and obsolete!!!  Reminds me of the line from Southpark where the kids who are playing Guitar Hero tell the dad who is showing them he can actually play the song on a real guitar, that "real guitars are for old people."

I think the negative reaction was based on the implication that we had to use Twitter to find out about the new features, as though they were not going to post them any other way.

As this has turned out not to be the case, the whole thing is now moot.

I still think marketing to "twits" is marketing to the segment most likely to pirate the software, hence their tendency to just "throw it away" if it doesn't give them instant satisfaction.

It's not about the crowd of elderly curmudgeons on the forum, then?

Found your bluetooth experience interesting. I have just bought a Nintendo wiimote with a USB bluetooth device for my PC. Want to get it working as a MIDI controller so I can 'conduct' my expression, etc.  

RichardHK

Hey Richard do you think you could update us on this in a new post once you've got it up (. . .and down; this way; that way) working?

Andy

I think the negative reaction was based on the implication that we had to use Twitter to find out about the new features

right on and its was false. People always knee jerk the wrong way. If you dont want ot use twitter, DONT USE IT.
 
If you dont use twitter, what will happen?
NOTHING
It wont make your music worse. yuo do that great on your own already
It wont make your music better
It wont lock you out of your pc so you cant use soanr.
 
so what the hell uis alll the crap about not wanting twitter??  Dont use it, if you dont to..Damn   My god man..
Cj

Looping, jet travel, twitter....shock of the new.

I don't really see what's so hard about clicking twice to see what new feature cakewalk have come up with. It's unbelievable how many nitpickers there are among the music community. If they had it their way all this time, we would still be typing commands in DOS.

Cakewalk is actively pursing to find something new, interesting for their customers. 

Also, I agree with the original poster.

papa2005

A friend of mine's 18-year old daughter was killed in an automobile accident just recently. She was texting at the time of the accident. No other cars were involved. She was simply not paying attention and lost control of her vehicle. Says a lot about the merits of texting, doesn't it?
 

No, it says a lot about poor decision-making and personal responsibility.  That's a terrible story and thankfully no one else was hurt by her stupidity (yes, it was tragic, but also a very f@#%ing stupid thing to do that put herself and other people at risk), but the problem is not texting.  People have suffered similar fates while shaving in their car - that doesn't say anything about the merits of shaving, does it?

I remember when we were invited to make Cakewalk our friend on MySpace so we could be the first to get up to the minute news on MySpace. I think I got like two email messages and then nothing. I always sign up for regular email news with companies that I think are going to benefit me with their product offerings (DAW & plug-in makers especially). I prefer standard email because it's the first thing I check every morning when I log on. I think I get one a year from Cakewalk if even that. I guess email is the least preferred method for large companies because of the spam filters? I don't know.

All this stuff sounds great on paper but the reality is a whole lot different than it first appears. And this isn't specific to Cakewalk either. I have to practically beg other companies for news blips about products I'm interested in. My prediction? This will all blow over soon enough.

On another note, if my business is any barometer... I'll be generous and call the younger generation anyone under 40. I can tell you flat out that the majority of my "young" clients are PC challenged. I'm continually amazed at how many don't even own a PC.  The few that are even willing to dabble in desktop recording are using whatever they can get their hands on for free. Good luck trying to sell a Mustang to a kid who can only afford public transportation.

And I'm pretty sure if you found out your sister was getting married from your cousin's, nephew's, aunt's, next door neighbor, you'd be a little annoyed? Just a teensy bit? :-) I expect to get first hand news here, where I hang out. Not through the grapevine. Oh well. Better things to worry about. Have a great weekend ya'll!

If they had it their way all this time, we would still be typing commands in DOS.

And we'd LIKE it!

Ebony Blue
 
The way that I described is just one way of working that works for me and I can easily see other people enjoying it as well. I work in a cubicle all day staring at computer monitors. Lately, I've found that during the initial stages of a new project its much more inspiring if I can untether myself from my main DAW and kick-back on the deck or in the media room and mess around with new song ideas. One benefit to this approach is it helps break me of old habits. In the beginning of a project, I'm not too worried about having pristine sound quality. In fact, I've even found that if I can make something that grabs me using less than stellar gear, it generally only sounds better once I transfer it to my main DAW.
  -eB

This is a good thread. I agree with everybody (just about)...

It does seem logical to manufacture a product that will accomodate users of all levels BUT on the other hand... SONAR seems to me to be a high quality production tool that I go to when the material COUNTS.

I also totally agree with the idea of a "scratchpad" creative session... often, unfettered by "proper technique"... I'm much more apt to freewheel with ideas and it's fun too!

Hi eB-

A bunch of "current" users basically flew off the handle and responded like Cakewalk had announced that the only way to continue using Sonar would be if you created a Twitter account.

I certainly never said that, and I don't recall seeing anyone else saying it. It's not about "using" SONAR, it's about being updated via e-mail or the forums about CW news without having a Twitter account, that's all.

-Susan