Helpful ReplyStuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card...

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KyRo
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2016/08/26 20:44:38 (permalink)

Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card...

Hey guys,
 
I recently installed a new graphics card (NVIDIA GeForce GT-730) in my computer, and now I am experiencing stuttering audio and dropouts during playback of even simple projects, most noticeably in the Track View while scrolling either horizontally or vertically (both by use of the mouse and when auto-scrolling). The audio engine also drops out at times when I'm scrolling around (in take lanes, for example) while not even playing the project.
 
My drivers are up to date and I've disabled all entries for "High Definition Audio" and the like in the Device Manager.
 
I didn't experience this behavior when using my motherboard's old integrated Intel G43/G45 GPU prior to the upgrade.
 
Any ideas what the problem could be and how I might be able to fix it?
 
Thanks!
 
SONAR X3e Producer
Windows 7 64-bit
Intel Core2 Q9650
NVIDIA GeForce GT-730
16GB RAM (upgraded from 10GB at same time as graphics card installation)
post edited by dimelives1 - 2016/08/26 21:11:21
#1
gustabo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/26 20:51:48 (permalink)
Unfortunately I've noticed that it's hit or miss with an NVidia card, that's why I stay with Radeon...
Did you install all the extra crap besides the drivers?


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#2
promidi
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/26 22:22:44 (permalink)
gustabo
Did you install all the extra crap besides the drivers?


I concur. 

When ever I update the Nvidia drivers, I only ever install the base driver and if required the PhysX driver.

Currently the latest NVidia driver is version 372.54.  I am using a GTX560TI (yes, an older NVIDIA card) and everything is smooth (with Splat).

Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
CPU: i5 4670. 
Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

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#3
KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 02:30:18 (permalink)
Thanks for the responses, guys.
 
Yeah, I was sure to only install the driver itself and leave out the 3D, PhysX, and GeForce Experience add-ons.
 
gustabo
I've noticed that it's hit or miss with an NVidia card, that's why I stay with Radeon...
 


Unfortunately, my options were fairly limited - I needed something decent (mostly for another program on my computer), affordable, and that would fit within the confines of a slim tower (low profile) PC. This card was pretty well rated, and at a doable price for me. I wasn't anticipating any issues between it and Sonar.
 
Any chance things would behave any differently in SPlat than in X3?
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scook
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 02:41:16 (permalink)
Is the video card HD audio enabled? If so, try disabling it.
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KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 02:47:40 (permalink)
Hi scook,
 
Yeah, I disabled everything pertaining to High Definition Audio in the Device Manager. Did that right after I installed the video card, before I even noticed any problems.
post edited by dimelives1 - 2016/08/27 03:12:13
#6
scook
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 02:54:09 (permalink)
Sorry, I just saw you did in the OP. I have not used an NVIDIA card in some time. Hopefully someone with experience will offer a suggestion.
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promidi
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 04:03:08 (permalink)
dimelives1
 
Any chance things would behave any differently in SPlat than in X3?



The only definitive way to find out is to try the Splat Demo....

Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
CPU: i5 4670. 
Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

Internet always on.

Software
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ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
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rontarrant
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 05:59:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pgw 2016/09/01 06:16:37
dimelives1
Any ideas what the problem could be and how I might be able to fix it?

I've gone around a few times with this one and found the best way to deal with nVidia cards is to:
  • do a clean install every time
    • under Options, select "Custom",
    • in "Custom Install Options,"
      • click the box next to "Perform a clean installation" (under the boxed area)
      •  deselect HD Audio Drivers (do this as well as disabling them in System Manager)
      • deselect 3D Vision Driver
That should stop most of the interference and here's a guide.
 
You may still have to mess around with background vs. foreground tasks here's another guide for that.
 
Hope this helps.

-Ron T.
----------------------------------------------------------
MSI GE72 2QF-247US, 12 gb, Focusrite 6i6, AT-2020
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Windows 10 x64, Sonar Platinum
#9
Brando
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 08:27:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pgw 2016/09/01 06:16:47
I agree with Ron T's recommendations and would add that at times it may pay to try an older driver to gain a bit of performance/stability. It's one of those things where the newest driver may not always play nice. I use Latency Mon if my system seems glitchy or suffers dropouts after a driver update, and look for high execution time for the nvidia driver sys file on the "drivers" tab. Easy enough to compare an updated driver with a previous by rolling back the driver and comparing under the same conditions.

Brando
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#10
chuckebaby
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/27 10:02:22 (permalink)
I find using onboard video (most Mobo's now a day support dual DVI) is less the headache.
DAW set ups are not like gaming computers, you don't need a great video card.
Even though the GT-730 isn't a great video card to begin with, your really not gaining anything by using it vs using onboard video.

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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#11
KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/30 02:31:28 (permalink)
rontarrant
I've gone around a few times with this one and found the best way to deal with nVidia cards is to:
  • do a clean install every time
    • under Options, select "Custom",
    • in "Custom Install Options,"
      • click the box next to "Perform a clean installation" (under the boxed area)
      •  deselect HD Audio Drivers (do this as well as disabling them in System Manager)
      • deselect 3D Vision Driver
That should stop most of the interference and here's a guide.
 
You may still have to mess around with background vs. foreground tasks here's another guide for that.
 
Hope this helps.



Thank you for the suggestions, Ron. Your time and effort is very much appreciated.
 
I followed your advice to a T, even with one of the first drivers compatible with this card (following Brando's input), but alas, the problems remained.

The quickest and easiest workaround that I've found so far is to just temporarily disable the driver for the card in Device Manager while working in Sonar. The only things I seem to lose visually are the Aero window transparencies and one or two other minor theme customizations (and before anyone asks, yes, I tried disabling the transparency setting itself; no change). Also, the Now Time cursor tracks a little less smoothly during playback. But at least the audio seems to play without missing a beat (no pun intended).

I've been thinking about jumping on the Platinum bandwagon for the lifetime updates. I don't see what would make a difference, and I won't get my hopes up, but it'd be lovely if the card played nicer with the new version.
 
 
chuckebaby
I find using onboard video (most Mobo's now a day support dual DVI) is less the headache.
DAW set ups are not like gaming computers, you don't need a great video card.
Even though the GT-730 isn't a great video card to begin with, your really not gaining anything by using it vs using onboard video.


 
Well, like I was getting at in a previous post, I needed the upgrade for another program (an art program that requires OpenGL, which my onboard graphics did not support). It wasn't a modification geared toward Sonar.

And the card scores 7.0's out of 7.9 in the Win Experience Index, ranks decently enough in benchmark tests, and has positive ratings online, so it can't be all that bad. A couple of years outdated, sure, but nothing I'd call downright poor, especially not for my more truly poor budget :P
#12
KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/30 02:57:38 (permalink)
UPDATE:
 
So here's an odd twist to the conundrum...
 
As I was writing my last post, I had Sonar open in the background. After finishing the post, I switched back over to it (with Firefox still open) and hit play to find what?... Smooth playback. "Huh?" I asked myself as I cocked my head like a confused canine.
 
I proceeded to close Firefox, restarted Sonar, hit play, and... found the stuttering again. I tried opening a few random windows (Computer, My Documents, Notepad, etc.), and tested Sonar again. No change. So, I opened up a new, blank FF window (with the wifi disconnected, even), hit play once more, and lo and behold, glitch-free audio...
 
I'm stumped. What can be gleaned from this? The only thing I can think of is maybe it's some kind of memory issue, like the video card for some reason needs more to do in able to run smoothly in Sonar?... But how would that make any sense?
 
Opening a browser window is even easier than disabling the driver as a workaround, but I'd love to know WHY it's having the effect that it is.
 
Any theories?...
 
#13
Sanderxpander
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/30 03:06:45 (permalink)
My laptop's card starts working notably (it has a rather loud fan) when I have even a background tab with YouTube in it. Possibly, your browser "activates" your card? And it's in low power/sleep mode using Sonar?
#14
cool
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/30 08:04:40 (permalink)
I had a similar problem and I solved it successfully. Generally, it is known problem. Just set the maximum perfomance in the power settings:


English is not my native language. Apologize for any mistakes in the text.
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KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/30 16:14:43 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
My laptop's card starts working notably (it has a rather loud fan) when I have even a background tab with YouTube in it. Possibly, your browser "activates" your card? And it's in low power/sleep mode using Sonar?

 
Hmmm, interesting... I'll have to check if there's a way to adjust the card's "power mode" while using Sonar.
 
 
cool
I had a similar problem and I solved it successfully. Generally, it is known problem. Just set the maximum perfomance in the power settings:



 
Thanks for the suggestion, cool, but I've already had it set that way to help with some browser issues I was experiencing. I'll try applying the setting specifically for Sonar's program, but since it's already set this way under "Global Settings", I don't see that it will likely make a difference.
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abacab
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/30 19:28:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SergeQ 2016/10/26 10:35:35
Something else to consider is IRQ assignment sharing on your motherboard.  You had an empty PCIEx16 slot until you added the nVidia card.
 
The easiest way to look at these shared hardware assignments is to open Device Manager | View | Resources by Connection.  Expand the row with IRQ and scroll down until you see the PCI devices listed. The numbers in parens are the IRQ assignments.  If any devices have the same number, they are sharing interrupts.
 
Windows has permitted IRQ sharing for years, but if two devices don't get along, could be trouble.  My mobo manual breaks out the sharing by slots and controllers, so hopefully I won't do something dumb like put a high bandwidth controller in a PCIEx slot that shares with another busy device
post edited by abacab - 2016/10/26 12:05:37

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#17
KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 02:08:38 (permalink)
Everything seems to check out ok for me on that front, abacab, but thanks all the same for the tip.
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stratman70
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 04:15:41 (permalink)
I have used nothing BUT Nvidea Graphics cards since forever. But I don't update to every new driver. I only update the Manufacturers drivers , Like MSi, or gigabit. Right now I have an MSI Geforce Nvidea 650 Ti Boost. Unless I see a change that is OK for all manufacturers. I mean 20 years and no issues....So I don't believe it's hit and miss. Unless I am lucky enough to HIT every time. Only times I had some issues was updating a driver without checking it out. I am running 2 versions behind on my cards drivers according to Nvidea. MSI I am up to date.
post edited by stratman70 - 2016/08/31 04:38:16

 
 
#19
promidi
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 04:55:09 (permalink)
I have also used only Nvidia cards without any issues.  Currently on an MSI GTX560ti with latest drivers as of 31 Aug 2016.  One thing I always do is disable all adjust the graphics for best performance in the system properties. (Turn off menu animations, turn off areo , etc)

Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
CPU: i5 4670. 
Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

Internet always on.

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: Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
#20
pgw
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 07:18:47 (permalink)
I´ve used NVidia cards for at least 10 years & have had stuttering occur only during the last 8 months, I´m using a Gigabyte 650Ti that might be a bit longtoothed - but it works.

Anyhow:
A: My audio-problems have been related to certain revisions of the Nvidia drivers, so I´ve uninstalled the latest when stutter occurs after an update & it seems like 359.06 (december 2015) is the latest I "need".
I haven´t even bothered looking for new drivers since May.
I.e. try older drivers.

B: I´m on Windows 10 & the latest big updates enabled a couple of services & background apps that I had disabled, which made Sonar seem sluggish - no stuttering though.
From memory the services were related to synchronization between units (tablet, computer, phone etc.), which I don´t have any need for anyway.

I´d also check for unnecessary autostarting background programs (& services), I use Sysinternals Autoruns,  & do a thorough scan with Anti-Malwarebytes & Windows Defender.

Good luck!

Windows 10 (LTSB) - i7 8700 - ASUS GTX1060 -16 GB Corsair Vengeance - Samsung SSD´s - Seagate HD´s - RME FF400 - & too many geetars & amps
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abacab
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 09:46:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pgw 2016/09/01 06:10:53
pgw

I´d also check for unnecessary autostarting background programs (& services), I use Sysinternals Autoruns

Good luck!




Autoruns is the best tool ever.  It is like an advanced "msconfig" where you can see what automatically runs and uncheck anything (including scheduled tasks, services, drivers, codecs, etc).  Be careful though, I have had to boot into Windows safe mode a couple of times to re-check something Windows really needed.
 
You can also set it up to verify code signing, as well as automatically submit hashes to VirusTotal to see the detection rate from 50+ malware scanners for all items in the list.
https://technet.microsoft.../sysinternals/bb963902
 
Sysinternals Process Explorer is an advanced Task Manager, which lets you see all currently running processes.  You can also configure it to verify code signatures, as well as automatically check everything against the VirusTotal database.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653
 
I use these tools all the time to de-crapify my PC and keep it running smooth for audio
post edited by abacab - 2016/08/31 10:10:15

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#22
JonD
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 11:03:12 (permalink)
I have the same graphics card.  No problems from day one.  I did download the most recent WHQL-approved drivers.
 
Windows 8.1 system here with very basic DAW tweaks.  (The rest of my specs are listed below).
 
post edited by JonD - 2016/08/31 15:15:56

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KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 15:50:22 (permalink)
Thanks for the responses, guys.
 
I'm pretty certain I don't have any viruses or anything. And I've tried turning off all the unnecessary background animations and so forth with no change to the issues experienced. And as mentioned earlier, I tried a driver from more than two years ago; again, no change.
 
The behavior only began after installing the graphics card (and additional RAM). Now the only thing that appears to make audio play smoothly (short of disabling the graphics card's driver) is having a Firefox window open in the background, as I described above.
 
I have a similar setup to promidi, just with a somewhat older CPU (which worked fine previously), a slightly newer NVidia, and with him running Platinum while I'm still on X3. I don't know if the upgrade to SPlat will make any difference with the issue, but it'd be nice...
#24
tlw
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 17:35:31 (permalink)
I know it's a hassle to open the case, but does the problem persist if you remove the new RAM?

Have you tried running a PCI bus latency monitoring application like latencymon to see what that reports?

That Firefox thing seems odd though. I wonder if it's something to do with memory allocation by Windows somehow....

The only time I can recall a video card causing audio problems was many, many years ago when the then current Nvidia driver kept polling the cpu/CPI bus like mad. Which is why I stopped using Nvidia then and haven't used an Nvidia card/chipset since. Though AMD have caused one or two headaches over the years as well.

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#25
mettelus
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 18:03:45 (permalink)
The build comment above may be applicable. I remember 359.06 being a stable build. Nvidia began introducing another software component this year (forget the name offhand) but the first few iterations caused issues for me, so I had 359.06 for several months. If you did not specifically delete those, Nvidia leaves the installers in the appropriate sub directory. Also do not forget that a system restore is a quick fix to upgrade issues.
post edited by mettelus - 2016/09/01 04:03:58

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#26
promidi
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/08/31 18:27:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pgw 2016/09/01 06:09:47
Here is an out there thought....  maybe, just maybe you have been unlucky enough to have picked up a faulty GT750 video card.  That Firefox thing certainly lends a small bit of weight to this hypothesis. 

Certainly, if it's possible, would not hurt to swap it out for another card - that is if you can find (or borrow) a comparable one to test this.

Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
CPU: i5 4670. 
Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

Internet always on.

Software
: Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
#27
KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/10/03 02:53:54 (permalink)
Sorry for the delayed response, guys. I was trying some different ideas, including some given here, and haven't had much chance to come report back on here. Long story short, the behavior still persists, to where I've gotten into the habit of just opening up a blank Firefox window when I open a project. It's a simple workaround, but a workaround nonetheless, one I wish I didn't have to do.
 
 
tlw
I know it's a hassle to open the case, but does the problem persist if you remove the new RAM?
 

 
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried removing the new RAM, as well as swapping it all around in multiple configurations, but it made no difference in any case.
 
 
tlw
Have you tried running a PCI bus latency monitoring application like latencymon to see what that reports?


 
I haven't tried that. Do you think the results from such an application would provide any insights into what could be going on?
 
 
mettelus
The build comment above may be applicable. I remember 359.06 being a stable build. Nvidia began introducing another software component this year (forget the name offhand) but the first few iterations caused issues for me, so I had 359.06 for several months. If you did not specifically delete those, Nvidia leaves the installers in the appropriate sub directory. Also do not forget that a system restore is a quick fix to upgrade issues.
 

 
Well like I said in an older post, I tried several older drivers (as old as I could find for this card), but all to no avail for the issue.
 
 
promidi
Here is an out there thought....  maybe, just maybe you have been unlucky enough to have picked up a faulty GT750 video card.  That Firefox thing certainly lends a small bit of weight to this hypothesis. 

Certainly, if it's possible, would not hurt to swap it out for another card - that is if you can find (or borrow) a comparable one to test this.
 

 
Unfortunately, I'm well past the return/exchange date for the card, and I don't currently have access to a comparable one either. I did try removing and reseating this one, but the issue remained.
 
Would you reckon it's a hardware flaw, though? The whole thing with having Firefox open to stabilize performance seems pretty software-centric to me.
 
I don't know; it's weird. But thus is the digital world, eh? :P
#28
promidi
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/10/03 03:38:18 (permalink)
dimelives1
 
Unfortunately, I'm well past the return/exchange date for the card, and I don't currently have access to a comparable one either. I did try removing and reseating this one, but the issue remained.
 


Does your PC motherboard have on board video?  If so, could you not remove the GTX750 and configure your system to use the on board video.

Now, of course, I am only suggesting this as a test and not as a permanent solution.  However, it is certainly worth a try just to rule out the card.  If I was an IT engineer looking at this issue on my machine, I would certainly give this try.

Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
CPU: i5 4670. 
Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

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#29
KyRo
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Re: Stuttering audio and dropouts after installing new graphics card... 2016/10/03 15:13:37 (permalink)
promidi
Does your PC motherboard have on board video?  If so, could you not remove the GTX750 and configure your system to use the on board video.

Now, of course, I am only suggesting this as a test and not as a permanent solution.  However, it is certainly worth a try just to rule out the card.  If I was an IT engineer looking at this issue on my machine, I would certainly give this try.
 

 
Yes, up until recently I had been using the onboard GPU for years with no issues like this. I needed to get the GT-730 to be able to use an unrelated program on my computer that required OpenGL support (of which my onboard graphics had none).
 
Also, like I mentioned in post #12, before I discovered the Firefox workaround, another way that I found to get Sonar running smoothly was to temporarily disable the NVIDIA's driver in Device Manager. Though I'd lose the Windows Aero effects and a few other minor visual qualities, it at least got my projects to run well.
 
So I'm pretty certain the problem is between the rest of my system and the video card, or, at the very least, its drivers (new or old).
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