RexRed... You can make your jokes all you want, fan boys and twerkers.

 
You keep using that word.
 
I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Twerker

RexRed

Sanderxpander
I'm still wondering what stretching/timing option V-Vocal has that Melodyne doesn't. Could anyone enlighten me? I've never missed anything in Melodyne and I didn't like V-Vocal switching its view when I went to the timing tools.

Try spending some time in V-vocal and you will figure it out. I am not that proficient in Melodyne but (i think) In order to stretch large swathes of waves .....

 
The problem is that you have not taken the time to become proficient with Melodyne but you are very proficient with V-Vocal. Use V-Vocal if it works for you, but please don't tell Melodyne users they are amateurs and don't blame the program when you honestly don't know how to use it.
 
Another thing to consider is that the version of Melodyne that ships with Sonar does not have all the features of V-Vocal. You do have to upgrade to Editor - at which point the feature set shifts dramatically in Melodynes favor.
 
Craig, dubdisciple, and Danny (Danzi) have provided extremely positive posts in this rather nasty thread. I'll reiterate what they have said.
1: Use what you want to use.... that is all that matters.
2: V-Vocal is Rolands product, not Cakewalks. Your blaming the wrong company.

codamedia

RexRed

Sanderxpander
I'm still wondering what stretching/timing option V-Vocal has that Melodyne doesn't. Could anyone enlighten me? I've never missed anything in Melodyne and I didn't like V-Vocal switching its view when I went to the timing tools.

Try spending some time in V-vocal and you will figure it out. I am not that proficient in Melodyne but (i think) In order to stretch large swathes of waves .....

This sounds like a case of "old dog learning new tricks"...
 
The problem is that you have not taken the time to become proficient with Melodyne but you are very proficient with V-Vocal. Use V-Vocal if it works for you, but please don't tell Melodyne users they are amateurs and don't blame the program when you honestly don't know how to use it.
 
Another thing to consider is that the version of Melodyne that ships with Sonar does not have all the features of V-Vocal. You do have to upgrade to Editor - at which point the feature set shifts dramatically in Melodynes favor.
 
Both Craig and Danny (Danzi) have provided extremely positive posts in this rather nasty thread. I'll reiterate what they have said. Use what you want to use.... that is all that matters.

I have used the editor version of Melodyne 2.0 with the entire tool set before and it was not a good experience for me. I had most of the basics down within a few hours.
 
Every time I go back to it I say to myself, This is taking too long with too little progress, And then the darn thing freezes up on me because it does not like to handle long vocal tracks and time and time again end up back in V-vocal...
 
I am someone who knows how to use programs like 3D Studio Max, I have programmed a few CAL routines in Cakewalk and was making definition files in POVRAY many years ago. Cakewalk is my prized possession and always has been since I started out on PC's. Melodyne is full featured, I do know that, I just find its ease of use (after the learning curve) time consuming to say the least.
 
 
 
 

Good times:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

I"d take a good Melodyne tutorial, unlike what I'm finding in Youtube.  I've got a window flying out from the left side that takes up about a third of the screen, that  I have no idea why it's doing that and sometimes features work, and most of the time they don't....so I'm not really sure if it's operator error or not.  I can't get it to reliably time streach, as nothing happens unless I hold down the ALT key at the same time, but that only works about 10% of the time....even when the selected tools are seemingly correct.

@Mike Oh BTW as explained previously I always clone the original track to be processed, process it and then finally bounce down to another track. I then archive off the first two tracks, however before do this I play the original and the final track together. If the sound phases or is identical it's good enough for me. So far haven't had an issue.

CakeAlexS
@Mike known issue (on X3E?)
http://forum.cakewalk.com...aspx?m=3009637&p=1

I wonder of vvocal does the same and it is a RegionFx problem?

Ta

V-vocal  does not have any slight lag or jump ahead in the timing of the processed signals in X3e, I have been using it steady from sun up to sun down (other than checking here for new posts, eating and sleeping) the last two weeks.
 
I am currently working on a 17 minute song with 16 vocal tracks, other than an occasional but rare freeze-up everything is stable and fine. 

I just did a test, V-vocal was off by two samples in 24 bit :) Sorry they are so small i had them in take lanes.

Yes, it has problems but I have encountered few software programs that don't.  If this was designed to be a real time application I would be concerned.  This type of issue is kind of like the mother-in-law dropping by with a white glove just to make sure she shows up her her daughter in law by guaranteeing she finds dirt.  It's very rare when it is audibly off.  If I don't actually hear a problem, going out of my way to test for a problem indicates I have too much time on my hands.  Maybe if i was beta testing the product I might go that far but searching for non-audible sample deviation is as the kids would say today just "being a hater".

I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if I am going over old ground but Sony Creative Software also do this marketing  technique of get "super master" with you purchase. 1 or 2 version later it disappears. You are then left with older songs that tell you plugins are missing. These days I take no notice of the smoke and mirrors of new 3rd party features. As you know it will only survive one or 2 versions and to continue you have to buy the full version. Of course you can use extracted VST from the install files :) Don't think I am the first person on this is board to think of this course of action.

The great thing about melodyne is that it uses the same DLL regardless of what version it is, the activation code is solely what changes the version. More software should be like this. With Dim Pro and Rapture there are different builds which is not helpful when upgrading (LE and Pro).

64 bit VST's being not being backward compatible with 32 bit is mainly by design. There is always bitbrige until they are replaced.

BTW there is a replace synth option in the synths rack (right click the instrument).

Wow VVocal is almost 8 years old. Nuff said..

FWIW,
 I did not look for evidence of timing issues until listening to the timing issues started driving me crazy.
 
 
 
 I use pitch correction tools to fix stuff that is off by a few "cents" in an effort to make the "mix" sound "glued". That's what I am looking for in pitch correction tool.
 
 It seems to me that Melodyne has gotten less satisfactory at doing that basic task as it has expanded it's capabilities. I am considering buying Auto Tune 7 as an antidote but from what I can gather a lot of guys, that use these tools for the small adjustments I am interested in, have observed that Auto Tune 5 was a sweet spot and that AT7 introduced the same sort of down graded results as it added more ambitious capabilities. You can read all about it on the internet, but you have to find the forums where guys are comfortable sharing their observations with people that they trust will not ridicule them for pointing out what anyone can observe if they take the time to do so.
 
 I share these observations, such as I have illustrated in the pictures I posted, because I feel that expanded awareness is the only way to create a market demand for excellence.
 
 Hi Craig,
 Thank you for taking the time to look and see for yourself.
 
 
 
 
 
 I have further frustrations with Melodyne Editor and its Melodic Algorithm's implementation of Pitch Drift Correction, but I see that there is an embedded idea that people that make these observations are assumed to be incapable or unwilling to learn how to make use of all the functionality available.
 
 The melodic pitch drift correction functionality has become quirky, the hand edit pitch drift tools do not provide an effective sounding solution, and the over all sound of the correction/drift melodic algorithm processes sound dead and lifeless compared to the results you can obtain with the older Melodyne Plugin math.
 
 I don't expect people who dismiss timing issues to care much about pitch problems, but I know that if one makes the effort to make the best use of, and takes the time to listen to the results of, both Melodyne Editor and the older Melodyne Plugin, for small fine tuning adjustments, that they will learn that two products sound different. In my opinion Editor doesn't sound as transparent or as free from artifacts.
 
 
 I hope that this will be improved with future updates, but I suspect that a fascination with placing vocals outside of a performers capable range, and or converting audio to MIDI, will continue to entertain people to the distraction of the most basic use of these products that purport to offer excellent pitch correction.

Well, that's a nicely laid out post, Mike.
 
I don't really do much with pitch correction - did a little with vocals using V-Vocal, but haven't messed around with Melodyne as of yet, other than to test out the conversion to midi feature when I got X3.
 
It makes sense to me to retain both tools, if one can, and it also makes sense that each has strengths and weaknesses, and that each likely has some set of issues.
 
Like any other tool in our toolboxes, you work within the limits each brings, trying to maximize their effectiveness and application in the process.
 
 
Bob Bone
 

GIM Productions
Sorry Mr.Anderton and sorry Mike to hear your render problems with VVocal especially.......
I love VVocal and i have studied its behavior for years,i  wrote that i use VVocal to fix time and pitch in vocal,bass and sax track.
 

Perhaps I wasn't clear that the timing "drift" issues were with Melodyne, not V-Vocal. However, it's important to emphasize a few crucial points.
 
First, I believe the best pitch correction tool is a punch-in. As long as you can hit the pitch, problem solved. Besides, a corrected pitch is not always a "good" pitch. Sometimes being a little off pitch is essential to give the right feel. When I use pitch correction, I turn off "snap" and move the pitch to what sounds good to my ears.
 
Second, I did an extreme case to find the truth (remember, I'm the guy who did experiments so I could show that recording st 96kHz didn't make an audible sound quality improvement, only to find out that it did under some circumstances). I would never take an entire phrase and transpose it up 4 semitones, I'd use the iZotope transpose algorithm.
 
But for me, from a practical standpoint these issues are irrelevant because of how I use Melodyne. For pitch correction, I only make slight changes in a few places, otherwise I punch. I also use it to generate harmonies and in that case, I often add timing differences anyway on purpose so a few "bonus" milliseconds don't matter. Also, for harmonies Melodyne sounds more natural overall because as noted above, it seems to handle non-tonal vocals sounds (breaths and sibilants) better...I close mic a lot, so that's an issue.
 
Both V-Vocal (stability notwithstanding) and Melodyne can be extremely useful tools and both have unique strengths and limitations. I think the only reason people are getting bent out of shape is that those who've learned to love V-Vocal are upset that it has apparently become a zombie product, and therefore Cakewalk has needed to find an alternate solution with greater potential longevity.