Suggestion - Relabel the Posting as "Polling is ON HOLD for the Orchestral Shootout"
 
Actually, this gives me more time to listen critically and discern differences between my first, second and third choices

We should check the IP address ranges.  I'll bet they trace back to Wall Street Hedge Fund managers LMAO!

Twigman


e-mail voting can easily be corrupt too - many people have several e-mail addresses

Hi, Twig-- I hope you saw the earlier posts from me and Bit--You did Not cause the problem with this poll.

Yes, we've of course talked about how email voting could have problems also, but what are we supposed to do?  We can't just have people post their choices here at the Forum because that would exclude people who aren't Sonar Forum members - People could sign up just to vote, but that's not very convenient.  We need to have the voting accessible to everyone who wants to take some time to listen and then vote.

Any different ideas besides email?

Randy
P.S.--Bit--Hope you see this thread soon - This subject line is very misleading.  It's an easy bet that a lot of people have seen it and interpreted it to mean the contest is over.

LOL I appreciate you easing my guilt (not that I had much as I knew the score).....

It's a tricky thing to tackle and has been a problem since the internetz began...I know that vBulletin forum software includes polling which blocks multiple voting but to set up a forum which requires registration of users just for a poll is a bit OTT especially when you consider the software is not free....

I am not an IT wizard so have no simple solution for you........

Hi, Nprime

You're right that someone with a large, active social network can effectively "stuff the ballot box."  Your concerns points legitimate, we agree and sympathize.  It wouldn't be possible to say that having your friends and family vote for you could be considered "cheating."  The only thing we were trying to prevent on that poll was someone voting more than once from the same computer.

But your post makes me need to be even more specific about what led to the absolute necessity of this poll being deleted last night:

--As I was in the administrator's polling results page, I noticed numbers were going up fast every time I refreshed.  And the entries going up were all from one person.  Obviously the odds that random voters would all be consistently choosing this one person's entries are so astronomical to not be worth considering.

There's more to the story - Suffice it to say, someone was caught with the smoking gun in his hand.  I had no choice to pull the plug on the voting since this person had given one of his entries so many votes, no other entry would ever be able to beat it.  And individual votes can't be erased with that Polldaddy system - you either keep all the votes, or delete all the votes.

Randy B.

Lanceindastudio


haha well I hope you arent changing the order because I dont want to go through all 71 again! lol

Nooooo way, Lance - They'll all have the same numbers - but there are 72, not 71!

Bitflipper - Thanks for the improved subject line.  Much better.

Randy B.

Jose7822

bitflipper

I suspect you might suspect that individual is me.

No, it's not you, Twigman.

It could've been my sister, who voted for me from another computer in the house.  My apologies to everyone if this was the reason for the closing of the poll.  It wasn't done as a way to cheat, so I don't feel bad about that.  But I do feel bad about wasting people's time.  Bit, Randy, you can take me out of the contest if I'm the one responsible for this closing.  Seriously!
 
Take care!
 
 
 
 

No no no, it wasn't you, Jose - I'm trying to make it clear - There was somebody pushing the button over and over on one of his entries.  It wasn't a matter of a friend or two voting for people.

I appreciate the show of honesty on this thread, and am so sorry anyone's feeling guilty when they weren't the culprit(s).

Let's move on - Guilty parties know who they are.  Let's leave it at that.

But the poll wasn't closed because a sister, wife, or friend voted.

Let's hope we can get the new vote happening soon, Today hopefully.

Randy B.

rbowser

Jose7822

bitflipper

I suspect you might suspect that individual is me.

No, it's not you, Twigman.

It could've been my sister, who voted for me from another computer in the house.  My apologies to everyone if this was the reason for the closing of the poll.  It wasn't done as a way to cheat, so I don't feel bad about that.  But I do feel bad about wasting people's time.  Bit, Randy, you can take me out of the contest if I'm the one responsible for this closing.  Seriously!

Take care!

No no no, it wasn't you, Jose - I'm trying to make it clear - There was somebody pushing the button over and over on one of his entries.  It wasn't a matter of a friend or two voting for people.

I appreciate the show of honesty on this thread, and am so sorry anyone's feeling guilty when they weren't the culprit(s).

Let's move on - Guilty parties know who they are.  Let's leave it at that.

But the poll wasn't closed because a sister, wife, or friend voted.

Let's hope we can get the new vote happening soon, Today hopefully.

Randy B.

Good, that makes me feel MUCH better, phew!
 
 

Thomas - I assure you with no hesitation that you did absolutely nothing wrong.  The poll didn't register a vote until selections were made and the Vote button was pushed.

One more time - I want people to hear this - We suspected for awhile that there were entries being artificially inflated in their counts.  Then we got the absolute proof that was the case.  We had no choice but to delete that poll.

The ballot stuffing was flagrant and obvious - Nothing like the small things being reported here, with friends casting a vote etc--Nothing like that.

Randy B.

Here's my suggestion for dealing with the issue of vote cheating affecting who wins the prizes. Separate the award of the prizes from the general poll.

The general poll's only purpose would be to see how forum members, or others, feel about the various entries. In my opinion, this would still be interesting and valuable information. But it wouldn't have anything to do with the prizes, so there would be no incentive to cheat.

The prizes would be awarded by the decision of a small panel of objective reviewers, perhaps including someone from Garritan. In fact, if anyone has connections at any of the other orchestral library creators, they could be on the panel too. I realize it may be a little difficult to put this panel together, and there could still be complaints that the panel was biased somehow, but I think most people would be more likely to respect the outcome of the prize awards.

An additional idea I had for the contest is to have several categories, perhaps for both the general poll and the panel to vote on. There could be categories such as "best overall", "most creative", "best use of articulations", "sounds most like a concert orchestra", "sounds most like a movie soundtrak", etc.

Just some ideas. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Hi, Ptheisen - Thank you for your message.  I don't disagree or agree with all the suggestions you posted, they're all moot points.  The contest already has two co-chairpeople who have discussed and settled on the parameters, have put it together etc - It's in motion, it's not something to be started over.

We had our rough bump with the poll, but that wasn't our fault.  We're carrying on, stand by, the contest will proceed, and under the guidelines already established.

Thanks.

Randy B.

Hi, Thomas - I appreciate your thoughts.  Like I said earlier in reply to ptheisen, the contest has already been thought out and set up by me and David Bitflipper.  We're not going to re-do things now.  I understand confidence is shaken right now because of the Polldaddy problem, but that wasn't our fault.  A new voting system is being worked on as I type this.

Randy

That's an interesting idea - it would remove the spoofing and vote-rigging opportunities.
It's slightly less "democratic", but as evidenced by the situation we are in, democracy is not without its challenges .
 
The "judges" could have quite a bit of discussion in live IM/chats to weigh and finalize their decisions.
The key will be getting a diverse group of judges.
 
UPDATED:  Having said the above - I think Bit and Randy have this under control.  I defer to their judgement.

Interesting news, Randy!

Let the polling resume?!

Well, it looks like we have a solution. Voting is now open again!

Previous votes will, unfortunately, have to be scrapped. My sincere apologies to everyone who already voted. I hope you remembered which ones you voted for!

The entries are still up and can be auditioned here. Only the poll link has been removed. Here's how to vote:

---

• Voting will be by email. Send your votes to orchestralshootout@hotmail.com. (Just once, please!)
• List the numbers of up to three entries, with your top pick at the top of your list.
• Also include your real name and/or forum handle.

I promise no one will find themselves on any spam lists as a result of giving up their anonymity, and no one's name will be mentioned in any public follow-up conversations without their express permission.

---

I am going to call this thread closed now, and start afresh with a new one. Thanks again to all for your participation and patience.

Cheers,
Dave Townsend (bitflipper)