The SONAR 8.3 Log

What a Love Fest!

And its now official......SONAR is the best DAW. Spread the love.

Well thats why 8.3 works so well, Thank Noel

Tom

hmm that doesn't sound like the way Noel talks.

Actually, I was a little confused when, right after asking me to answer, Noel decide to do it himself as well, but - hey - that's what temperamental, creative geniuses are like. Still, apart from slight differences of tone, I don't think that the two sets of answers are very far apart.

ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

We’re happy to see so many of you enjoying SONAR 8.3. I know some of you enjoy the trivia that goes into a release so here is the unabridged version of what went into SONAR 8.3 aka “the making of SONAR 8.3” aka the 8.3 fine print. If details aren’t what you like wading through, just go ahead and enjoy using the product and skip this – what you don’t know wont hurt you :-)

I just love these fine print threads. Superb! So much additional detail.

I added some more documentation foe the "PDC Override For Live Tracks" feature from our design notes, to explain some common questions about this feature.

ORIGINAL: Jonbouy

...Great post...I can see myself moving up from 7 because of this and the feedback it's getting...dang, and I promised I wouldn't be spending any more money this year!

...simple matter (well, money matters aside, of course...) ... if Sonar 7 DOES the job you want... Sonar 8 "is" what you need...
I mean, if you "can" upgrade... you must....

Hi, Noel,

It's really awesome that you take the time to come in here and answer questions... I wish the Vista people afforded us the same courtesy, I sure have a few for them. :-)

Anyway, just wondering about this point:

>>But do you think the extra work you've all done here may literally raise the bar from your standpoint for the future?
We strive to raise the bar on stability every version we do. As I said above its all about how much of the end user experience we cover in our testing. The test matrix for SONAR is mind bogglingly massive so its physically impossible to test every user interaction with the program. This is where our beta testers help out.

Does this imply that no part of the regression test matrix is automated? I think, through my own experience with .0 versions and older seldom-used plugins, I know the answer, but it would be great to get the real scoop - are beta testers the first and last round of defense against bugs? Between Sonar's own automation potential (including CAL) and outside products (SilkTests and such), there must be a way to control regressions prior to beta testing.

edit: spelling/grammar

You left out our internal QA who are our first line of defence :-) They find and log the greatest number of bugs.
Today we automat only a few tests but they are basic. Many tests that involve the user interface or audio streaming are difficult to automate. Or even if we did automate them it would be a large effort to keep the tests themselves up to date and in sync. Plus you need someone to code the tests.

I can really appreciate all that has been added/repaired/redesigned in 8.3. It's just great stuff. I'm sure everyone has their own pet issue and mine is BOUNCE TO CLIPS. In certain pan law settings the BTC command subtracts 3db. It's been happening for awhile and it is a daily hassle for me. IE and all the PDC options are very cool features that I will now be able to work into my routine but BTC is something I NEED every time I'm working. I don't use it as much as I would prefer because I have to change to another pan law setting where it's not broken and then change back. Unfortunately I prefer the pan behavior of one of the broken settings. Please fix this simple and necessary command before V9.

If it's not broken then please take a moment to explain why BTC should subtract 3db in certain pan laws and not others.

Thank you, William

wmb,

If I recall, there is mention of this in the Readme.doc file that comes with SONAR. It list the currently known bugs and suggested workarounds . . . I think I remember them talking about the -3db thing in there . . . check it out

ORIGINAL: wmb

I can really appreciate all that has been added/repaired/redesigned in 8.3. It's just great stuff. I'm sure everyone has their own pet issue and mine is BOUNCE TO CLIPS. In certain pan law settings the BTC command subtracts 3db. It's been happening for awhile and it is a daily hassle for me. IE and all the PDC options are very cool features that I will now be able to work into my routine but BTC is something I NEED every time I'm working. I don't use it as much as I would prefer because I have to change to another pan law setting where it's not broken and then change back. Unfortunately I prefer the pan behavior of one of the broken settings. Please fix this simple and necessary command before V9.

If it's not broken then please take a moment to explain why BTC should subtract 3db in certain pan laws and not others.

Thank you, William

I agree William. I use -3dB center when I mix and have to switch back to 0dB Center to bounce to clips or export mono tracks. It's a drag. Have you reported it to cakewalk as a bug?

P.S.
Really nice video btw. You're getting a great sound from your studio.

I reported it as a bug quite some time ago. I also champion it on the forum from time to time. I'm pretty busy so It's been tough to try to make a frequent stink about it. I do try to bring it up from time to time just to spread the word. Social engineering.

Thanks for the compliments on the video. I've actually booked to two jobs because of that clip. Total surprise considering I was mostly trying to make the artist look good and just having a good time with the whole thing.

Cheers.

ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

>>Now that this release is probably what most (as well as you guys at Cake) would be happy with, will you still have a
>>strict deadline to put out a Sonar 9 or whatever by October?

That's been Cakewalk's business model forever - We do need to make money :-)

Had you considered there might be another way to secure or even increase profits? Such as guaranteeing the stability, fluidity and user friendliness of a major release, alongside the simple act of putting it out there and listing a bunch of new features?

What if you waited until this time next year and brought out something better a little later? There would be less threads with users reporting problems, instability etc. Prospective users might find that more appealing.

You probably won't respond to this post...but I would be interested to hear a perspective on this from someone at the company.

ORIGINAL: vuterly

ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

>>Now that this release is probably what most (as well as you guys at Cake) would be happy with, will you still have a
>>strict deadline to put out a Sonar 9 or whatever by October?

That's been Cakewalk's business model forever - We do need to make money :-)

Had you considered there might be another way to secure or even increase profits? Such as guaranteeing the stability, fluidity and user friendliness of a major release, alongside the simple act of putting it out there and listing a bunch of new features?

What if you waited until this time next year and brought out something better a little later? There would be less threads with users reporting problems, instability etc. Prospective users might find that more appealing.

You probably won't respond to this post...but I would be interested to hear a perspective on this from someone at the company.

Nice thought, but not really feasible. After all, Cake can't possibly know every way someone works with Sonar and they can't possibly test with every possible daw system configuration, can they? Sometimes you just have to tap into the user base for knowledge. When I had a legitimate day job as an electronics design engineer I used to write test procedures for the stuff I designed. I found it useful to have someone else run through the procedure to see if everything worked as it should. Occasionally there'd be problems found not just with the procedure itself but the hardware that I would automatically work around without thinking. So, in this sense it makes sense (ouch!) for Cake to do what it does.

Once again, thank you Seth and the other Cake personnel who post here. Shows you care, unlike those at TC Electronics with regards the Powercore dsp boxes. You wouldn't believe the problems raised on the Powercore forum and no action from the makers. To show you how bad they are at customer care, Vista 32 bit drivers are just at a public beta stage after all this time.

Not quite what I was referring to...

I understand Cakewalk have a monumental task in drawing up relevant test cases etc.

I'm talking about giving Sonar the kind of improvements that result from a little re-thinking and TLC. Make it work more intuitively, make it friendlier, iron out bugs which have nothing to do with hardware/software interaction e.g. not being able to drag clips between instrument tracks - that bug was only fixed in 8.3! I highly doubt it wasn't encountered during testing. No doubt there were some bigger fish to fry. Now, the smaller fish could be taken care of if Cakewalk gave themselves more breathing room.

With every release, the software becomes more complex. Yet the time in between releases stays the same. That's a problem, no?

ORIGINAL: vuterly

Not quite what I was referring to...

I understand Cakewalk have a monumental task in drawing up relevant test cases etc.

I'm talking about giving Sonar the kind of improvements that result from a little re-thinking and TLC. Make it work more intuitively, make it friendlier, iron out bugs which have nothing to do with hardware/software interaction e.g. not being able to drag clips between instrument tracks - that bug was only fixed in 8.3! I highly doubt it wasn't encountered during testing. No doubt there were some bigger fish to fry. Now, the smaller fish could be taken care of if Cakewalk gave themselves more breathing room.

With every release, the software becomes more complex. Yet the time in between releases stays the same. That's a problem, no?

No, and here's why: no one person or team can possibly find each and every bug or problem with a feature. There has yet to be any software written that's been bug-free. A programmer cannot possibly know every way his program is going to be used. If it were up to what you state, waiting for each and every bug to be squashed before release, you'd never have software released! Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and hope for the best and make repairs afterwards. That's what Cake is good at.

ORIGINAL: jackn2mpu

ORIGINAL: vuterly

Not quite what I was referring to...

I understand Cakewalk have a monumental task in drawing up relevant test cases etc.

I'm talking about giving Sonar the kind of improvements that result from a little re-thinking and TLC. Make it work more intuitively, make it friendlier, iron out bugs which have nothing to do with hardware/software interaction e.g. not being able to drag clips between instrument tracks - that bug was only fixed in 8.3! I highly doubt it wasn't encountered during testing. No doubt there were some bigger fish to fry. Now, the smaller fish could be taken care of if Cakewalk gave themselves more breathing room.

With every release, the software becomes more complex. Yet the time in between releases stays the same. That's a problem, no?

No, and here's why: no one person or team can possibly find each and every bug or problem with a feature. There has yet to be any software written that's been bug-free. A programmer cannot possibly know every way his program is going to be used. If it were up to what you state, waiting for each and every bug to be squashed before release, you'd never have software released! Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and hope for the best and make repairs afterwards. That's what Cake is good at.

I never said it should be "bug-free". I'm well aware that's impossible.

No point re-clarifying, because it's all in my post above...

I'm with vuterly on this one. The software is bigger now and the yearly release cycle makes it harder to complete a new program in one year (reality 5-6 months because it's already March). So what if it comes in November now? Because more and more people are waiting longer and longer until the REAL UPDATES come out. Since 8.3 is the best SONAR so far, if a 9 comes out 6 months from now and customers KNOW it hasn't really been thoroughly tested (as has been the case this last release) they will WAIT until the real release which is months down the road. I really don't understand why companies don't see that. You can't mandate a release date....too many things going on. You've got to prove your "release" is solid and worthy of being put into the market. Does that mean bug free? No, so stop clinging to that as rational.

It should come out when it's a new product.

thanks. good, second readme.
planist

I'm sure that whatever the next version is going to be it has already been worked on. Probably long before even 8 was released. I'd imagine they have a target for release time of a feature set. for each release but an ongoing development of SONAR from which each subsequent release is taken. That way they can add to their previous work and build onto rather than start from scratch each time.

Noel made it pretty clear in his comprehensive listing of what went into S8 how they progress between releases and why they use the annual release as their model for doing business.

Yep Noel did make it clear about the annual updates. Finale uses it to. So did Corel until of late.
Its not such a bad thing. If you want the most stable product, don't update right away. If like me for the last several releases I did upgrade right away. I knew there might be issues and for sure bugs, but I've been trying to support Cakewalk so they keep providing us with this great software that we use. Of course for me, if notation/staff view isn't addressed in Sonar 9, I won't be upgraded at the get go.

my .02cents worth.

Ed

I just tried multiple configurations with External Inserts and they all worked Great.

Compressor on Bus
Compressor on Mono track
Both at once
Compressors on 4 mono tracks + 1 on a bus and 1 one the master.
Plugins before and after

Sounds Great.

Please let me add my deepest thanks to you Noel and the rest of the crew at Cakewalk ! I have been a long standing customer and every time you show that you care about us, it just proves again that I made the right decision !! Thank you again.

ORIGINAL: InstrEd

Its not such a bad thing. If you want the most stable product, don't update right away.

And for new users...?

Should there be a notice on the Cakewalk website instructing people to become licence holders only in the Spring?

ORIGINAL: InstrEd

I knew there might be issues and for sure bugs, but I've been trying to support Cakewalk so they keep providing us with this great software that we use. Of course for me, if notation/staff view isn't addressed in Sonar 9, I won't be upgraded at the get go.

I've been constructive too - reporting bugs, putting forward suggestions and trying my best to justify why they make sense, etc. I'd love Sonar 9 to get it together more, but at the moment I have to be sceptical on the likelihood of that happening, given the stringent release cycle.

It's also interesting how you use the phrase "trying to support cakewalk". Maybe not just in that one isolated example, but I do get the impression a lot of the users on this forum are a bit "institutionalised" into the Sonar way of life, i.e. they have something invested and err on the positive side. It's the job of the developers to be professional and on top of things - there shouldn't necessarily need to be a hard-core of users who prop up the product somewhat. Even with that in place, we have apparently only been introduced to the "definitive" or "most stable" release a full six months after version 8 arrived. But I still encounter bugs quite often, usually daily.

Out of curiosity, what improvements do you want to see in staff view?

Hey, I'm not saying there are not bugs. But for me, I haven't had a show stopper. I know some times its a pain using the work a-rounds.
Its just I have tried Cubase and couldn't get use to it.

As far as notation/staff view. Triplets would be one of the fixes I would like. Plus it would be cool to have the PRV view and Staff view connected with lines showing where they are for easier editing. I have Finale, so I don't want/need Sonar to become a full fledged notation program. I need better integration with Finale.
Music XML 2.0 + support would be a great start. I just feel that notation and for that matter CAL has been put on the side-burner for too long. Man just think if Cakewalk had a great macro editor, what the forum members could write and put on-line to share with others. Comes to mind AJ's control surface plug in for Behringer BCR2000. I for one would take a crack at learning the macro commands. How about VBA for Cakewalk Sonar. Dust off my limited VB skills.

And for the record, I do wish they could stop the yearly update cycle, but I understand that Cakewalk is actually a small company and need revenue to survive.
I just decided the last few years to support them. I know others disagree in that and that is fine. I have a small business with my brother and times have been tough for the last two+ years.

ED

I've been avoiding the upgrade from 7PE to 8. Didn't think it was worth it -- Until now. Thanks for the details, Noel -- It's time for me to contribute a little to the economic stimulus...

Read the disclaimer in red on the 8.3 download page before you get too happy. :-)

crap 8.03 kicks are off cant record on this ..

I have waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and waited,

to tell you all that SONAR 8.3 runs so beutifully well on my DAW, and all my UAD cards and everything and now I can focus totally on making music and I am soooooo satisfied with Cakewalk.

Well, that was about all I had to say.

Enjoy life, everybody.
:)

I've been constructive too - reporting bugs, putting forward suggestions and trying my best to justify why they make sense, etc. I'd love Sonar 9 to get it together more, but at the moment I have to be sceptical on the likelihood of that happening, given the stringent release cycle.

I think the main problem stems from the fact that this is a difficult and decidedly niche market. Even though Sonar probably has some thousands of users and costs a pretty penny, it doesn't generate enough revenue to fund enough developers working full time on the next release AND the current stable and porting fixes to the last code branch. I don't know how large their installed user base is, but I'm fairly sure it isn't in the millions, so . Add to that the problem that with each structural change required by the evolution of the software( gapless, surround, multicore, etc ), the ability to backport certain features and changes is all but impossible. They cannot fix the external inserts in 7.x, for example, because they had to rewrite large portion of the code to fix it in 8.x, and the codebase is probably substantially different. They could push 9.x out another 6 months, maybe, but if the rate of adoption of new customers isn't large enough, they at least have to release something for which they can charge an upgrade fee just to pay the devel team and testers.
It's perfectly reasonable to expect stability and attention to detail in your software - doubly so when you use it to make a living or produce a product. Consider how many people own Sonar, and then think about how many people own an iphone or windows, or even protools. Cakewalk is being honorable in that if they released every 18 months instead of 12, they'd probably have less staff to develop and test, or they'd generate enough less revenue that they would be in danger of Roland shutting down their division due to lack of profit. Things are always a compromise in business, and this is no different.
There is stiff competition in this market, too. While Cakewalk hold their own, you have many entrants in the market. Some, like Reaper, are developing at a frenzied rate, and while they don't measure up for many users in raw features, they can errode some of Sonar's market share on the more casual end of the user base. New VSTs are springing up, new DAWs, new control surfaces, new VST/DX specifications, new OSs, new hardware with different capabilities year after year. If they wait too long to release, they become yesterday's news, and new customers get entrenched in someone else's software. It's not easy to switch DAWs once you've gotten accustomed to one, so when they lose a prospective customer, that may be a permanent loss or at least a loss through many release cycles. Imagine the pressure that creates to release something viable and competitive and modern - frequently.
There are so many factors driving the development, testing, patching, and release decisions that make each decision a complex balancing act. Sonar serves lots of different audiences because it is so capable. There are electronic musicians, audio professionals, live performers, composers who use the notation, midi, or audio-for-video features. They service a wide range of platforms from the cpu to the OS, the audio interface and driver models, to the control surfaces and midi devices. They are constantly getting feedback and requests for new features and changes in functionality that are often at odds with one another. They all too often try to make the most people happy only to find others very upset with them for whatever decision they made.
While I know everyone has the same basic motivation at heart - they want to see Sonar be the best it can be - I personally believe from my experience in software development that the reality of the 12 month release cycle isn't driven by CW's greed or by some sort of apathy toward their customers' wants and needs. It is driven by the necessity to turn enough profit to survive as a company in a relatively small market with many competitors. Their goal beyond that is to generate enough revenue to actually grow a bit, so they can buy some more testing configs and hire a few more developers and testers and expand with more partnerships that bring to bear more technologies that they can bundle like they've done with content, dithering algorithms, v-vocal, etc.
All of this was somewhat stream-of-consciousness, so I hope it made sense and made a point that CW is, in my humble opinion, trying to make the best product they can within the constraints of their resources. I've never sensed anything less than slavish devotion and good intentions from their staff, judging by years of posts, here.

ORIGINAL: groove
(everything stated...)

...all worth considering points... indeed...

ORIGINAL: groove

(uber-paragraph)

You raise some very good points. I can see it would be a risk to change their release cycle, I just don't agree it's as cut-and-dry as "yearly release = yearly money, 18-monthly release = 18-monthly money". If Sonar gets better as a result of an 18 month period between major versions, arguably Cakewalk stand to make more money in the long run: happier users, better reputation, more breathing room to address subtler parts of the program. It all adds up.

But I suppose, logically speaking, you could argue that those users you described who are liable to move to a different app in the absence of a major update would have an offsetting effect on the above. Thus any gains brought about by the extended release cycle would be cancelled out.

Obviously it's up to Cakewalk, and I somehow doubt they even have time to consider this, judging by the ageing state of their website, support channel and bug reporting system. When push comes to shove, I can only vote with my feet. It just depends on how other users feel.

One point that I don't think has been raised (although groove hinted at it) is that the technology is moving quickly and users are impatient (as we all know, I'm sure :-)): if Cakewalk - or any similar company that is relying on this kind of income for continued existence - waits too long to release a version with new functionality, then users will jump ship or the technology will have changed so much that they'll then have to delay the release even further to catch up with that technology or look out of date. And so on and so on...

Cakewalk have obviously decided that a 12 month release cycle copes with this (and other points) enough.

I think you're right...
...I also think it should be noticed that, on the other hand, the same quickly moving technology is causing a certain deal of other users to feel pretty tired of always rushing to be after the new stuff... I mean we almost never take full advantage of the "tools" we have invested (a lot of money) in... as we soon have to start "looking forward" again...
...after a few cycles of these... things can get bothering, if not even annoying...

Hi, I just joined the forum. I started using Cakewalk (and stopped tinkering with MIDI on the whole) way back before it was called Sonar. My last version was Cakewalk Pro 10, around 1999. I just downloaded Sonar 8 pro trial.

This is off topic, but Silence Dogwood's profile pic looks very much like one I had the opportunity to visit just a few days ago. Is that located near the beach by any chance. If so, if was great being there.

Lar

Welcome to the Forum!





I've got a Cake ProAudio7 disc stashed away, somewhere. You will love Sonar 8!

I don't think the length of release cycle matters much. I have software that is on an 18+ month cycle and they are no more bug free than any other software or Sonar. Longer cycles mean more expectation for features, so you still spend the same relative amount of time working on features, then debugging. The problem IMO is simply there is no way with a small beta team you're going to catch all or even most of the bugs, which is why I think some developers have gone to public beta's as they get close to release. You still won't catch all the bugs, but you'll probably catch all the show stoppers/major bugs, at least the chances are better. :)

Dan

Everyone,

I'm in the middle of a production using Sonar 8.3 and I'm quite troubled : the "Move To" problem that is described on the support/download page is bigger than they think - whenever I move a clip (copy, move, clone track) it is mistakenly repositioned with a margin of more than "a few clicks" - especially in high tempo project (above 160/170 BPM Drum'n Bass or Punk for instance) it's a damn nightmare !!!!
Please fix this ASAP and not "in the near future"...

Much appreciated,

Michael.

Hi,

I've got the "Move To" Problem too. And i'm on a big project in a couple of days... I think i will downgrade to 8.02 to work fine. But there's some bugsFIXs in 8.3 that i really appreciate, and new functions like the PDC' optimisation. As michaelschack, it's for me a nightmare and "please fix this ASAP and not in the near future ! "

Thanks,

Nicolas

I'm so glad I switched from Logic way back when...Thanks.

ORIGINAL: InstrEd

Wow Noel,

Just printed it so I can read it off line.

Just with the little I have play with 8.3, Cakewalk and company did a fantastic job.
Great work. Now how about working on the Staff/Notation improvements for Sonar 9 (hint, hint)

Ed

BTW Noel, I'm also waiting for you to start the "Sonar announces completely revised, enhanced and feature packed revision of Staff Notation" Thread

Another Ed

I really loved reading this thread ... and I really love working with Sonar 8.3 PE -- incredible things are happening in my life since I upgraded!

Noel can you look into something for me. I use sonar both live and in the studio. I can no longer open multiple files at the same time through windows explorer . I just went through the updates one at a time. 801, & 802 caused no problems still can open multiple files at once in windows explorer, when I put patch 830 this is the patch that causes the problem. I can no longer open multiple files… I typically in live situation highlight several file in windows explorer and open them all at the same time. I can no longer do this. I Hope this helps to isolate the problem and get it fixed…

Thanks, Robert

Hi-

I'm not Noel, but do you have "Allow Only One Open Project at a Time" checked by any chance (Options > Global > General)?

Just a thought...

-Susan

Perhaps in this update the default behaviour is to allow only one project open at a time. Check Options | Global - General tab. about half way down you'll see the "Allow only one open project at a time" check box.

But having just tried it myself I see that it wont work. I can open multiple projects from within SONAR but only one at a time.

This is a great update. I think the PDC overide is a Godsend when using soft synths . I also disable my network card (by shortcut) after using DPC latency check software(3rd party). It would be good if Cakewalk could do a computer analysis scan(future update maybe) to find problems such as found by the dpc tool to find any audio problems.

Thanks for good update.

ORIGINAL: mudgel

Perhaps in this update the default behaviour is to allow only one project open at a time. Check Options | Global - General tab. about half way down you'll see the "Allow only one open project at a time" check box.

But having just tried it myself I see that it wont work. I can open multiple projects from within SONAR but only one at a time.

I can open multiple projects from Windows Explorer no problem. This is with the 8.3.1. patch.
What was weird was when I first tried this and went to expand a couple of MIDI tracks in Track View and in the left hand part of the view where all the controls are there was a black blank space at the bottom of each of the tracks under the controls. Minimized and maximized the tracks and the black space was still there. Tried playing a few of the MIDI tracks and the sound was nasty. Then I remembered I had run the latency on my sound card all the way to the low end so I could do some real time playing. I shut down Sonar, went to my sound card's control panel, upped the latency to the max, closed the card's properties, re-opened Sonar, and all was well. Sound was fine, and the black area at the bottom of the tracks was now gone. Also, somewheres in this whole mess my track meters got changed to horizontal when I nener use that option; always vertical meters.

I have Sonar set so I can open multiple projects at one time. I didn't have to change this when I did the update as my personalized settings were picked up on first reboot and open after the update. I get in the habit of rebooting the computer after ANY update - cleans out any leftover crumbs from an installer.

To the Fantastic Space Cowboys and Cowgirls at Cakewalk Development,

When you treat us to techspertise and don't talk down to us, it sure does feel good!
I have to admit the improvements that were advertised in the <then> upcoming 8.3 "patch" sounded pretty much like a major release to me.

And you didn't disappoint....

These are all usable components that will do nothing but improve what any of us are doing with SONAR.

Kudos, ladies and gentlemen....

See you in October.....

Now if I could only get 8.3 to work, instead of freezing Sonar when I try to play a project...

I always have sonar set to allow multiple projects open but the funny thing with 8.3.1 is that if I shift click select multiple projects (in Windows Explorer) Sonar opens with only one of the selected projects loaded. (the last one on the list). If I leave SONAR open and just close that project nothing happens but if I close SONAR down, it immediately opens with the next project in the selected list, and so on until all the selected files have been opened one at a time.

Now I can have a multitude of projects open at one time as long as I select them individually. Either through SONAR's Open File Dialog or Windows Explorer doesn't make a difference.

A question about this:

MPEX not disabled in x64

I'm now on Sonar 8.3.1.372 Producer Edition on Vista x64, and there's still no MPEX option when doing process -> length operation. I checked that it does indeed work nicely on Vista 32-bit. Anything I need to do to enable it?

which is why I think some developers have gone to public beta's as they get close to release

"public beta" seems rather to be code for "if we'd released this, you users would legitimately expect the software to be fit for purpose: so we'll never release it, then you won't be able to complain if it doesn't perform". At least Cakewalk is more honest than that.

Thanks, Noel. Enjoyed it.

Hello,

I'm Albert Syeles. I started using Sonar in 1972 in the US Navy. True, but a different Sonar.

But seriously, I've been a Cakewalk user since Music Creator 1.0, Sonar since 2.0 and Sonar PE since 3.0. I just upgraded to PE 8 and I'm very happy that it has many of the feature improvements I've been wishing for for many years, particularly MIDI workflow in Piano Roll View. I use Sonar of course for terrific audio sequencing and production, but especially for MIDI recording, composing, arranging, etc.

However, Sonar still underwhelms in one critical area: notation. Not much change, if any, since Music Creator 1. Yes I know, it's not intended to be Finale or Sibelius. Fine. But they could spend just a little effort to refine what Sonar does in Staff View. For instance note resolution is still restricted to 32d for printing. How hard is it to increase it to 64th or finer? Grace notes, arpeggios, etc, just don't print out at all the way it works now. And how about providing a tool for expression markers and more flexible placement for expression text. Not asking much I think. I'm not even asking for hairpins and the like that actually work on a MIDI level. Just printing enhancements.

Just those few changes would save me the expense and MAJOR hassle to port my MIDI to Finale just to print a presentable score. And also end my constant thoughts of just switching to Finale as it keeps getting better at audio production.

Albert

Impressive log (and good advertisement)! Makes me wish I was a regular Sonar user in times.

I spent too many months trying to make S8 run without crashing and Unable to open audio playback device error messages. Im back to Sonar 703. This is the best thing I have done since the release of S8. BitBridge is not exactly stable but its fine. Today is the first day since I upgraded to S8 that it was possible to work 14 hours without crashes with S7. So I flushed my S8 DVD's in the toilet. Sorry, for me it wasnt worth the money. I've lost a fortune trying to make Sonar work instead of making music and Tech. Sup. hasnt got the slightest idea what is wrong. Actually I dont think they believe me. Now I will try to come back in business... I have been using Cakewalk since Cakewalk 1.0 for DOS from the eighties. They all had their issues. And Im not going for Sonar9.

ORIGINAL: RigPa

I spent too many months trying to make S8 run without crashing and Unable to open audio playback device error messages. Im back to Sonar 703. This is the best thing I have done since the release of S8. BitBridge is not exactly stable but its fine. Today is the first day since I upgraded to S8 that it was possible to work 14 hours without crashes with S7. So I flushed my S8 DVD's in the toilet. Sorry, for me it wasnt worth the money. I've lost a fortune trying to make Sonar work instead of making music and Tech. Sup. hasnt got the slightest idea what is wrong. Actually I dont think they believe me. Now I will try to come back in business... I have been using Cakewalk since Cakewalk 1.0 for DOS from the eighties. They all had their issues. And Im not going for Sonar9.

I enjoy S8 much more the S7, but I understand that you use what works. I know you have checked your drivers for your motu. The problem surely sits inside of there somewhere. Or not :)

I've had a couple of crashes here and there even in 32bit mode when loading plugins. Last night, I was loading cake's own fxchorus and bam. Reboot. I am hopeful they put some effort in getting those excellent fx's ported from dx and over to vst64. Their plugins don't get a lot of talk around here, but they are actually very good if you take some time to tweak - and have very little overhead. I think their fxreverb sounds much better than a lot of plugs in their class.

All in all - I am making some nice recordings with S8 and would not like it if I had to go back a version.

ORIGINAL: RigPa

...So I flushed my S8 DVD's in the toilet. Sorry, for me it wasnt worth the money...

Ok, we know You don't really mean it... it must be just a way of saying you won't use it any longer...

anyway, given the money invested, plus the fact that you MUST have heared and read (QUITE A LOT...) around that SONAR 8 is simply the best SONAR ever, and, possibly, according to QUITE A LOT of people involved in the industry, the BEST DAW at the moment...
...I think you had better keep your purchased software, instead, as you might take a chance to use it on a different (better working...) system...

regards

.