Helpful ReplyThe Unofficial list of Sonar issues

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Cactus Music
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2018/02/25 20:05:24 (permalink)

The Unofficial list of Sonar issues

Please post your observed issues you have with using Sonar..
Not feature requests but Issues and Bugs. Things that cause you problems while trying to work with the Software. 
 
I think the new owners are listening right now and we are the ones who can make a difference to the future of the "new DAW' 

Johnny V  
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#1
Cactus Music
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 20:13:09 (permalink)
1- Crashing after so many midi edits unless you keep saving
2- Setting that do not stay put and have to always be reset every time you start a new project. Example - Opening a midi file to make a new project. The  Lens is ignored and you have to re arrange your pages,
3-The export setting do not stay as you set them. Everytime you export you have to make changes. ( see# 7 )  
4-Bugs in the track templates that will randomly insert a new Master buss. I'm never sure what will be part of a saved template. 
5-Automation can make a huge mess of things and needs a complete overhaul 
6- COPY/ PASTE of even the simplest midi track results in random weirdness that cannot be explained.  
7- User preferences should be set in stone and we should not have to keep resetting settings like Comping. I don't use comping yet it keeps being reset to this and I keep having to change it back to Overdub. There are many more settings that we should be able to set in preferences once and forget. There are many setting that should be but are not included in preferences, like the Export settings.  
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2018/02/25 20:48:48

Johnny V  
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#2
azslow3
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 20:20:14 (permalink)
If new owners have access to CW bugtracker, I guess they know the complete list already...

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#3
sharke
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 20:31:19 (permalink)
Plugins having their controls reset both when the project loads and during working on the project. Huge issue for me which was the #1 reason why I jumped ship. This was a very long standing issue with Sonar in many guises, but most recently affected Waves and Fabfilter EQ's for me. Made the program completely useless. 
 
Also horrible instability in large projects which caused the program to hang and sometimes crash when I did something as innocuous as click the playhead to another part of the project and hit play. 

James
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#4
richardskeltmusic
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 20:36:28 (permalink)
Having taken advantage of the Studio One offer over christmas so I can take a valid reality check - what really has come into focus is how often I accepted Sonar crashes, and the biggest of all was the weird mis-alignment problems I had when loop recording.  I still am puzzled that I seemed to be the only win 8/steinberg UR44/SPLAT owner who had those problems but there you go..... S1.3 doesn't give me that grief.
#5
mixmkr
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 20:42:36 (permalink)
Crashing

some tunes: --->        www.masonharwoodproject.bandcamp.com 
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#6
marled
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 20:49:56 (permalink)
- Track mis-alignment when changing the range during playback
- Crashes using Melodyne when not saving in short periods
- Copy/paste to track lanes goes to wrong lane (not the selected one)

... many years before ...
#7
Piotr
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 21:28:07 (permalink)
- disk overrun error appears in situation related to application memory management not really disk related for instance in such weird cases like even after finishing playing project (not recording!). It happens with very simple project like 3-4 tracks, 2x VSTi (like drums+bas). Just recording next versions of audio (even not in lanes, just delete old and start new one)
- adding more and more plugins during play often leads to hanging of Sona
- often in history there was showed not proper name of actual operation to be undo/redo
 

Regards,
Piotr
Sonar Platinum Lifetime
#8
chuckebaby
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 21:37:49 (permalink)
mixmkr
 
Crashing


 
Well that narrows it down.

marled
 
-Track mis-alignment when changing the range during playback




+1
 
Changing the range during playback when using a Region FX causes a whole unsynchronized/mis-aligned mess here (Using 10.2017).
Data appears to float off up to 1 beat (MBT=Measures/Beats/Ticks ) at times.
 

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#9
dappa1
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 21:42:00 (permalink)
I sure there was mention of new code. New flagship so this post is really irrelevant.

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#10
bitman
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 21:44:26 (permalink)
ProChannel ACT Mapping in the Console View doesn't work since X3 which was the last version where it worked.
#11
Cactus Music
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 22:02:34 (permalink)
No
dappa1
I sure there was mention of new code. New flagship so this post is really irrelevant.




 
If you read the stickies the new owners are asking for input from forum members. It doesn't hurt to ask and now is the time to make the changes. If they do base the "new DAW" on the old Sonar coding it would be a shame to carry over any bugs and quirks. 
 

Johnny V  
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#12
Funkfingers
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 22:21:30 (permalink)
What "they" really have to do is to fix the timing issues.
Audio files are not recorded on the beat as it should.
The ASIO drivers reported latencies are off.
I know many users, including myself, reported problems with audio beeing recorded off beat due to latencie errors.
That and the quantisation. Quantise is a huge downer for me.
When I record midi in Cubase I never have problems with quantising.
But in Sonar I have issues with the quantise function.
It seldom quantise the notes in a musical way. Cubase does and Sonar dont.
Thats the two most imortant "bugs", issues "they" have to fix. In my book.
Other than that. Nothing but praise to Sonar.
Except the missing tuner and tap-tempo up front.
 
 

My name is Hans but I'm still Funkfingers after all these years.
#13
sharke
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 22:26:25 (permalink)
Cactus Music
1- Crashing after so many midi edits unless you keep saving
2- Setting that do not stay put and have to always be reset every time you start a new project. Example - Opening a midi file to make a new project. The  Lens is ignored and you have to re arrange your pages,
3-The export setting do not stay as you set them. Everytime you export you have to make changes. ( see# 7 )  
4-Bugs in the track templates that will randomly insert a new Master buss. I'm never sure what will be part of a saved template. 
5-Automation can make a huge mess of things and needs a complete overhaul 
6- COPY/ PASTE of even the simplest midi track results in random weirdness that cannot be explained.  
7- User preferences should be set in stone and we should not have to keep resetting settings like Comping. I don't use comping yet it keeps being reset to this and I keep having to change it back to Overdub. There are many more settings that we should be able to set in preferences once and forget. There are many setting that should be but are not included in preferences, like the Export settings.  
 


I have had my pan law setting randomly changed in projects many times and it was a huge PITA as I wondered what was different about my mixes. I've also had my snap magnetic setting changed on many occasions and that's also hugely frustrating. Like plugin settings, Sonar should ALWAYS preserve settings that the user has specified. The same applies to any software program really - if it's messing with your work and your preferences without you touching it then it's a turkey.

James
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#14
sharke
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 22:29:16 (permalink)
richardskeltmusic
Having taken advantage of the Studio One offer over christmas so I can take a valid reality check - what really has come into focus is how often I accepted Sonar crashes, and the biggest of all was the weird mis-alignment problems I had when loop recording.  I still am puzzled that I seemed to be the only win 8/steinberg UR44/SPLAT owner who had those problems but there you go..... S1.3 doesn't give me that grief.


I logged bugs to do with looping misalignment that were never addressed and I suspected it had something to do with some core engine functionality that would have taken a big rewrite to fix. The looping issues have nothing to do with your interface and didn't just affect recording. Automation becomes misaligned when looping as well.

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#15
Kev999
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 23:43:33 (permalink)
PRV filter settings are not saved with the project.
In most of my projects, I have several instances of PRV docked in the undocked multidock, each with a different filter applied. When I open a project, the different PRV instances all look identical and display the same instrument, i.e. the one that was displayed last before the project was closed. I also have one particular screenset dedicated to midi drums. When I open it, the PRV doesn't show the drum map until I set it up again.
 
This issue is a showstopper for me. It's the main reason that I ended up reverting to an earlier release. I've been sticking with 22.11.0.111, which has fewer problems.

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#16
dappa1
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/25 23:54:21 (permalink)
With all these bugs I can see why Sonar went the way it did.

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#17
chuckebaby
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 00:51:40 (permalink)
dappa1
With all these bugs I can see why Sonar went the way it did.

 
 
I have to be completely honest, im not sure why you haven't been banned again (along with your IP).
You seem help no one and only troll users on this forum.
 
 
 

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#18
blazingedgepro
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 01:24:50 (permalink)
Biggest one for me is the MIDI arpeggiator causes playback to hang for about 10-15 seconds before starting to play. Not all the time, but often, especially in large projects. Whenever I use the Sonar arpeggiator (the one in the Inspector, not the MFX plugin) I pretty much bounce MIDI clips and then turn the arp OFF so that it gets Sonar working properly again.
#19
bvideo
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 04:48:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2018/02/26 08:27:02
Not sure they had a working bug tracker any more. There is certainly the problem reports forum for anyone to see.

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#20
Anonymungus!
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 04:52:57 (permalink)
Well, I mean....since you asked,
 
WHY?  Why, when I delete a softsynth, in the dialog box the "delete associated tracks" is unchecked, the program then creates a new audio track and a new MIDI track (which I always have to delete)?    ☹

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#21
Shambler
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 08:01:50 (permalink)
I've not noticed this before in console view because I don't usually use instrument tracks...
 
Hiding/Showing midi tracks also hides/shows instrument tracks, there's no way to hide midi tracks and show instrument tracks (apart from hiding each individual midi track).

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#22
pwalpwal
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 08:27:23 (permalink)
bvideo
Not sure they had a working bug tracker any more. There is certainly the problem reports forum for anyone to see.


surely the best place for these http://forum.cakewalk.com/Problem-Reports-f77.aspx
 

just a sec

#23
Mwah
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 12:20:16 (permalink)
sharke
Plugins having their controls reset both when the project loads and during working on the project.

 
This. For me, the most annoying and steadfast offender has been UAD Ocean Way Studios.

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#24
Cactus Music
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/26 21:44:06 (permalink)
Thanks everyone so far. For those who don't understand my creation of this thread, as I said it seems for now we have the attention of the developers and a quick overview of issues that drive some of us nuts I think is timely. 
Some are not bugs but user error I see already.  Please only stick to the topic of listing issues about Sonar that drive you to drink.  Even if it is user error, it's educational to see where people have difficulty using the software. I personally think that those issues are just as hindering as bugs. 

Johnny V  
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#25
Magic Russ
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/27 02:51:25 (permalink)
Originally when I opened Sonar the audio engine would be running.  I could open a new project, start playing a synth, and I could hear it.
 
At some point, when I would start a new project or load an existing one, the engine would not be running.  I would load up a synth and hear nothing until I hit the play button.  I found that really irritating since every other host seemed to start up with the engine running.  This behavior only seemed to happen after four months into the membership program.

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#26
losguy
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/27 03:37:33 (permalink)
sharke
I logged bugs to do with looping misalignment that were never addressed and I suspected it had something to do with some core engine functionality that would have taken a big rewrite to fix. The looping issues have nothing to do with your interface and didn't just affect recording. Automation becomes misaligned when looping as well.

I had the same suspicion - just a feeling from seeing this sort of general behavior coming from large-scale software development projects. The term that best describes it for me is "fragile". Fragility can creep in with even the best-intended development teams. The day comes when no one team member has a full handle on the entire system architecture. It's a precarious place to be, especially if the sense of object inter-dependencies gets lost. At that point, the probability that bug fixes or (gasp) new feature additions can create new bugs in unexpected places goes up exponentially. It's also about the time that fixing those new bugs would lead to a cascaded chain of patches and band-aids that would only yield the appearance of working but really only add to the list of problems. This is the sure sign that a major cleanup task is in order. The desired goal for this exercise is to replace "fragile" with "solid".
 
Now, SONAR may only be in a mild state of this, or even be experiencing this in a few important places. But that feeling is definitely there. All that said, I have stuck with SONAR because I love the tool chain and the workflow. A reincarnation of this wonderful program that is also "solid" would really be a dream come true for me.

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#27
sharke
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/27 04:51:42 (permalink)
losguy
sharke
I logged bugs to do with looping misalignment that were never addressed and I suspected it had something to do with some core engine functionality that would have taken a big rewrite to fix. The looping issues have nothing to do with your interface and didn't just affect recording. Automation becomes misaligned when looping as well.

I had the same suspicion - just a feeling from seeing this sort of general behavior coming from large-scale software development projects. The term that best describes it for me is "fragile". Fragility can creep in with even the best-intended development teams. The day comes when no one team member has a full handle on the entire system architecture. It's a precarious place to be, especially if the sense of object inter-dependencies gets lost. At that point, the probability that bug fixes or (gasp) new feature additions can create new bugs in unexpected places goes up exponentially. It's also about the time that fixing those new bugs would lead to a cascaded chain of patches and band-aids that would only yield the appearance of working but really only add to the list of problems. This is the sure sign that a major cleanup task is in order. The desired goal for this exercise is to replace "fragile" with "solid".
 
Now, SONAR may only be in a mild state of this, or even be experiencing this in a few important places. But that feeling is definitely there. All that said, I have stuck with SONAR because I love the tool chain and the workflow. A reincarnation of this wonderful program that is also "solid" would really be a dream come true for me.




I think you're probably right about that. There has been more than one occasion when I've requested a simple design improvement or reported a seemingly trivial bug only to be told that it couldn't be done or that fixing it would break another part of the program. One example was when I reported that automating a ProChannel's FX Chain on/off button would not work unless the ProChannel in question was open in the console (same thing with the arpeggiator on/off button). I was told they were aware of it but had no intention of fixing it because doing so would break other things. Another example is the fact that hitting the "show automation lanes" button when no envelopes already exist automatically creates a volume envelope which takes control of the volume fader whether you want one or not,. When I suggested that hitting this button should result in an empty automation lane in this scenario, I was told that it was not possible for an automation lane to have nothing in it. These things suggest to me that the Bakers were restricted in some ways by legacy code dependencies and/or internal architecture which wasn't future proof and would require extensive rewrites to correct. If being able to automation the FX Chain on/off button would require a huge rewrite of a part of the program, it wouldn't be considered cost effective. Especially given that only a minority of users would ever want to actually do that. 
 
I'm sure much of this legacy code goes back a couple of decades, and that a lot of it is rock solid. But there must be aspects of it which weren't designed with 2018 software design in mind and replacing it would be a huge task, much like upgrading the NYC subway's ancient signal system (some of which is pre-war!). Things would have to be taken apart and put back together again, and who knows what kind of problems would ensue.

James
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#28
BenMMusTech
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/27 05:05:51 (permalink)
Wow some of these are really odd. I've experienced a cople, but the resetting of plugins (touchwood) seems to have been fixed. And it was fixed, when I got a new beefy computer. Perhaps there's a link? It would be an odd one, for sure. Memory perhaps memory leaks and plugins resetting?

The issue with Sonar not remember export settings or getting stuck...that one I have, but it's not a deal breaker, because this is one of those 1st world problems lol.

I don't use a lot of those other features like lens, as someone has mentioned this as a problem. But for me Sonar has been rock solid for months. And I've been pushing the system since I got a new computer last October. I can get 60 odd tracks, 10-15 busses and aux tracks with a slew of Wave's plugs...48khz and 64bitfp and 64bitfp audio files. Best decision ever, because my old computer just couldn't cut the mustard. I still think that a lot of the problems listed here are hardware related. I could be wrong.

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#29
shawn@trustmedia.tv
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Re: The Unofficial list of Sonar issues 2018/02/27 05:11:15 (permalink)
I've noticed SONAR is very addicting...can we fix that? -s

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#30
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