The most annoying problem I run into is that if you export a mono file that's close to the maximum headroom as a mono file, you'll think you're saving it but the saved version will be clipped destructively. The only way to solve this is to save the mono file as stereo. The same thing happens if you drag a mono file whose console channel is set to stereo interleave into the browser. When you drag it back from the browser, it will be clipped.
 

I can find no way to sidechain anything without a crash. I insert the plug, switch on sidechaining, set up the send from wherever, ctrl S (because clicking on save crashes the program), press spacebar (or anything whatsoever), wait for the crash, reopen Sonar, reopen the project, and all is good again, until the next sidechain insert. Matters not the size or complexity of the project, the plug being used. It can be a single audio track with nothing on it. Always the same. Not sure which version this started from so I havn't bothered to backtrack. I just accept it now as part of the workflow. It's pretty much my only issue accept for continual crashes when dragging in audio clips compiling songs ideas from sample library's. That's a drag, save, drag, save, drag, save, or pay the price...........
 
PITA
 
BIBTPTACB,BTWW
(but I've been to PT and come back, because that was worse). So I'm still happy

igiwigi
Biggy for me
Midi Edit crashing

 
As I said yes that's my biggy too, Solution is Save, save save. or use Home Studio for all editing and return to Splat for audio etc. Did you get your free version of HS? 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Free-copy-of-Home-Studio-m3718860.aspx
 
 

losguy

sharke
There has been more than one occasion when I've requested a simple design improvement or reported a seemingly trivial bug only to be told that it couldn't be done or that fixing it would break another part of the program.

 
Yes that is a fairly strong sign of fragile code.
 

sharke
One example was when I reported that automating a ProChannel's FX Chain on/off button would not work unless the ProChannel in question was open in the console (same thing with the arpeggiator on/off button). I was told they were aware of it but had no intention of fixing it because doing so would break other things. Another example is the fact that hitting the "show automation lanes" button when no envelopes already exist automatically creates a volume envelope which takes control of the volume fader whether you want one or not,. When I suggested that hitting this button should result in an empty automation lane in this scenario, I was told that it was not possible for an automation lane to have nothing in it. These things suggest to me that the Bakers were restricted in some ways by legacy code dependencies and/or internal architecture which wasn't future proof and would require extensive rewrites to correct. If being able to automation the FX Chain on/off button would require a huge rewrite of a part of the program, it wouldn't be considered cost effective. Especially given that only a minority of users would ever want to actually do that. 

 
Wow, interesting issue cases there. It appears that they were already hitting the wall of decision on whether to patch-up or re-architect.
 

sharke
I'm sure much of this legacy code goes back a couple of decades, and that a lot of it is rock solid. But there must be aspects of it which weren't designed with 2018 software design in mind and replacing it would be a huge task, much like upgrading the NYC subway's ancient signal system (some of which is pre-war!). Things would have to be taken apart and put back together again, and who knows what kind of problems would ensue.

Wow yes, ground-up rearchitecting requires down time, which does not translate well to the release treadmill demanded by market pressures. Nevermind something the magnitude of upgrading the NYC signal system! There is a glimmer of hope that this transition to BandLab will offer an opportunity to rethink and retool. That's really why I'm hanging on right now - I have a feeling that Noel will get to finally scratch some itches that have been bothering him for a while now (heh - I almost said "bugging him").

Well all I can say is that I hope they take their time and don't feel pressured by the market or the Cakewalk community or anyone else to resurrect Sonar ASAP. I'd love to see them start something from scratch, helped along the way by the inclusion of Sonar's good parts. 

Adobe Audition got a complete overhaul between versions 3 & 4, but some modules came back as they were. If torn into its piece parts, it would be interesting to see what SONAR would look like if it could be "built to 2018."

Rasure
*Automation sometimes doesn't work.

 
I often find that bus automation stops working. Sometimes it works on some clips while not working on others. Closing the project and re-opening always puts it right again.

With regard aux tracks, could it be possible that you don't have input monitoring enabled on them? You need to have that enabled to hear them. Got me a few times. An example of poor design rather than a bug though - it's really counterintuitive and almost certain to cause confusion among people who, quite reasonably, presume that an aux track should be heard straight out of the box without having to enable anything. 

sharke
Another example is the fact that hitting the "show automation lanes" button when no envelopes already exist automatically creates a volume envelope which takes control of the volume fader whether you want one or not,. When I suggested that hitting this button should result in an empty automation lane in this scenario, I was told that it was not possible for an automation lane to have nothing in it.

If that's the case, surely the easiest thing would be to popup a confirmation dialog at that point - or even better a dialog asking you what sort of envelope you want... with a cancel button.
 
M.

msmcleod

sharke
Another example is the fact that hitting the "show automation lanes" button when no envelopes already exist automatically creates a volume envelope which takes control of the volume fader whether you want one or not,. When I suggested that hitting this button should result in an empty automation lane in this scenario, I was told that it was not possible for an automation lane to have nothing in it.

If that's the case, surely the easiest thing would be to popup a confirmation dialog at that point - or even better a dialog asking you what sort of envelope you want... with a cancel button.
 
M.

 
I am always peeved when someone says something is "not possible" to implement in software. The devil is in the details, though. For example, somebody may have started the lane count with an increment of zero, so that the first lane was "harcoded" and hence tough to resolve as an empty count. (There are stable workarounds for this too, of course.)

ONE used to be able to CTRL+CLICK+DRAG IN/OUT to STRECH an audio clip...no more.
 
ONE sad...
 
as it was shall it be again?
 
YES ONE!

CarriageHouse
Question are your waves plugins cracked or not current version?

I used to have this problem until I went legit with Waves and afterwards plugins losing their settings stopped happening to me.

None of my plugins are cracked and they're always up to date.

sharke
With regard aux tracks, could it be possible that you don't have input monitoring enabled on them? You need to have that enabled to hear them. Got me a few times. An example of poor design rather than a bug though - it's really counterintuitive and almost certain to cause confusion among people who, quite reasonably, presume that an aux track should be heard straight out of the box without having to enable anything. 

Agree, but input monitoring is not my the issue here. I know I have a few projects with issues, will try and make a video at some point to illustrate the problems :-)
 

CarriageHouse
Question are your waves plugins cracked or not current version?

All legal and current here :-)

LLyons
Sharke - I know this doesn't help but for the life of me, and I don't want to trivialize it, I have not stumbled on a waves setting not being saved.  My projects regularly have 20 to 30 waves tools on them, and I am editing roughly 3 hours every day,  so I believe that I SHOULD be seeing this behavior.   It could be many things, I know - but I DO NOT USE MIDI - I wonder if that might hold a clue.  
 

Well Sonar is definitely sending these plugins a message telling them to reset themselves. What form that message takes, I don't know. There could be multiple sources for these erroneous messages. I've seen these resets happen when the project loads as well as in the middle of a session. I've seen it happen when starting or stopping the transport and I've also seen Waves EQ's have bands adjusted (gain and Hz values) through doing something as simple as turning the ProChannel on/off, as demonstrated here:
 

 
The problem is always with EQ's. I've seen it in the Waves Q10, the Waves V-EQ, Fabfilter Pro-Q 2 and also the Quadcurve. Someone else on the beta team said they had seen it happen with the Quadcurve when moving the playhead back and forward across the timeline. 
 
There must be something peculiar to EQ's which differentiate them from other plugins, otherwise I'd be seeing the same thing in other kinds of plugins. I think it must be that EQ parameters in VST's share the same internal ID's or something like that, and Sonar is firing off messages to these ID's somehow. Sonar definitely has a serious problem with MIDI leakage and I've seen all kinds of weird things happen, like hitting mute or solo on an audio track firing off a MIDI message to a synth on a completely unrelated track. Imagine hearing a drum machine trigger a kick drum every time you hit the mute button on a vocal, for instance. I've heard lots of talk of MIDI crosstalk in Sonar, as discussed here. 
 
I think in general, Sonar has the potential to throw around MIDI and CC messages to places they're not supposed to be. But I'm not even sure if this is the full story - as I've mentioned before, Noel once said that an earlier problem with plugins losing their settings was due to a bug in the ARA implementation. It's hard as a layman to understand exactly how all these issues tie together or whether they're all totally separate, but one thing's for sure - they exist, and many people have experienced them. Maybe this is one of those areas in which Sonar really needs a good taking apart and putting back together again.....

That could be it, but at this point I'm in the process of transferring all of my active projects to a DAW that can hold onto plugin settings (regardless of VST2 or VST3), so I guess it doesn't matter one way or the other. Might be something for the new Sonar team to look into though, perhaps there are still some bugs related to VST3 compatibility. 

sharke

LLyons
Sharke - I know this doesn't help but for the life of me, and I don't want to trivialize it, I have not stumbled on a waves setting not being saved.  My projects regularly have 20 to 30 waves tools on them, and I am editing roughly 3 hours every day,  so I believe that I SHOULD be seeing this behavior.   It could be many things, I know - but I DO NOT USE MIDI - I wonder if that might hold a clue.  
 

Well Sonar is definitely sending these plugins a message telling them to reset themselves. What form that message takes, I don't know. There could be multiple sources for these erroneous messages. I've seen these resets happen when the project loads as well as in the middle of a session. I've seen it happen when starting or stopping the transport and I've also seen Waves EQ's have bands adjusted (gain and Hz values) through doing something as simple as turning the ProChannel on/off, as demonstrated here:
 

 
The problem is always with EQ's. I've seen it in the Waves Q10, the Waves V-EQ, Fabfilter Pro-Q 2 and also the Quadcurve. Someone else on the beta team said they had seen it happen with the Quadcurve when moving the playhead back and forward across the timeline. 
 
There must be something peculiar to EQ's which differentiate them from other plugins, otherwise I'd be seeing the same thing in other kinds of plugins. I think it must be that EQ parameters in VST's share the same internal ID's or something like that, and Sonar is firing off messages to these ID's somehow. Sonar definitely has a serious problem with MIDI leakage and I've seen all kinds of weird things happen, like hitting mute or solo on an audio track firing off a MIDI message to a synth on a completely unrelated track. Imagine hearing a drum machine trigger a kick drum every time you hit the mute button on a vocal, for instance. I've heard lots of talk of MIDI crosstalk in Sonar, as discussed here. 
 
I think in general, Sonar has the potential to throw around MIDI and CC messages to places they're not supposed to be. But I'm not even sure if this is the full story - as I've mentioned before, Noel once said that an earlier problem with plugins losing their settings was due to a bug in the ARA implementation. It's hard as a layman to understand exactly how all these issues tie together or whether they're all totally separate, but one thing's for sure - they exist, and many people have experienced them. Maybe this is one of those areas in which Sonar really needs a good taking apart and putting back together again.....

 
I believed you before you posted the image.  I just tested inserting Q10 and LP EQ in the effects bin and in the pro channel.  Played with them hoping I could replicate using what I was seeing, and I could not.  I tried saving and exiting the program, no avail.  Theres something else in the equation that I am missing, but I did try.  
 
Well, I hope you fair better in the days ahead with your new DAW.  I purchased another and am enjoying the learning curve.  They have different pluses and minuses so to speak, and I will keep both. 
 
Take care,
 
LL