creynolds


SNIP... If it was repackaged to be like the SSL Duende X-EQ and X-Comp plugins that do not deny they are software we would have the sort of interface we can all control on a screen with a mouse and see what we are doing to the shape. So stop kidding yourselves you are on a crusade, defending the honour of the fair maiden 'Sonar' of Cakewalk. Its just a bit of kit that is far from perfect and allways will be for many people. So lets stop flinging crap at anyone you dares to say that thing are not perfect. They are not. In a 5hit fight everyone gets a taste.

I didn't see anyone claiming that Sonar was perfect and defending the software.  As it happens, your observations about the UI of these PC modules is something I completely agree with.  I just don't get that you see this as a crusade by some people defending Sonar - they aren't.  They are defending Cakewalk's choice to make the modules optional.  Two different things.  

I didn't see anyone claiming that Sonar was perfect and defending the software.

That's the old line trotted out when you have a different opinion to some other users. You'll get used to it.

I voice my fair share of whines but unfortunately the ones I complain about aren't optional.

DAW software products have reached reached a high level of maturity, so their manufacturers are quite rightly seeking a way forward in terms of their business strategies.  I saw the survey as one of many litmus tests they must be using to help with this.

DAWs have all progressed from innovation, through extra add-ons/meaty upgrades every year, to 'me-too' features, to well, what next?  Some (Studio One, Bitwig) have opted for a 'back to basics/sleek/fast' course but they too will join the mainstream soon enough.  I don't know what's next - if I did I could monetise (what a dreaful word) it.   

trimph1


OK....I guess someone must be holding a knife to someone's throat ordering them to buy the PC mods...

I reckon it's Karl

SEVerstraten


Only thing I did not see mentioned in the survey is a Premium Subscription. Wouldn't that be something. with benefits like:
- Free (well you already paid for your subscription) PC-mods / add-ons
- Extra Pre-sets
- Extra Videos 
- First priority  ticket solving
- Immediate development of Feature Requests
- And of course: 24/7 101 Cakewalk Seminars from Brandon.

How much would ya pay for that per month?

There were "fill in the blank" portions of the survey to provide other ideas - did you take the time to add this to the survey? 

On another subject so this is not a reply to you directly SEVerstraten:

Someone a few posts back expressed how they don't what I saw as a feeling that the "top of the line" is is not the "top off the line" anymore, and that purchasing the lower tiered version might be a better alternative to paying for producer.  

My response would be that that's very much an alternative, a real possible answer for many, but ultimately it still fits the same "you buy what you will use" model.  Unfortunately if you take that path, you will loose the ability for the current a la cart offerings from Cakewalk as ProChannel is only available in Producer Expanded. which at this time requires Producer.  But if you don't want ProChannel it probably is a good idea, if you rely upon outside plugins for all your audio and MIDI FX, it's a realistic option, but like many have pointed out - Cakewalk isn't taking anything away from anybody, they are simply offering optional content - the Sonar Producer X1 you paid for is the same core product it was when you purchased it.  Nothing has changed.

This is not meant to be a "support" of Cakewalk post, it's just the reality of the DAW world.  As another person noted the core functionality of most credible DAW programs has reached the point where they are all very capable, one could choose any of them and successfully make quality music so little separates them in a competitive market.  They have to look to either bloating the package with tons of features that many would balk at paying for to attract users of others DAW programs, or, my preferred route, offer a la cart features, available to their DAW, that if I find useful might just be the key to attracting other users and keeping those happy with the core product.  This seems to be what customers were calling for for quite sometime (if you've been here for longer than the X1 release), for Cakewalk to start offering some of the features they would not use as optional purchases.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't, but it's probably going to end up being common.  Consumers supposedly like choice - I know I do.

Anything Cakewalk is asking if you would buy is ultimately a choice - one any individual is free to make.  You can hit the "BUY NOW" button, you can say "No Thanks".  It all up to you.  Free will is a beautiful thing.

John T


Each to their own, I suppose, but I don't really get this "top of the line" thing. What we've got with Sonar right now is the lowest base prices it's ever had, and more modularity. This has cost me less money and meant less redundancy. I think it's great.

My main point was that you have exactly what you knew you were getting with Sonar X1 Producer when you bought it.  How does adding optional stuff you can choose to buy, or not to buy, devalue what you bought?  Thats the short version - I'm just wordy by nature. 

Jind, I think you managed to put into words exactly what the rest of us were trying to say in a less than eloquent way.

But I wonder if this will mean less revenue in the long run for Cakewalk, which might adversely affect their ability to offer those other modular options. 

I think they're just trying to flatten their revenue curve. It must be extremely difficult to manage cash flow when 90% of your income comes from 1 major, annual release.


No wonder they were perceived to be rushing products out.

VariousArtist


Indeed.

I wonder if it would be more appealing, and easier to enhance and support, if Cakewalk just had one stripped down core product (instead of Home Studio and the various flavours of X1, etc.) and that everything else was a modular add-on:  Staff view, ProChannel, Piano Roll, Audio, AudioSnap, EventView, etc.

It's an interesting idea.  I know certain people, including Craig Anderton (at least if I understand his opinion on this type of issue), is that the best solution is to use the right tool for the right job.  If one has a heavy need for notation based/staff orchestration their are better tools out there than a watered down staff implementation in a DAW could ever do as it's just not at the core of what it is designed for and will always be an afterthought.  While I like feature rich products, I do know accept that as you get further away from the core functionality a third party product may, in many cases, offer a more complete solution if that requirement is mission critical.  But I do understand the importance of basic functionality being made available.  


I'm all for the modular approach, but if given the choice, I very may well choose another vendor for certain functionality if I feel it more capable for that required function.  Say Cakewalk offered a separate notation program, I would compare it to the already established products, make a price/feature/benefit comparison and make my choice based upon those criteria.  It just may be that the third party option is the one that makes more sense.


I'm all for a la cart however and I'm always going to like choices.  Optional is just that, optional.  In my book optional can be good.

Steve. i did not have all the other modules and i still got CL for $10. They altered the offer to $10 for any module

Seems an odd position to take, after all that insisting that you wanted to be able to uninstall the prochannel completely and have it not there at all, and that just switching it off and hiding it wasn't good enough. How do you square those two viewpoints?

John T

Seems an odd position to take, after all that insisting that you wanted to be able to uninstall the prochannel completely and have it not there at all, and that just switching it off and hiding it wasn't good enough. How do you square those two viewpoints?

Let me ask your opinion ... do you think Cakewalk will release any more VST's other than Pro Channel modules?

Here's a song from one of my favourite artists Hugh Cornwell (ex Strangler) - Recorded at Toe Rag studios using a lot of vintage gear and mixed down live to stereo track.

More interestingly is his ability to predict subjects on this forum several years before they happen. Quite remarkable...

I expected as much.

Myself, I think it would be interesting to see what kinds of VSTs might come out of the oven. I'd love it if that would be the case. 

I'd still like to see what else might show up as a PC module...

I have a question. Do you think that the next paid update (X1e,f,g or x2 or whatever it's called) will be compulsory as well?