Carissa Swenson
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The demeanor here, and its consequences
I don't post here much, but now and then I keep an eye on things that are Sonar because many of my students and associates use home-level DAW products and the field can be interesting.
I can't proportion the array of attitudes and stances seen at a web forum with any accuracy, but I can easily talk about my impressions and feelings about a site, and reflect on how those affect my willingness to contribute and be of value.
Indeed, the highest value of a forum such as this is the exchange of technical details on a technical product which has limited realtime support (any product, really, has vendor limitations in terms of support coverage and response).
When the nature of a forum becomes clique-and-buddy oriented, abusive and disrespectful as this forum has, then all of you have a real problem to deal with, as the very value of the place degrades due to many experts and users not even wanting to log in and participate. It's a quantity that you'll never be able to number, because no-shows can't be counted, but what can be counted is the time it takes to get a real solution to an issue.
I see petty name-calling, cheap derogation of others, snide back-handed sniping at those who don't carry the flag for this troubled X1 product, and in general a thick, repulsive buddy system of snobbery and rejection of others that makes this place similar to standing in the playground area of a juvenile detention center.
Of course, I'm not talking about many, many of the kind, productive contributors here, and I'm sure they aren't offended. I'm talking to the armchair brave who snip and quip at others whom they would well not treat in such a manner if personally present. I'm talking about folks who call another a "Phuckwad", as I just read minutes ago from an individual who also blindly asserted that an OP had pirated expensive software. I'm talking about the people who deride others and showboat verbally for their buds on the forum at the expense of the comfort of a poster (and truly at the expense of their own dignity and this forum's).
Fire away at this post, weak ones, but know for certain that your demeanor repels valuable people from contributing to this forum, and thusly hurts the product and its user-base in the short, mid and long run.
Carissa
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Twigman
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 04:29:21
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<joey tribbiani>
How you doing?
</joey tribbiani>
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jeffb9363
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 04:54:13
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Studio: X1P on Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR3. W7 x64. MOTU 1296, 2408 Mk3. TC-Helicon Voiceworks. BCF2000. Stage: Cantabile Performer 2 on E8600 @ 4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR2. W7 x64. 2408 Mk3, TC-Helicon Harmony-M.
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:10:51
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Doesn't it just reflect society...alot of the old members have left and you have a new breed coming from different DAWs and expectations are high!
All I can say is people have views that they cannot express in real life! Maybe they're gophers in real life and the only way that they feel that they can be someone is by having Platinum member by their names.
Some have ADHD and their post count is very high its a disease, a very bad sick disease! Carissa there is no cure for it...this is the way how it is. We have been plaqued and Cakewalk have not found the cure yet!
Be patient, one day the cure will be found but will the people ever be the same again ohhh Carissa...its a vicious world in here!
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Chromatic8
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:16:42
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Agree 100%. It's hard to keep in mind that you may help a few folks with your input as you anticipate the inevitable blast of ignorance and/or jingoism so you keep your mouth shut. And so the signal goes down and the noise goes up.
-c8
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mudgel
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:19:34
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Carissa Swenson
I don't post here much, but now and then I keep an eye on things that are Sonar because many of my students and associates use home-level DAW products and the field can be interesting.
I can't proportion the array of attitudes and stances seen at a web forum with any accuracy, but I can easily talk about my impressions and feelings about a site, and reflect on how those affect my willingness to contribute and be of value.
Indeed, the highest value of a forum such as this is the exchange of technical details on a technical product which has limited realtime support (any product, really, has vendor limitations in terms of support coverage and response).
When the nature of a forum becomes clique-and-buddy oriented, abusive and disrespectful as this forum has, then all of you have a real problem to deal with, as the very value of the place degrades due to many experts and users not even wanting to log in and participate. It's a quantity that you'll never be able to number, because no-shows can't be counted, but what can be counted is the time it takes to get a real solution to an issue.
I see petty name-calling, cheap derogation of others, snide back-handed sniping at those who don't carry the flag for this troubled X1 product, and in general a thick, repulsive buddy system of snobbery and rejection of others that makes this place similar to standing in the playground area of a juvenile detention center.
Of course, I'm not talking about many, many of the kind, productive contributors here, and I'm sure they aren't offended. I'm talking to the armchair brave who snip and quip at others whom they would well not treat in such a manner if personally present. I'm talking about folks who call another a "Phuckwad", as I just read minutes ago from an individual who also blindly asserted that an OP had pirated expensive software. I'm talking about the people who deride others and showboat verbally for their buds on the forum at the expense of the comfort of a poster (and truly at the expense of their own dignity and this forum's).
Fire away at this post, weak ones, but know for certain that your demeanor repels valuable people from contributing to this forum, and thusly hurts the product and its user-base in the short, mid and long run.
Carissa
With 5 posts in the last year before this one your casual observations nonetheless are worthy of consideration. Many folks leave here for one reason or another. some because they change to another major DAW and they no longer maintain an obvious presence which can really only be made by frequent contributions. they're busy on another forum. Some state their disgust to goings on and leave because of that. Others just tolerate it as just a small part of the whole which they choose to overlook in favor of what is positive. YOu mention your students using various DAWS. What is it that you teach that involves your students in using one or another DAW?
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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kb420
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:27:19
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Carissa, this forum can be completely vicious at times. I've been brutally attacked here on more than one occasion and it's caused me to stop posting here as much as I did when I first became a user of Sonar. All in all, I do believe that if you come here looking for help, there are people here that are willing to lend a helping hand. If you come here with the intent to vent your frustrations about bugs, you will find a shoulder to cry on, and if you come here looking for an argument, you're guaranteed to get one. The forum is just a microcosm of society itself. If you don't let the negative conditions of society get you down in real life, then don't let the negative conditions of this forum keep you away. Remember, life is what you make it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqCZBgsl9tA
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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chuckebaby
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:31:03
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if you care that much than youll come in here and post more..make a difference in here..if not than your just looking at a problem and turning your head..i like your attitude..its refreshing we need someone with that type of attitude.so whats it going to be?...6 more posts a year or spend more time in here and make a difference?i guess you get out of this forum what you put in to it.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:40:27
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Only if the world stayed the same for one year!
However, you are forever young Carissa!!!
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daryl1968
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:52:09
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/02/15 16:46:29
......it seams to me that everyone is being exceedingly polite to Carissa.
Could that be anything to do with the photo?
You realize that Carissa is actually a 300 pound truck driver called Frank.
He is drawing you into his web - beware.
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SeveredVesper
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:52:39
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Why don't you join us peaceful peeps downstairs? 
Check out my band's song on YouTube!
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SeveredVesper
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 07:55:18
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daryl1968
......it seams to me that everyone is being exceedingly polite to Carissa.
Could that be anything to do with the photo?
You realize that Carissa is actually a 300 pound truck driver called Frank.
He is drawing you into his web - beware.
Maybe because the ones who posted weren't the ones who were offended and are guilt-free, don't you think?
Check out my band's song on YouTube!
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Chromatic8
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:10:15
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daryl1968
......it seams to me that everyone is being exceedingly polite to Carissa.
Could that be anything to do with the photo?
You realize that Carissa is actually a 300 pound truck driver called Frank.
He is drawing you into his web - beware.
I actually thought "she" was a male Cakewalk employee or possibly Mike McCue but that kind of speculation serves nobody (which must be why I just did it). My wife says the writing style could be female but my gut says otherwise. -c8
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:25:31
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Carissa darling! are you a singer perhaps?
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tyacko
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:27:53
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I can understand the frustration someone can have with software not working as expected. Especially when it is something you are passionate about like music/recording. Even more so when it is a business you are running.
The toughest thing Cakewalk and other DAW vendors face is that a lot of people who want to record don't come with year of technology backgrounds, so the user just needs it to work. But, honestly you need to have some technology knowledge to get all of the components to work together. If you don't then Pro-Tools HD is the way to go (except for the cost).
Tom
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digi2ns
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:35:26
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Wow-Nice perception and well put together.
I cant help but think of the way one makes a posting trying to resolve or get their questions out and how others respond. My thoughts are I take everything just for face value only as everyone reads the same sentence in a different way and can easily misinterpret the context in which they meant to come across. As for the post that are obvious in a bad way-I just IGNORE them.
To many factors come into play in forums with THOUSANDS of people visiting. I assume some of them are Anti Sonar users posing to stir things up, others arent even Sonar owners, and the occassional un-happy customer looking for support, help from others, or whatever before trying the greener grass on the other side of the street to find out that problems exist there as well.
This is my first and only DAW and I dont see myself going anywhere else :)
There are clicks and groups within the Forum (like anywhere else in the world) but I havent found any that doesnt welcome anyone and in those situations IMO I have found that those that read selectively and take things out of context can fall into the offended side very easily (human nature). Most of the time, you can see others catch it and try to resolve or reassure that that isnt the case. You can come in and have fun but dont jump in the middle of a conversation, take things out of context and to heart, blow em outa proportion and stir things up.
Thanks for the post & dont be a stranger. I really enjoyed what you had to say and am curious as well as what you are instructing with users of different DAWS.
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:35:48
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Would you say that PT's is a steady ship for the more serious customer?
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:40:43
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digi2ins are you refering to me as anti sonar? cos I would have you know that I like Sonar alot! I came from Cubase over to Sonar and I am glad I did. Ok I nevr purchased X1 I am waiting until they get it right. I cant be fussed by being on the gravey train to a destination that I have to cycle the train to get it to move.
So please, please stop insulting me and taking the post out of context for the sake of Clarissa!
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trimph1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:43:49
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mmmmm...me thinks some people can get carried away in their frustration a tad...I just let it roll off the back....
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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digi2ns
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:50:25
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 No sir/maam, not at all. I wasnt referring to anyone person. Just my perception on public places in general. I read and take in many negatives as others do but its the one " thank you" that rules out all the bad vibes "I" come across and ignore that keeps me coming back or me being av
ble able to get help as needed and "thank" someone else.
post edited by digi2ns - 2011/03/30 08:52:30
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 08:51:47
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The worst behaviour I've ever witnessed on this forum is by newcomers or accidental posters who have totally misunderstood something, are frustrated and get angry because they're not capable of accepting that they're misunderstanding something. The rest of the bluntness usually comes from experienced forumites who quite simply lose their patience with some youngsters who come here to be spoonfed because they don't want to spend time reading the manual. That's human. Otherwise, and anyway, the forum manners here are definately as good as on any similar forum. A forum like this with many regular posters who "know" each other since eternity inevitably has some introvert "buddy-club"-features. Welcome to the real world, Carissa. People are different. Some are capable of expressing their moods in a sophisticated manner, some, especially the ones who don't speak english very well, use more blunt/clumsy expressions. I'm not looking for excuses for bad manners, but this is a forum of average people from all over. A music maker can be a recovering mental patient, truck driver or a professor of chinese litterature. On a forum of chinese litterature you'll find a more homogenous user base with more homogenous behaviour. Usually, when someone goes badly out line here, it's the regular writers who put the barker in the cage. I believe you have just stumbled over a spot of bad posts :o) (X1 invited a lot of newcomers here, and the bugs in it did arouse hotter discussion than normal)
post edited by Kalle Rantaaho - 2011/03/30 08:55:21
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:00:51
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Thank you for clearing that up I hope you have a pleasant day!
Kalle Rantaaho....so you trying to say that I miss understood something and R u trying to call me an angry trucker who is a recovering nutcase!
I take offence to your rant and if I ever see you inmy local public house I would endeavour to knock your block off!
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trimph1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:13:47
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mmmmm...me thinks spring can't get here soon enough..... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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chuckebaby
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:19:45
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Dappa1
digi2ins are you refering to me as anti sonar? cos I would have you know that I like Sonar alot! I came from Cubase over to Sonar and I am glad I did. Ok I nevr purchased X1 I am waiting until they get it right. I cant be fussed by being on the gravey train to a destination that I have to cycle the train to get it to move.
So please, please stop insulting me and taking the post out of context for the sake of Clarissa!
o come on..you know x1 is ready..ive recorded 5 flawless songs in the last month 3 before the b patch..then i loaded half a project i started in x1a and finished it in x1b..it all depends on who you talk to..some are experiencing real problems..some are not..some people are just plain clueless using outdated software thinking x1 will run on it..theres not many..but a few. you tell me since this latest patch why you think its not ready and what your waiting for?your still using 8/5/3??but yet your hanging in the x1 forum?because most everyone has upgraded.and noone is in the 8/5 forum hardly ever....if you tell me you dont have the money i will respect you more than if you say your waiting till they get it right..dont hold your breath..there very well not be another patch that comes out.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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chuckebaby
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:23:24
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Dappa1
Thank you for clearing that up I hope you have a pleasant day!
Kalle Rantaaho....so you trying to say that I miss understood something and R u trying to call me an angry trucker who is a recovering nutcase!
I take offence to your rant and if I ever see you inmy local public house I would endeavour to knock your block off!
i believe these are the things the op was talking about..people making physical threats.really? are you going to go there?your opinion is one thing.threatening to knock someone out is another..cant you just find better words to use?
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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trimph1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:25:44
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chuckebaby
Dappa1
Thank you for clearing that up I hope you have a pleasant day!
Kalle Rantaaho....so you trying to say that I miss understood something and R u trying to call me an angry trucker who is a recovering nutcase!
I take offence to your rant and if I ever see you inmy local public house I would endeavour to knock your block off!
i believe these are the things the op was talking about..people making physical threats.really?
are you going to go there?your opinion is one thing.threatening to knock someone out is another..cant you just find better words to use?
He was joking!! He was joking!! No need to get excited.... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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chuckebaby
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:30:36
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 trimph1
chuckebaby
Dappa1
Thank you for clearing that up I hope you have a pleasant day!
Kalle Rantaaho....so you trying to say that I miss understood something and R u trying to call me an angry trucker who is a recovering nutcase!
I take offence to your rant and if I ever see you inmy local public house I would endeavour to knock your block off!
i believe these are the things the op was talking about..people making physical threats.really?
are you going to go there?your opinion is one thing.threatening to knock someone out is another..cant you just find better words to use?
He was joking!! He was joking!! No need to get excited....
my apologizes..i didnt know..didnt see any smiley face..or "lol"..sorry :)
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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trimph1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:33:24
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Take care....
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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dappa1
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 09:42:10
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I think I mentioned it before that some people are happy with change others aren't. I have known people to rant and rave about how many bugs are in X1 then I see them write that 8.5.3 had so many bugs which they could live with. Truth si they have always lived with bugs in the software nothing has changed there.
I guess impatience can be a deciding factor at times...I have no qualms with anyone in these forums and for the most part I cant afford to stress myself over a few pixels on a LCD screen. If I was making millions with Sonar maybe that would be different but the truth of the matter is I am not...upgrading, cross grading doesn't mean a thing to me.
What actually does matter, is what is happening in the world and how it affects me and the people I love and the people I don't really love.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:The demeanor here, and its consequences
2011/03/30 10:08:17
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Carissa, I think your post is both insightful and accurate. Most of us IMO do not understand or underestimate the effect we have on the world and within this forum, so we see a lot of overstated and many times inappropriate posts. Another thing that makes a forum unique is that we are not actually communicating with another human being. There's no one really there, so you can't see facial expressions, feel emotions and all the other things that go with really talking with someone else. Given that, many posts get misinterpreted like the one above for example. It's inevitable but we forget that and take things verbatum on a forum. In real one on one communication it's way more important HOW you say something than what you say. Here on a forum there's very little 'how' and almost all 'what' so we're misunderstood MOST of the time. That creates these really weird battles that come out of nowhere, but again are inevitable because no one is really there to figure out how they're saying something. If any of that is true, it's also true that the more objective, helpful posters that occupy this board the more the tenor may change for the better. So I echo the invite that you might post here a little more and see if you don't have a positive effect on the forum. EDIT: Not to negate the positive effect your post has already had.
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/03/30 10:23:05
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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