AnsweredThe "new" Sonar X4 Advantage

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dubdisciple
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 12:43 AM (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 May 26, 14 8:04 AM
I don't think he gets the fact that what he wants amounts to paying more and getting less. If you don't want the extras don't install them and that still comes out costing less than what he suggests. Stability is a non-sequitor since the extras don't change the core of the program. There's plenty of features I don't use on every program I own and sometimes I discover they were more useful than I thought. At that moment I am grateful since the a la carte approach would have meant I would never have discovered some very useful features
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Soundblend
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 12:45 AM (permalink)
Anderton
Soundblend
 
 
Why are people buying 3rd party plugins, synths etc !
Cause they'r not satisfied with what they got in the package they buy'd in the first place, just admit it. ;-)




Have you considered that people are satisfied with what comes with the package, but have specialized needs for specific types of projects? For example if you are doing film soundtracks you need heavy-duty orchestral libraries. Quality ones are very expensive, including something like East West or Kontakt in Sonar would raise the price astronomically. If you're doing dance music you might want something like Diva, which requires lots of CPU and makes no sense for someone doing hard rock...who might want a fantastic B3 emulation which is useless to the person doing dance music.
 
Someone doing voiceover or broadcast work might want noise reduction or restoration plug-ins that are expensive and of no use to the casual user. Hip-hop producers will want large loop libraries. And so on. 
 
Does the fact that all these people have different requirements mean they're not satisfied with what's in Sonar? Of course not. It simply means that different people have very different needs and expectations of what they want from a DAW. The flaw in your logic is that it assumes that you are representative of all users.



I understand different VSTI's and librarys is required for a certain type of sound and music style
and there's a lot of great library's  out there for NI Kontakt and so forth.

I have demoed Kontakt 5, and seen a lot of videos, a great instrument.
Would really like a nice GM library for that one, as a core library.

I could use me instead of ( we ) in my first post, my intention was not to speak for everyone
and decide that is the best solution etc, rather than i was trying to promote a wish
how i would like it to be.

Regarding Filesize of download for Sonar X3 ( digital download ) it contain 4 downloadable files
giving a total size of 8Gb to download, about 2 Gb per file.
#32
scook
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 12:53 AM (permalink)
I always thought TTS-1 was about as good as it gets for a GM synth. When I need something that sounds "better" it falls to a different special purpose synth.
#33
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 12:56 AM (permalink)
dubdisciple
I don't think he gets the fact that what he wants amounts to paying more and getting less. If you don't want the extras don't install them and that still comes out costing less than what he suggests. Stability is a non-sequitor since the extras don't change the core of the program. There's plenty of features I don't use on every program I own and sometimes I discover they were more useful than I thought. At that moment I am grateful since the a la carte approach would have meant I would never have discovered some very useful features


Yes i would happily pay the same price for Sonar X3 PRO " Lite " a Proper secondary name would be Core
and just have all the Prochannel FX's but there should be an better GM VSTi synth, than TTS along with it.

As long i could have it all in less than 800mb / 1Gb size.
post edited by Soundblend - May 17, 14 1:03 PM
#34
Beepster
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:03 PM (permalink)
scook
I always thought TTS-1 was about as good as it gets for a GM synth. When I need something that sounds "better" it falls to a different special purpose synth.




Yeah... I shouldn't have used that as an example. I'm just very object oriented right now with my needs and already "own" the TTS-1 from previous versions so in my "Lite" scenario if I wanted to use it it would be there.
 
I just replied to John in another thread about still being confused about the whole MIDI "channel" thing and I think the TTS will be the test synth I use to clear up that confusion. I'm assuming that it mostly uses traditionally standard channels and MIDI notes for most sounds too so if that is the case it would be educational to figure out what to write and where if I want a MIDI track that will translate easily to other synths.
 
Right now I'm forcing things to be where I want by changing parameters where needed either on the hardware or internal mapping features instead of using the old agreed upon methods. Basically hackwork... as usual. lol
#35
scook
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:05 PM (permalink)
I did not know you used TTS-1 as an example. I was not reading your "Lite" requests as they were not  relevant to the original post. sorry
#36
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:11 PM (permalink)
Heh... no, I'm sorry. I thought you were referring to my mention of that particular synth. Woops.
 
;-)
#37
djwayne
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:11 PM (permalink)
You want lite ?? Buy the Studio version, or even the Essential version. I'll gladly pay for the extras in Producer. 
 
You get what you pay for, or don't pay for. 
 
The Producer version has saved me a fortune in third party plug-in costs that I don't need.
#38
scook
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:15 PM (permalink)
The OP .sig shows X3 Studio but it still has too much stuff (even though the bandwidth is not a problem and an advanced install could skip installing the extras).
#39
dubdisciple
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:17 PM (permalink)
Soundblend
dubdisciple
I don't think he gets the fact that what he wants amounts to paying more and getting less. If you don't want the extras don't install them and that still comes out costing less than what he suggests. Stability is a non-sequitor since the extras don't change the core of the program. There's plenty of features I don't use on every program I own and sometimes I discover they were more useful than I thought. At that moment I am grateful since the a la carte approach would have meant I would never have discovered some very useful features


Yes i would happily pay the same price for Sonar X3 PRO " Lite " a Proper secondary name would be Core
and just have all the Prochannel FX's but there should be an better GM VSTi synth, than TTS along with it.

As long i could have it all in less than 800mb / 1Gb size.


That's just it. You would not likeley get it for the same price. The whole restructure would likely involve renegotiated pricing from third parties leading to price increases across the board.
#40
djwayne
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:20 PM (permalink)
I think if I remember correctly, somebody made a list of the plug-ins in Producer and tallied it up to be over $1,000 worth of plug-ins if bought separately. Producer is already a bargain. 
#41
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:24 PM (permalink)
Soundblend
dubdisciple
I don't think he gets the fact that what he wants amounts to paying more and getting less. If you don't want the extras don't install them and that still comes out costing less than what he suggests. Stability is a non-sequitor since the extras don't change the core of the program. There's plenty of features I don't use on every program I own and sometimes I discover they were more useful than I thought. At that moment I am grateful since the a la carte approach would have meant I would never have discovered some very useful features


Yes i would happily pay the same price for Sonar X3 PRO " Lite " a Proper secondary name would be Core
and just have all the Prochannel FX's but there should be an better GM VSTi synth, than TTS along with it.

As long i could have it all in less than 800mb / 1Gb size.




Well... if you are willing to pay the same price Sonar comes in multiple downloads. Just download the core program and go scout out another synth that you do like. This is kind of... uh... weird.
#42
dubdisciple
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:40 PM (permalink)
I'm struggling to see what is so hard about not downloading the parts you don't want. The other thing I don't get is how this dream core package you suggest comes in a form everyone would agree on. Personally I think the Nomad delays and the sonitus delay are better than the cakewalk delay. Under your proposal we would pay more for these items. This is world class looking a gift horse In the mouth
#43
John T
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:40 PM (permalink)
I don't really get why the file size matters. Modern hard drives have huge capacity. A couple of gigs costs next nothing, even on SSD.

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#44
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:48 PM (permalink)
I have a fresh clean new windows install with sonar Now.

But ill gonna, re install again and see how mutch i can get rid of that i don't use
i bet i cant get a install less than 1.5Gb anyway, even if i skip what i can of library's
demos or whatever the options in the installer say.

Ill leave out all VSTi's, besides:
 
* TTS
* Melodyne

FX's to keep if possible:

* LP-64EQ
* LP-64 Multiband
* Channel Tools
* Boost 11

to keep:
Cal script ,Studioware panels , track and project templates, stuff like that

if there's options for it, then ill see how mutch it is possible to get Sonar down too.

ill be back in about 2 hours, with an update to this.






#45
scook
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:51 PM (permalink)
StudioWare panels are not installed by default. You really use them? They consume about 24MB.
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Beepster
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:54 PM (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Soundblend May 17, 14 4:12 PM
I still think this is weird but you probably shouldn't mess with the core program. As far as plugs I notice you listed the Boost11 so you obviously need a limiter. If possible you should try to keep the Blue Tubes brickwall as well. It's significantly less harsh than the Boost11.
#47
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 1:57 PM (permalink)
I was not going to discuss the choice of limiter beep but I definitely could do without Boost11. The clamor for it when it was included in a lessor product was funny.
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dubdisciple
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 2:01 PM (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Soundblend May 17, 14 4:12 PM
Hate to pile one but of all the plugins to keep, boost 11? It has its uses if one is careful but I would argue it is the very worst of included dynamics plugins. If you must delete, start there.
#49
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 2:12 PM (permalink)
What's a Studioware Panel? :-/
#50
scook
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 2:26 PM (permalink)
Old stuff for controlling hardware via MIDI with a custom created UI.
#51
John T
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 2:34 PM (permalink)
Boost 11 is a terrible mastering limiter, but it's great on bass. I use it a lot.

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#52
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 2:38 PM (permalink)
Ah... I thought it might be an old type of ACT but it sounds like the reverse. Weird.
#53
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 4:12 PM (permalink)
Beepster
I still think this is weird but you probably shouldn't mess with the core program. As far as plugs I notice you listed the Boost11 so you obviously need a limiter. If possible you should try to keep the Blue Tubes brickwall as well. It's significantly less harsh than the Boost11.



Boost 11, yes it is harsh, but it work ok if u dont run it not mutch more than + 4.5 db

I am about to install Sonar now, i will try to exclude as mutch i can from the custom install...
i will install the Blue Tubes LM2S

EDIT:

Ok im at the Custom Installation screen now:

Selecting :

* Program Files ( Core files )

Studio mixing Suite:
* Blue tubes Limiter LM2S

Engineer FX Suite selected components:

* Boost 11
* Channel tools
* LP-64 Multiband
* LP-64 EQ

*  Melodyne essentials

* All Midi Plugins

Softsynth :
* Cakewalk TTS-1

and all librarys :

Recuired space 2.29Gb

Now after basic installation, i dont know if the uppdates will add more, or just uppdate
what i already have installed with the Custom installation.
post edited by Soundblend - May 17, 14 4:35 PM
#54
Dave Modisette
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 5:03 PM (permalink)
I want to use SONAR on a regular basis again but there is this gap between us that stops me dead in my tracks.  Sure, I was one of the guys who loved the included plugins and goodies but someone, somewhere in the hierarchy decided that the object was to make life easier through the use of bundled goodies at the expense of those who want to use 3rd party goodies.  Now, I have a nice assortment of somewhat pricey plugins and I have to work harder to use them.
 
Case in point, today as I tried to set up a template project, I quickly noticed and remembered that the maximum number of 3rd party plugins I could see in the Console view FX bin was three and then I had to scroll to see further than that.  I thought, I can lose the Prochannel because I don't use that and maybe there will be some way to expand the FX bin size.  Sorry Charlie, can't do that.
 
Another similar issue is the Sends module where the maximum number of sends you can see is two.  This is no bueno with complex mixes that might also include Cue Mixes.  And then the oversized widgets and wasted space in borders and frames.  Don't get me started.

I figured it out.  It's all about the touch screen bullet point.  You have to spread this stuff out and limit the number of widgets that can be seen because of fat fingers.  That's where the CW folks want to go with their vision of the future.  I'm seeing the same thing with the Slate Digital folks and their version of a touchscreen work surface.  Problem is, I don't want to go there if I have to scroll stuff so that I can see it.

I've been in Cakewalk forums for (I'm guessing) over 20 years so I know the choruses of "Just use something else, if you don't like what we like" will be forthcoming and I have done just that.   But it wasn't because I wanted to.




Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

http://www.gatortraks.com 
My music.
... And of course, the Facebook page. 
#55
Grem
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 5:44 PM (permalink)
Beepster
 
This is what usually happens to me. I make painfully calculated decisions about things, those decisions put me through a bunch of angst and weirdness but in the long rub work out for the best.



You just told my life story!!

Grem

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#56
Grem
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 5:51 PM (permalink)
@Dave- in a few years there will be 4K 10point touch 50" screens made into a console desk.

It's coming! Just hang on!!

Grem

Michael
 
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#57
Beepster
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 6:04 PM (permalink)
Grem
Beepster
 
This is what usually happens to me. I make painfully calculated decisions about things, those decisions put me through a bunch of angst and weirdness but in the long rub work out for the best.



You just told my life story!!



Typo and all? ;-)
#58
Grem
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 6:08 PM (permalink)
Hell I thought you meant that!!

LOL

(I didn't see it until I reread it!)

Grem

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#59
Soundblend
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Re: The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage May 17, 14 6:28 PM (permalink)
Ok all done , smallest installation of Sonar X3e i managed to get, was about 2.3 gb

Installed plugins total :

* Audiocation AC 1 Compressor
* Klanghelm DC8C2 Compressor
* Boost 11
* Channel Tools
* LP-64 Multiband
* LP-64 EQ
* Blue tubes limiter LM2S-3
* Sknote Rev 250
* Sknote Verbtone
* Sonimus Plugins (all )
* SplineEQ

Prochannel EQ , PC4K S Type channel compressor and Softube Saturation knob

Softsynths:
* Cakewalk TTS
* Dimension LE ( i did not select it, don't know why it got installed ! )

That concludes my tiny version of Sonar X3e

I have made an Ilok acc, and will buy an Ilok 2 plug

Later i may change my EQ's and Compressor with :

Softube or Slate Digital maybe Slate VMR 

But i still want my Sonar X4 Pro "Lite" version 
#60
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