The "new" Sonar X4 Advantage

Not sure who "We" are but the cafeteria plan has been suggested before. Probably not going to happen as Cakewalk has already answered, it is too hard to price and support. You are not forced to install anything you don't want. The upgrades are relatively inexpensive as it is. So it all comes down to bandwidth. For those upgrading from Producer X1 or X2 the download is less than 6GB.

I guess they " Cakewalk " go with what they have planned ofc
But is it not, important ? to listen to the customers and they'r wishes.
(and they have with a survey, before they released, was it X1, i cant remember ? )

Remember when Cakewalk " Twelv Tone System "came on Floppy disk's !

This just does not certainly only apply to Cakewalk

Look at windows, how the size has increased the past years 
of course you need more drivers and so forth, so it is understandable
that in some cases "Size do matters" , but they don't need to overdo it.

Look at virus scanners or Cd burning software, all kinds of software really
they had mutch smaller programs before, and it did work that time too.

It is possible to make software at less size.
Why should the buyer be forced to have a lot of junk he / she dont need
along with whatever they buy, now i am speaking in general ...

I know Harddrive space /ram etc is no problem, but that is not quite the issue or question here
rather than what u want, and leave the other out and let the customer choose what they want
and not the company that sell it.

I know this question / wish has been talked about before, but you don't always get
the cookie in the first attempt, do you ;-)

I love Sonar, and i am no hater, but some opinions and questions must be allowed.

Well anyway that is my wish, some may agree, many probably not.

I know that... i completely understand it, still if you choose custom install
it will still be above 3GB, or not to far from that, but it is not what i am talking about.

Issue is all the stuff u don't ever use, that is within the software when you download it
when you buy Sonar, making it 8Gb, when it could be 1GB ( Daw itself with plugins )

Are sure, you understand me !

I am not here to argue about this or get personal, just to tell what my wish is
and that it is fully possible to do so, but if they will do it, is another question.

Who uses everything that is shipped with sonar only ? And what don't you not use.. prob several things i guess
many want 3rd party plugins and FX's, and also uses that.

The pricing would make Sonar non-competitive for people who use more plug-ins than you. There are so many Sonar elements I use that aren't on your list - Dimension Pro and Rapture, all the Sonitus plug-ins, VX64 and PX64, TH2, Perfect Space for convolution, the Tempo Delay for dance mixes, Classic Phaser, a lot of the Blue Tube effects, Session Drummer because it's so easy to make my own kits, etc. If I had to buy each one of those separately on top of the version you foresee, the price would be way more than Sonar Producer. And I don't use True Pianos or Studio Instruments, so your version would still make me pay for things I don't use.
 
There are economies of scale from quantity pricing. My gut feeling is that the Sonar version you want is missing lots of elements that other people use all the time, and that its price wouldn't be much less than, say, Studio Edition which is expandable in many ways. Forcing people to buy what they use at "one-off" pricing would make Cakewalk very unpopular with its customers.
 
The only reason we're able to have tools like XLN and Melodyne in a $150 upgrade is because Cakewalk can go to companies and negotiate a low price based on quantity. Smaller quantities = higher prices. Since you wouldn't save much money, if any, then you can get the version you want simply by not installing what you don't want to use.

Let me make sure I understand you. You would rather pay more just so that you save a little time downloading stuff you don't have to install? A la carte is always costlier. The value aspect of Sonar totally goes out the window and you basically have people buying basic version and lots I of third party plugins.

I caused a bit of a controversy a while back regarding this topic but it was a very different approach. It seems you want specific plugs that you want to use which is very subjective and really is, as scook said, the "a la carte" approach and you seem to be suggesting the concept to cover new purchases.
 
What I suggested and still think would be a good idea is Sonar Producer Lite UPGRADE. It would only be for existing Producer customers so they could keep the core program current (without losing their Producer owner status) and retain/use the plugins they already got with previous version.
 
Applying this to the X3 release what you would have gotten with this upgrade (and you would have had to own at least X2 Producer to qualify) is Sonar X3 Producer with all of it's functions and absolutely NO extras. You WOULD however still be able to use all the plugins that came with your previous versions.
 
This way you get all bug fixes, improvements and be able to qualify for future Producer upgrades at the Producer owner price (either the next FULL version or this hypothetical LITE version).
 
That said... I didn't think that I NEEDED Addictive Drums because I own BFD Eco and was going to upgrade to BFD2 but Addictive Drums sounds awesome so it is useful to me. I didn't think that I NEEDED the Blue Tubes plugs but after playing with them and realizing that they model things that are standard studio equipment I would have wanted to buy third party anyway AND the limiter is way better than Boost11 for my stuff. I didn't think that I NEEDED Melodyne because I already had V-Vocal if I absolutely wanted pitch correction and had already been looking at Izotope Nectar as part of a bundle but V-V is notoriously messed up and Nectar is expensive AND Izotope has that crazy Audio to MIDI stuff going... etc.
 
So still... I really didn't NEED those things technically but holy crap are they going to make my life easier because I do not own a lot of plugs. I'm glad I have them now and really all that stuff might have saved me hundreds of dollars. However for those who already have it all or only use specific things and TRULY don't need anything I think the Producer "Lite" UPGRADE (only for existing Producer customers who paid for the ticket into the big leagues) would be a nice gesture for loyal customers who really don't need the extras.
 
$75 for such an upgrade would be reasonable. Perhaps even the old $100 upgrade price.
 
I'd say there's my two cents but I need those pennies for delicious salty pork products. ;-p

Are sure, you understand me !
I am not here to argue about this or get personal,
 
I'm not here to argue either Jan...a lot of people will just click the first button without doing a custom install...I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that.
 

In regards to the "Just upgrade to Studio" argument... the main issue I have with that is you lose your Producer customer status. If you choose Studio for one year then want to take Producer the next year, as far as I know, you are stuck paying the Studio user upgrade price. For me... well I'm a new guy so tough lumps for me but some of the dude's (and dudette's) who have been buying the flagship for 10-20 years... well that's a bit of a drag. I would even go as far to say you would only qualify for the Producer "Lite" version I suggested if you had been a Producer owner for 3 release cycles or more.
 
But whatever... I'm a wee bit crazy. lulz

Beepster
 
What I suggested and still think would be a good idea is Sonar Producer Lite UPGRADE. It would only be for existing Producer customers so they could keep the core program current (without losing their Producer owner status) and retain/use the plugins they already got with previous version.
 
$75 for such an upgrade would be reasonable. Perhaps even the old $100 upgrade price.
 

I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that it takes a LOT more work to develop the core program and add functionality like VST3 and ARA integration than it does to license plug-ins. Add in bug testing and QC, and that's where the upgrade money goes. The "goodies" aren't free, of course, but I don't think the upgrade you envision would be possible for $75. And even if it was $100, I think a lot of people would stretch the extra $50 to get hundreds of dollars worth of plug-ins. You need to use only one or two to justify the extra expense.

Soundblend

Anderton
The pricing would make Sonar non-competitive for people who use more plug-ins than you. There are so many Sonar elements I use that aren't on your list - Dimension Pro and Rapture, all the Sonitus plug-ins, VX64 and PX64, TH2, Perfect Space for convolution, the Tempo Delay for dance mixes, Classic Phaser, a lot of the Blue Tube effects, Session Drummer because it's so easy to make my own kits, etc. If I had to buy each one of those separately on top of the version you foresee, the price would be way more than Sonar Producer. And I don't use True Pianos or Studio Instruments, so your version would still make me pay for things I don't use.
 
There are economies of scale from quantity pricing. My gut feeling is that the Sonar version you want is missing lots of elements that other people use all the time, and that its price wouldn't be much less than, say, Studio Edition which is expandable in many ways. Forcing people to buy what they use at "one-off" pricing would make Cakewalk very unpopular with its customers.
 
The only reason we're able to have tools like XLN and Melodyne in a $150 upgrade is because Cakewalk can go to companies and negotiate a low price based on quantity. Smaller quantities = higher prices. Since you wouldn't save much money, if any, then you can get the version you want simply by not installing what you don't want to use.

Well most of the people here got Sonar Producer, and they still buy huge amounts of Vst's and VSTi's
also Library's etc from 3rd part seller / developer, and that is fine, you still use a huge amount of Money

Why are people buying 3rd party plugins, synths etc !
Cause they'r not satisfied with what they got in the package they buy'd in the first place, just admit it. ;-)

This is an indication for me that the stuff Shipped with the DAW(s), is not good enough

So how can we ever be satisfied ?

Tell me... many got prob 100 + vst Equalizer's, do whoever that own that, really do know they'r plugin's
and use em, all of em, not to mention compressors, gates, limiters and so on further.

If a EQ was good enough, you may have 2 EQ in total, and you would know it like your brother or sister
and how they perform and act in every way, you would never need a replacement for it right !

Then we have the G.A.S syndrome, thinking ahh this look very promising, i want something new
then ask your self, do you need it, why do you need it, will it cover what i intend to use it for
at all aspects of sound ? 

Me personal is looking hard to find what i want to use, i just want 2  : EQ, compressors
and 1 limiter a Reverb and a delay as basic tools. i want to be satisfied with the product and know it
and that i can rely it will deliver every time i use the plugins.

Aside from the limiter the included PC modules cover all that but in your OP you tossed in a ton of synths, VST's and other gack that you specifically want. That does not a stripped down version make. I don't really want TTS or some of that other stuff but you do. See where this turns into a problem.
 
A stripped down version should be a stripped down version. Not a stripped down version plus "everything I personally like".
 
As far as the loops and stuff... those are kind of just there. I don't think they cost Cake anything at this point and aren't really making them any money. They just offer them to you if you want and they are easily ignored. It's just something cool to play around with if you are so inclined. I actually used them to make my first song with X1 to learn my way around a little. Now I can make my own loops.

Anderton

Beepster
 
What I suggested and still think would be a good idea is Sonar Producer Lite UPGRADE. It would only be for existing Producer customers so they could keep the core program current (without losing their Producer owner status) and retain/use the plugins they already got with previous version.
 
$75 for such an upgrade would be reasonable. Perhaps even the old $100 upgrade price.
 

I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that it takes a LOT more work to develop the core program and add functionality like VST3 and ARA integration than it does to license plug-ins. Add in bug testing and QC, and that's where the upgrade money goes. The "goodies" aren't free, of course, but I don't think the upgrade you envision would be possible for $75. And even if it was $100, I think a lot of people would stretch the extra $50 to get hundreds of dollars worth of plug-ins. You need to use only one or two to justify the extra expense.

Indeed and the choices Cake makes in regards to what gets included are definitely quality ones. I mean TH2 is revolutionary to my personal work and as I mentioned I didn't think I needed the Blue Tubes stuff or AD but they sure are nice to have.
 
However for some of us starving artist types that extra $50-75 wouldn't be going towards more plugs... it would be going towards actually food or rent... yanno? Sad and, I guess if I were more prideful man, embarrassing to say that but that can be a reality. Also I did follow up with a potential caveat for the "Lite" upgrade qualification where perhaps you need to have consistently bought the Producer upgrade for a certain number of years. Kind of like a preferred customer discount/option.
 
As I said... when I brought it up initially it was somewhat controversial and I don't really want to revisit that unpleasantness but that was my personal take on the whole "strip down" issue. What is being suggested here seems unreasonable to me but my ideas were also deemed unreasonable by some so it proves the point... you can't always get what you want...
 
but if you try sometimes... doot doo doo... bleepity bloooooooo...
 

Beepster, your request is not unreasonable because it doesn't depend on having an entire release being made to accommodate your specific needs. If Cakewalk was a bigger company, it might be possible but they have their hands full developing the products they already have. Also, although in the immortal words of Herman Cain "I don't have the facts to back me up," based on my experience with multiple software companies over the years I highly doubt the difference would be $75...$50 at the outside, and maybe less. I realize that's not a trivial amount of money, but hey, it's less than what two reels of tape used to cost...

Anderton
 
 
I think the bottom line is you need to realize you represent a minority of users, and companies stay in business by trying to accommodate the majority of users. Accommodating the majority is also what allows keeping prices down.

Yes i am probably in the minority group, regarding my wishes ;-)
but still for me it is a happy thought, but it will prob never come true
so i guess i need to go with the flow like everyone else