John T
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 21:14:24
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John You know Goddard its time to give it a rest. I'm glad you have such a analytical mind and see so many faults in someone else's work but at some point its just obsessive and not all that informative.
Yeah, as I said way back on page 2 or something, I can't see how any of this bluster is adding to general comprehension of the topic. I think you can boil down Goddard's objection to the fact that there's no proof of higher sample rates being harmful. As far as I can tell, he has nothing else, apart from this - yes - irrelevant guff about realtek converters and conversations on newsgroups in the late 90s. The lack of proof for Lavry's claim is a reasonable enough point, but the words-to-meaning ratio, and the "information sharing"-to-"dick swinging" ratio in the thread overall is through the floor and heading for the earth's core.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 21:14:33
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Vab Goddard do you actually think anybody here is going to bother to read posts that long? No one has an attention span on the internet.
Hey, ya never know who may be reading. I type long novels all the time and know of 5 people that always read my posts. LOL! :) That's ok though, I'm happy to have 5 friends on here. :) Incidentally, I happened to have read this whole thread...some interesting stuff from quite a few people. Long reads are killer when they are done right. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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John T
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 21:16:38
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Yeah, with Danny on that. Quite like a long and detailed read, myself. Object to a wilfully obscurant waffle, but that's a slightly different point. In fairness, though, I suspect Vab was making a joke there.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 21:19:39
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2014/01/24 21:45:27
John T In fairness, though, I suspect Vab was making a joke there.
Yeah I felt he was too...but I saw "posts that long" and had to chime in due to my track record. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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robert_e_bone
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 22:11:17
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Alright, sooooooooooooo, huh? What does ANY of the last 7.5 pages of this matter? NONE of it means anything beyond the range of human hearing, and if one takes a moment to spin through the radio dial to what's current, fidelity has LONG gone by the wayside, and it's all way too much bass with crappy gangstas with their choppas in da closet. and Kanye liking fish sticks. :) The above is a nonsensical brain purge, caused by this thread, and not to be taken as anything to be taken. I am willing to bet that NOBODY thus far in this thread has changed their opinion ONE IOTA from wherever it was prior to joining in this thread. Sooooooooooo, what's the point at this point? I choose to use 48 K and 24-bit depth, and that's that. I REFUSE to hook the Large Hadron Collider into my rig, just to see if sampled fish farts are mathematically able to approach the speed of light during my cover of Louie Louie. A sampled fish fart is a sampled fish fart, no matter how deep the ocean. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Goddard
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 22:39:46
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Don't believe I'd ever advocated any particular sample rate as being superior, only took issue with scaremongering against 192k which has washed down from the high end pro and mastering market where it was originally directed and been picked up and perpetuated by bloggers and forumites. Anyway, audio production and distribution has been democratized, death to the industrial studio complex! And everyone has different gear and rooms and ears and needs and budgets and is free to choose whatever sounds and suits them best, no matter what anyone else might say. Better to make an informed decision than an uninformed, or worse, misinformed, one is all...
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mmorgan
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 22:49:53
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Danny Danzi Yeah I felt he was too...but I saw "posts that long" and had to chime in due to my track record. :) -Danny
I've heard some of your tracks, and, for the record: They are really quite nice. As are your novellas. Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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Vab
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 22:57:42
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This entire thread is funneh.
But for one I'm definitely not reading such massive posts.
I remember the studio technician complaining when I tried working with higher than CD standard depth and bit rates at uni, with him telling me 'theres no point in using higher rates when everything needs to be compressed to CD quality afterwards'.
Seriously, do people even still buy CDs? MP3 downloads is what's more popular today.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/24 23:57:12
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I thought I would take a stab at putting this thread into a bit of humorous perspective. It had gotten to a place where I don't think anyone really wanted to get to. I think that the strength of this forum is best realized when we strive to constructively serve each other, and when we lose sight of that, we lose a lot - and it is easy to do. I am at peace with the settings I have chosen for myself, 24-bit at 48 k, and hope others find peace with it all for their systems, as well, with whatever settings they choose for themselves, for whatever reasons make sense to them. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Vab
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 00:40:14
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Why not do it proper hardcore and make music using cassette recorders?
All this sonar, ponar ... What good is it? The beetles never needed this stuff, why do we?
Or just go sing karaoke at some random pub, audition for X factor and become rich and famous like the Cheeky Girls, or just play back a CD of dancey music in a club and be a talented modern DJ like Paris Hilton!
You know you want to grow up to be a fairy princess in a pink tutu like Britney Spears. Pure magical amazement!
What pills did I take this morning ... Erm, the wrong ones it seems.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 02:21:26
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Well, I think Sonar is fabulous - I just don't personally need to worry about things beyond the settings I choose to run with. And for those who choose to run with 192 k sample rates, or whatever, I with them all the best in their endeavors. For all we know, the brand new band 'The Bed Bugs' are using X3 to finish their breakout CD, somewhere in East London, inspired by the comping and the ARA integration of Melodyne. At 54 years of age, having grown up in the hissy world of cassette tapes and 8-tracks, ANY of the available settings in Sonar sound fantastic. That being said, I DID try out a bunch of different settings and DID do some research into it all, and I have chosen what I consider to be the best balance between performance and sonic quality - for MY setup. Hopefully, others find their own balance. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Grem
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 02:37:45
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☄ Helpfulby mike_mccue 2014/01/25 07:48:23
I have kept up with this whole thread from the beginning. Second time I've said it too.
Thanks Goddard for all your posts.
And why this thread has gotten to be judged as a "dick swinging" contest is beyond me.
I for one enjoyed all technical posts made by all.
@Bob bone: your are right on this account, this thread didn't change my mind. Just reminded me why I made the choices I did back then. (It was fascinating to me then and still is.)
Thanks to Noel for getting this discussion going!!
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robert_e_bone
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 03:08:57
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@Grem - Yeah - tons of good info, and debatable info - my only points were the one about the minds not changing, and my suggesting that folks try to keep it from being a bunch of negative 'attacks'. I wanted to try to bring it back to a civil discussion. There were a lot of good points made, and I wish folks didn't have to sift through the noise to get at the good info. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Grem
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 03:12:32
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Grem Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
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mudgel
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 03:41:02
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brundlefly I have just one question. Is this an Input meter or an Output meter?

I've always said; "Excreta Taurus Baffelum Cranius".
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 08:03:51
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SONAR does 384kHZ. Just saying. ;-) Does anyone want to elaborate on the sample hold optimization?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 08:27:11
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Aaaah - here we go.... :) Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mettelus
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 08:37:32
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@Bob... yup, there is a lot of good information here, but finding it is becoming a bear. A course in journalism might help... front loading "the point" and major data helps folks like me with short attention spans to get to the end of a post (or not even need to).
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randyman
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 08:43:03
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(what do i know) but I think the 32bit referred to for the bounce is computer processing, not a bit depth of music data. (good chance i'm wrong - i've not had my coffee yet  )
A rack of noisemakers is not a definitive substitute for creativity. (though it does seem to help) what I spend my lunch time doing: (don't laugh - its just for fun!) www.soundclick.com/rnewburn
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John
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 09:00:06
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No it is also a file format for audio. There is a 64 bit file format for audio too.
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randyman
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 09:04:20
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thanks for setting me straight John. I smell bacon in the kitchen - going to be a good day!
A rack of noisemakers is not a definitive substitute for creativity. (though it does seem to help) what I spend my lunch time doing: (don't laugh - its just for fun!) www.soundclick.com/rnewburn
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John T
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 10:21:56
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robert_e_bone Alright, sooooooooooooo, huh? What does ANY of the last 7.5 pages of this matter? NONE of it means anything beyond the range of human hearing
Ah, no, got to disagree there. The entire thing under discussion is that things are happening outside of the range of human hearing which are relevant to the sound you end up with. What those things are and how much the matter is open to question.
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Beepster
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 11:20:17
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Well there was that one blurb about ultra high sample rates can interact beyond the audible frequency range and create noise WITHIN the audible frequency range. But that's probably the opposite of the point Bob was making.
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John T
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 11:44:47
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Sure, that's complete guff.
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John
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 11:59:25
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Sound doesn't work that way. It does not create lower frequencies from higher frequencies.
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Beepster
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 12:05:25
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John T Sure, that's complete guff.
Sarcasm? Seriously I have no idea whether that's the case or not. I can only attempt to decipher all this wacky sciency stuff with my cranial equivalent of a cereal prize decoder ring. A little insight into my profile pic. I'm the little kitten curiously beeping the noses of the big dogs to see if any useful info comes out. Many times it does. Sometimes I just become lunch.
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Beepster
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 12:06:40
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John Sound doesn't work that way. It does not create lower frequencies from higher frequencies.
But that's what the article says... I think. Okay... I'll leave now. Doggies are lookin' hungry. :-/
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John
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 12:11:57
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Not everything in that article is true. That is a given. What I have been objecting to with Goodard is the whole sale dismissing all of it because a few unimportant facts were misstated.
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Beepster
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 12:17:52
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I think he's one of those dudes who just likes to argue. On the internet I hear it's considered a art.
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John
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Re: The science of sample rates
2014/01/25 12:19:35
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I think his avatar says it all, Beep.
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