sharke
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 14:42:11
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abacab
I think one answer was to avoid leaving any midi track inputs set to Omni, except those you want to listen.
Apparently NONE defaults to Omni, so set MIDI track inputs to Virtual Controller, or something, unless you are actually using them.
I wish avoiding omni was the answer. Unfortunately, it's not. I currently have a project in which an instance of MIDI-generating plugin Cthulhu is sending MIDI data to a synth bass track. Therefore, the synth bass track's MIDI input is set to Cthulhu, not omni. I also have an instance of Geist in the project, another MIDI outputting plugin. During playback, if I click on the Geist track, it routes Geist's MIDI output to the synth bass track despite the fact that its input is set to Cthulhu. You can imagine the resulting cacophony of drum MIDI being sent to a synth bass. There are definitely issues of MIDI leakage within Sonar which need addressing. It's not just the issue outlined above - I was working in a project the other day in which so much as toggling mute on a track would trigger a kick drum on a completely unrelated track. There are many oddities like this in Sonar which distract from the whole music making experience.
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auto_da_fe
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 15:20:24
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Not sure if this has been mentioned as it is a very long thread.
None as an input does not mean none (always shows omni)...not sure why. But when I want 'none' i select the virtual keyboard, ch 1 (which is not active and therefore supplies no midi)
I still think enable midi out is a mess and very unpredictable how inputs from vstis trigger other vstis. I have even had enable midi out not trigger during mixdown, but plays great when mixing.
I have come to a personal work flow that works around all the uncertainty and weirdness but if I was new to this DAW I would be very frustrated.
JR
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abacab
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 18:56:11
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sharke
I wish avoiding omni was the answer. Unfortunately, it's not. I currently have a project in which an instance of MIDI-generating plugin Cthulhu is sending MIDI data to a synth bass track. Therefore, the synth bass track's MIDI input is set to Cthulhu, not omni. I also have an instance of Geist in the project, another MIDI outputting plugin. During playback, if I click on the Geist track, it routes Geist's MIDI output to the synth bass track despite the fact that its input is set to Cthulhu. You can imagine the resulting cacophony of drum MIDI being sent to a synth bass.
Yup, that sounds worthy of a bug report!
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SquireBum
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 19:58:19
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sharke
I wish avoiding omni was the answer. Unfortunately, it's not. I currently have a project in which an instance of MIDI-generating plugin Cthulhu is sending MIDI data to a synth bass track. Therefore, the synth bass track's MIDI input is set to Cthulhu, not omni. I also have an instance of Geist in the project, another MIDI outputting plugin. During playback, if I click on the Geist track, it routes Geist's MIDI output to the synth bass track despite the fact that its input is set to Cthulhu. You can imagine the resulting cacophony of drum MIDI being sent to a synth bass.
What was the MIDI Input for the Cthulhu track and was Input Monitoring enabled on the Cthulhu track? Just a theory, since I don't own Cthulhu or Geist: Since Cthulhu is attached to the Bass Synth track, Cthulhu passes any MIDI data that is entering the Cthulhu track when Input Monitoring is enabled. If the MIDI Input to Cthulhu is acting as an Omni port, then any data that is generated by Geist will reach Cthulhu and be passed to the Synth Bass. On my system, if I select None after I enable Input Monitoring, the port does not pass MIDI. The problem is that if I turn Input Monitoring off and back on, the MIDI Input goes back Omni and I have to select None again. Hope this helps, -- Ron
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mettelus
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 20:22:52
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The only fail-safe work around is to record the audio out to take the MIDI offline. WRT Geist, MIDI fires off discrete (and unalterable) channels, so using any other channels within SONAR with Geist using those (up to 11 of them) is not possible. If routing were beefed up so that SONAR isolated "Geist MIDI Channel 1" to then be used as an input discretely where you want it to go would be nice, but I often get into the issue of all Channel 1 commands get heard by everything monitoring Channel 1. Internal to SONAR this should be manageable with very defined MIDI routing (visually mapped highly preferred); but if it exists, I haven't found it yet. AFAICT MIDI Channel 1 from any synth with MIDI output enabled appears the same as any other Channel 1.
Since Geist is a DAW in essence, I have taken to moving samples into it and recording the audio outputs (or even monitoring those outputs), but to drive other synths (like AD2) was hit or miss due to a few reasons.
I have not tried external routings like Loopbe30, so not sure if they are viable (but may very well be).
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gustabo
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 21:03:16
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For absolutely no midi input, I created a midi input preset that selects channel 16 on a midisport that is plugged in but not being used.
No chance of "bleed" that way for me.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/17 21:13:30
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I almost always set the midi input for midi tracks to midi Omni for a specific controller, and I don't seem to have any of these issues.
So, I hover on one of my midi controllers, and then when the channels list opens, I usually then select the Midi Omni from there, and it just works for me.
Bob Bone
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mettelus
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/18 05:34:51
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The issue with Geist in particular is that the MIDI output is truly an output rather than a "MIDI thru" scenario. There is a clear distinction here, so the MIDI input selection to Geist is no solution pathway. If running Geist, either MIDI output must be off, or all channels it is firing must be known. There is no visual indicator to readily know these situations to that detail in SONAR, let alone discreetly path them.
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pwalpwal
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/18 08:20:24
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sharke
if I click on the Geist track, it routes Geist's MIDI output to the synth bass track despite the fact that its input is set to Cthulhu.
that sounds like a bug in the "monitor input on selected track" (or "focused"? i'm still not sure of the difference)
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pwalpwal
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/18 08:22:05
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gustabo
No chance of "bleed" that way for me.
well, the bleed is still there, but there's no data to cause trouble!
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/18 10:18:12
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sharke
A little OT but I still don't understand why "none" doesn't just mean "none."
Sometimes you don't want ANY MIDI reaching a track and it's ridiculous that you should have to be selecting anything but "none" to do this.
Every time I insert Jamstix into a project and use its MIDI-out I encounter the familiar annoyance of having Jamstix playing a freaking crazy-ass bass line on another track until I set that track's MIDI input to my keyboard. Sort this out Cakewalk!
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/18 10:19:25
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Anderton
I'd be happy to test this but don't know if I have any plug-ins that generate MIDI out. Do any of SONAR's built-in plugs have it, or any common ones from NI, Arturia, etc.?
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar
2017/01/18 10:22:58
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