Scott Lee

 

VST3 is a mandatory component for Melodyne's integration api. Having melodyne integration within Sonar Xx does seem like a sought after feature many would like to see. VST3 does give the end user more options plugin / hardware wise. The question is how much? NAMM will be interesting this year I believe to sort out some of the misconceptions of industry standards. For me personally, I get more functionality out of my Access Virus TI via VST3. Not a game changer in any regards, but options nonetheless. 

firefly9000


NEW VST 3 Features - from steinberg site.

Improved performance

Managing large plug-in sets and multiple virtual instruments on typical studio computer systems can often be difficult because of CPU performance limits. VST3 helps to improve overall performance by applying processing to plug-ins only when audio signals are present on their respective inputs. Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed. Multiple dynamic I/Os

VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs. Their I/O configuration can dynamically adapt to the channel configuration they’re inserted in, meaning that any VST3 plug-in can be surround-capable with true multi-channel processing. For example, all the new VST3 plug-ins in Nuendo 4 can work in stereo-mode when inserted into a stereo channel, but switch to 6 channels when inserted into a 5.1 channel. Each audio channel is processed independently. Interaction between channels depends on the type and design of the plug-in. In addition to their flexible audio bussing capabilities, VST3 plug-ins may also offer a dedicated event bus. Typically, this is a MIDI input for control/modulation but these busses are no longer restricted to MIDI standard only. Future plug-ins may replace the common MIDI interface with alternative methods of control. Activating/deactivating busses

A typical issue with current virtual instruments is their audio output bussing system and how they’re connected to the mixer after loading. Especially virtual samplers with multiple outputs often occupy more mixer channels than need. The VST3 interface offers the possibility to deactivate unused busses after loading and even reactivate those when needed. This cleans up the mixer and further helps to reduce CPU load. Resizable edit windows

VST3 introduces a new approach to plug-in GUIs though window resizing, allowing for extremely flexible use of valuable screen space. Sample-accurate automation

VST3 also features vastly improved parameter automation with sample accuracy and support for ‘ramped’ automation data, allowing completely accurate and rapid parameter automation changes. Logical parameter organization

The plug-in parameters are displayed in a tree structure. Parameters are grouped into sections which represent the structure of the plug-in. Parameters like “Cutoff” and “Resonance” could be grouped into a section called “Filter”. This makes searching for a certain parameters easier, such as on an automation track. This also allows assigning a group of parameters to a specific MIDI Channel input and audio output bus. Optional VST3/SKI combination

As a direct result of the modular interface design of VST3, the Steinberg Kernel Interface (SKI) can be combined with VST3 plug-ins. SKI is an additional SDK that allows extremely close integration of a plug-in with a Steinberg host application, and allows functions to be carried out almost from within the application. This extends to the ability to create tracks, copy, cut, paste or process events in the Steinberg host application. SKI is provided to selected industry partners upon request. VSTXML for remote controllers

Remote controllers for audio and MIDI software applications have become increasingly popular. With VSTXML, VST3 offers far more flexible control of VST plug-ins by remote controllers. Using the knobs and faders on the control surface, parameters can be recorded, renamed and edited in many ways. Parameters that cannot be edited can be routed for display purposes to the control surface, for example to show Gain Reduction on compressor. UTF16 for localized parameter naming

In VST3, all strings that can be displayed to the user are in Unicode (UTF16) format. Usage of this universal character base allows the host application to display characters in localized languages. No MIDI restriction for parameter value transfers

VST3 has a dedicated interface for event handling that carries a much wider range of functionality than standard MIDI events would be able to provide. This opens up a big range of opportunities for musical use cases with very high potential for innovative product design. For example with VST3 some controller events (for example, pitch) can be referred to a note event (using a note unique ID). This offers the possibility to e.g. modulate only a single note which itself is part of a chord. Audio inputs for VST instruments

The VST3 interface expands VST instruments by adding the ability to create audio input busses. As a result, audio data can be routed to an VST3 instrument. A synthesizer which has a built-in e.g. vocoder effect is able to process audio data coming in from other sources as well. Multiple MIDI inputs/outputs

Unlike with VST 2.x,, a VST3 plug-in can have more than only one MIDI input or one MIDI output at the same time. 64-bit processing

VST3 plug-ins are generally able to process audio data in 64-bit.

Seem to me that are many more benefits with VST 3.0 then VST 2.4.  I perfectly understand why 3part manufactures sees support VST 2.4. Why should they, everyone has VST 3.0 support in their DAW.... already……………………………………………………………..........................except for SONAR.

Blogman


Auto-tune live from Antares is out now and is 64 bit and ONLY available as VST 3. Waves surround sound plugins are unusable without the VST3 versions. Waves Morphoder also needs VST3. Vienna Ensemble 5/MIR Pro needs VST 3 to utilize more than 16 channels per instance without inserting event inputs. Just because you all aren't using these high end plugins doesn't mean that it's not important to us PROFESSIONALS!!! We've been discussing VST3 importance for quite sometime now. Utterly disappointing that Cakewalk didn't look at the competition and 3rd party plug in companies and listen to the cries of the LONG LONG LONG LONG time customers. Epic Fail on Cake's part. Of course fixing Fastbouncing of timecode plugins in X1 d wasn't a high priority either. Apparantly, not enough people cared that they couldn't fastbounce alot of their plugins either (when polled that is).

firefly9000


alexoosthoek - I think the reason this unsettles people so much is because the same company that looked to the future and brought 64 bit processing way before the rest of the crowd, now seems to have lost that ability of foreshadowing things. A lot of people found that attractive about Cake (me included). There are plenty of behemoths (like ProT) that trudge along and sort of stumble into the future instead of being one up on it.

I do want to give props to Cake though for always working on optimizing the workflow. I saw the new X2 vid and there is a lot of cool stuff... But the VsT3 position that they take baffles me.

alexoosthoek


Cake can only do so much in , what,  1 1/2 year time? 
  
 
 
 
 

firefly9000

JClosed


 If you want all the new VST3 stuff actually getting to work in Sonar, the core engine of Sonar needs a complete rewrite (and possibly a big part of the interface also). This is not a task none in a few months I am afraid.

I am no programmer so I can't comment on that.... But IF what you say is true it would be kind of ironic because the Noel from Cakewalk posted earlier that there is very little difference between 2.4 and 3.
 
Still, not sure how wise it is to leave this out considering that the next version of Sonar (X3) isn't probably around the corner.

Noel indeed said there was very little difference between 2.4 and 3, but the (programming) venom is in the details. To make the few differences actually work in Sonar is not a job for the faint of hart. For instance - VST3 supports a per-note MIDI articulation (only supported by a few soft synths for now, but well). This means a complete rewrite of the MIDI sound engine part, the piano roll view and probably everything that has something to do with notation. Now - take the "new" side chaining people are talking about. This means a complete overhaul of all signal processing routes working in Sonar internally (and so probably a major rewrite of the ProChannel). This is not something that can be done in a spare Sunday afternoom. This is a LOT of work.

Sure some other platforms have done so already, but let's not forget Cakewalk has less staff than Steinberg etc. They have to make money tough, and have to produce something now en then to get enough money to keep things rolling. This means they have to make priority's, and VST3 is not a top priority at this very moment (but will be maybe at a later time).

That all said - I am convinced VST3 will come to Sonar, but -just as I said- not in the very short term..

stevee9c6


I would like to point out that I bought Waves Vocal Rider several weeks ago.  It works just fine in X1d 64. I use it on every mix.  Here is a link to the Waves page which clearly shows that it is supported by Sonar. http://www.wavesupport.net/Objects/Images/Product%20Info/Supported_Hosts_Charts/V9_pc.html 

SToons

stevee9c6


I would like to point out that I bought Waves Vocal Rider several weeks ago.  It works just fine in X1d 64. I use it on every mix.  Here is a link to the Waves page which clearly shows that it is supported by Sonar. http://www.wavesupport.net/Objects/Images/Product%20Info/Supported_Hosts_Charts/V9_pc.html 

I understand that "supported" in this case means it will load and can be automated -manually- (ie. using envelopes etc., not sidechaining). Are you suggesting you are succesfully using the Sidechain feature in Vocal Rider and using one audio track to control the Vocal Rider in an alternate track?
 
For example, the C6 compressor will function fine in Sonar HOWEVER the Sidechain function does not work. Can you absolutely confirm that the Sidechain function works in Sonar?

stevee9c6
Sidechaining is not supported in Sonar. You do not need to use sidechaining to use this plug.  It works very nicely on vocal tracks by simply inserting it and setting the parameters of gain change. The information posted in this thread indicated that it did not work in Sonar. It works just fine without sidechaining.