aglewis723
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Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
Hello Everyone,
I know there is another post regarding the theory of this, but if I wanted to record in 432Hz, how would I go about the "detuning" needed to achieve 432Hz in regards to softsynths?
Thanks,
Adam
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 18:50:35
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Some synths have a detune facility, but I truly think this is pointless..
Unless you are having to track new parts to a piece recorded to A=432, don't bother.
It is pointless. Audio (and the laws of physics) does not care about integers, or the names that we apply to it/them. It only cares about ratios, and they will stay the same, regardless of the starting point, or base level.
Different "tunings" or "intonations", where the ratios vary, are interesting. This current, strange internet phenomenon of A=whatever is a distraction, and meaningless.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
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aglewis723
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:03:21
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jb101
Some synths have a detune facility, but I truly think this is pointless..
Unless you are having to track new parts to a piece recorded to A=432, don't bother.
It is pointless. Audio (and the laws of physics) does not care about integers, or the names that we apply to it/them. It only cares about ratios, and they will stay the same, regardless of the starting point, or base level.
Different "tunings" or "intonations", where the ratios vary, are interesting. This current, strange internet phenomenon of A=whatever is a distraction, and meaningless.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Actually this is not true at all. There is a major difference in feel with the slight tuning change. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74JzBgm9Mz4
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scook
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:06:37
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There is no standard for tuning a softsyth. It is up to the programmer to implement the feature if it exists at all.
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aglewis723
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:09:35
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scook
There is no standard for tuning a softsyth. It is up to the programmer to implement the feature if it exists at all.
Isn't there a way to detune the final mixdown then?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:29:26
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Export your 44.1kHz file at 44.92kHz but don't tell anybody?
post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/07/16 10:22:52
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:33:38
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aglewis723
jb101
Some synths have a detune facility, but I truly think this is pointless..
Unless you are having to track new parts to a piece recorded to A=432, don't bother.
It is pointless. Audio (and the laws of physics) does not care about integers, or the names that we apply to it/them. It only cares about ratios, and they will stay the same, regardless of the starting point, or base level.
Different "tunings" or "intonations", where the ratios vary, are interesting. This current, strange internet phenomenon of A=whatever is a distraction, and meaningless.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Actually this is not true at all. There is a major difference in feel with the slight tuning change. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74JzBgm9Mz4
It is true. I would love it to not be true, but it is. It is a nice video, but who is to say that it's not the room resonances that produce the more pleasing tone? Or that particular guitar? There are so many reasons.. This is a dead horse. Flog it as you will.
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aglewis723
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:34:40
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jb101
aglewis723
jb101
Some synths have a detune facility, but I truly think this is pointless..
Unless you are having to track new parts to a piece recorded to A=432, don't bother.
It is pointless. Audio (and the laws of physics) does not care about integers, or the names that we apply to it/them. It only cares about ratios, and they will stay the same, regardless of the starting point, or base level.
Different "tunings" or "intonations", where the ratios vary, are interesting. This current, strange internet phenomenon of A=whatever is a distraction, and meaningless.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Actually this is not true at all. There is a major difference in feel with the slight tuning change. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74JzBgm9Mz4
It is true.
I would love it to not be true, but it is.
It is a nice video, but who is to say that it's not the room resonances that produce the more pleasing tone?
Or that particular guitar?
There are so many reasons..
This is a dead horse. Flog it as you will.
Dude, he was playing the same guitar in the same room.
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:34:59
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Oh god, if we're not careful, Mcq will start agreeing with me..
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 19:39:25
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aglewis723
jb101
aglewis723
jb101
Some synths have a detune facility, but I truly think this is pointless..
Unless you are having to track new parts to a piece recorded to A=432, don't bother.
It is pointless. Audio (and the laws of physics) does not care about integers, or the names that we apply to it/them. It only cares about ratios, and they will stay the same, regardless of the starting point, or base level.
Different "tunings" or "intonations", where the ratios vary, are interesting. This current, strange internet phenomenon of A=whatever is a distraction, and meaningless.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Actually this is not true at all. There is a major difference in feel with the slight tuning change. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74JzBgm9Mz4
It is true.
I would love it to not be true, but it is.
It is a nice video, but who is to say that it's not the room resonances that produce the more pleasing tone?
Or that particular guitar?
There are so many reasons..
This is a dead horse. Flog it as you will.
Dude, he was playing the same guitar in the same room.
I know.. And maybe the room's resonant frequency matched that of A=whatever. We can't all record in his room, on his guitar. Maybe my guitar sounds right in my dining room at A= 434. Maybe yours sounds good at A=666 in your toilet, dude. I think you are missing the point..
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2:43AM
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 20:54:56
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I "tuned" in and enjoyed this thread.
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Lanceindastudio
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 21:07:37
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Do yall know about the conspiracy theory behind all of this?
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chuckebaby
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/15 21:26:43
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there's also something about the high E and B strings and their out of intonation sound at this tuning that sound almost sloppy and ear fatiguing at times.
I do most of my stuff in 435 but it has a lot to do with my voice, I happen to find my voice can be manipulated to sound a little stronger in this range as im a baritone singer with a powerful mid range than I am a stronger upper singer.
some of this theory though I believe to be snake oil, just doesn't hold water.
overtones can be found at any tuning
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 04:06:55
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It's the Illuminati. :)
Bob Bone
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 04:11:35
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 07:19:36
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This is ridiculous. These theories are propositioned by people who must have a fundamental lack of understanding of the physics of sound.
The idea that tuning A to 435 would make your voice or instrument sound better is ridiculous. It's like a tenth of a tone, or something. How could your voice be better in that range, Charlie? I mean, really.. It's preposterous.
Utter bunkum..
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 07:53:48
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...and making the conclusions listening to a Youtube video :o) That is a medium/low quality MP3, isn't it??
You'd need a high quality .wav on a very good sound reproduction system to really judge it. I think I heard a difference on my tiny computer speakers. In my ears the 432 Hz sounded duller. But I'm sure I couldn't hear the difference without AB'ing seamlessly.
But hearing a difference isn't enough to go through all the trouble, IMO, you should also be convinced of that the other is actually better. What if it sounds more appealing to you with guitar, but not with vocals or flute? What if the difference is inaudible with another brand of strings? With soft synths I'm almost sure it's really useless snake oil.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 08:39:38
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jb101
This is ridiculous. These theories are propositioned by people who must have a fundamental lack of understanding of the physics of sound.
The idea that tuning A to 435 would make your voice or instrument sound better is ridiculous. It's like a tenth of a tone, or something. How could your voice be better in that range, Charlie? I mean, really.. It's preposterous.
Utter bunkum..
tuning to different pitches is the oldest trick in the book to find a singers sweet spot. if your not aware of this method, your missing something....a singer. and possibly living under a rock where there's no articles on pitch manipulation. this has been done on countless recordings from "Back in the saddle " by Aerosmith to "man in the box" by AIC. The Smashing Pumpkins, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Guns and Roses, Van Halen, Thin Lizzy. all of which at one time or another have tuned to A-435. so im guessing all these bands are have no clue what they're talking about ? but you do. so JB101, what you call a " tenth of a tone, or something "...(thanks for the laugh)....us musicians call a "half step". or Eb tuning. can be a significant change to increase a singers upper range. but as far as this 432 thing... like I said in my previous post... "snake oil".
post edited by chuckebaby - 2013/07/16 09:11:11
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 09:10:06
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Down-tuning a half-step is very common... and it's easy to deal with soft-synths or hardware synths.
I'm recording a vocal this week (Last Child - Aerosmith cover)... where the guitar/bass were tuned down a half-step.
In this case, it was their (guitar/bass) choice... not done because of the vocal.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 09:15:27
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Tuning guitars down is very common - certainly in most forms of metal.
I keep one guitar permanently tuned down to C
Even then though, the reference tone is still A = 440Hz yes?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 09:17:05
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@jb101
Utter Bunkem might just be my next band's name. BRILLIANT.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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chuckebaby
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 09:27:36
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like I said, im in 435 all the time.
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 09:34:32
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chuckebaby
jb101
This is ridiculous. These theories are propositioned by people who must have a fundamental lack of understanding of the physics of sound.
The idea that tuning A to 435 would make your voice or instrument sound better is ridiculous. It's like a tenth of a tone, or something. How could your voice be better in that range, Charlie? I mean, really.. It's preposterous.
Utter bunkum..
tuning to different pitches is the oldest trick in the book to find a singers sweet spot.
if your not aware of this method, your missing something....a singer.
and possibly living under a rock where there's no articles on pitch manipulation.
this has been done on countless recordings from "Back in the saddle " by Aerosmith to "man in the box" by AIC.
The Smashing Pumpkins, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Guns and Roses, Van Halen, Thin Lizzy.
all of which at one time or another have tuned to A-435.
so im guessing all these bands are have no clue what they're talking about ?
but you do.
so JB101, what you call a " tenth of a tone, or something "...(thanks for the laugh)....us musicians call a "half step".
or Eb tuning.
can be a significant change to increase a singers upper range.
but as far as this 432 thing... like I said in my previous post... "snake oil".
Where to start.. What we Europeans call a semitone, Americans call a half step, no problem there. Reference pitch A = 440 Htz. Therefore G# = 415.3Htz, and A# = 466.16Htz. So, tuning your reference pitch to A = 435 is approximately a tenth of a tone (or tenth of a full step), not a half step. Tuning down a semitone ( half step) gives a reference pitch of 415.3, not 435, i.e. you are tuning your guitar to e flat. Those bands understood that. You did not, obviously. Geez..
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 09:43:50
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robert_e_bone
@jb101 Utter Bunkem might just be my next band's name. BRILLIANT. Bob Bone
:-)
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bitflipper
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 10:16:15
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I once recorded a vocal at 432, but Melodyne fixed it.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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aglewis723
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 10:16:24
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Well it looks like this post turned into a big laugh, but seriously listen to the side-by-side in this video. There is a difference in FEEL, which every musician should think about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74JzBgm9Mz4
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jb101
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 10:26:36
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chuckebaby
tuning to different pitches is the oldest trick in the book to find a singers sweet spot.
if your not aware of this method, your missing something....a singer.
and possibly living under a rock where there's no articles on pitch manipulation.
so JB101, what you call a " tenth of a tone, or something "...(thanks for the laugh)....us musicians call a "half step".
or Eb tuning.
can be a significant change to increase a singers upper range.
but as far as this 432 thing... like I said in my previous post... "snake oil".
I have read many articles about tuning systems/ temperament (or pitch manipulation, as you wrongly call it), in fact a sizable part of my thesis was on this subject. "We musicians" call tuning down a semitone (or half step) tuning to E flat (77.78Htz) on a guitar, so A= G# (415.3). "We musicians" also understand that you have not changed the reference pitch, but when you play an "E Shape" chord on your guitar in the first position, the resulting chord is actually E flat, and so on. If you truly are an Assistant Engineer, as your profile claims, you need to ask someone at the studio you work for to explain about pitches. Perhaps they have a chart showing the notes and their relevant frequencies. Until you understand these, then EQing, amongst other things, will be very hit and miss, not to mention the fact that you'll be out of tune with everybody else.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 10:31:26
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You should pick an example where 432 version doesn't sound so horrible if you plan on trying to convince any one that it sounds better. The guitar isn't intonated for the 432 tuning and that's why the chords sound so sour and out of place. It just sort of sucks and it's different. Why not provide an example with a synth or piano where both examples are actually tuned to something like an even tempered scale. The guy that prepared that video sample on a fretted instrument doesn't know how fretted instruments work... so you probably shouldn't assume he can teach you much about sound. If you go to the trouble of preparing a comparison of properly tuned instruments voiced to 2 different A references then you'll have something to appreciate and it will be easier to enjoy the idea that a different A tuning reference may suit some material nicely. best regards, mike aglewis723
Well it looks like this post turned into a big laugh, but seriously listen to the side-by-side in this video. There is a difference in FEEL, which every musician should think about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74JzBgm9Mz4
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konradh
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 10:42:35
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Most of the soft synths I use have master tuning options.
At one time, I thought European musicians and symphonies tuned to a different standard (and lower frequency) than A-440 but perhaps electronics have encouraged standardization.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Tuning A to 432Hz rather than the default 440Hz
2013/07/16 11:04:33
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bitflipper
I once recorded a vocal at 432, but Melodyne fixed it.
Hey... Hey! (in my best Joe Pesci voice) 
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