denverdrummer
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/23 12:57:56
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LRR, I get where you're coming from. What you seem to be missing is that the price of the program is the price of the program. You get a bit of a price brake if you pay up front, but other than that, you have to pay for the price of the license. If you want to sell them on Pro or Platinum, great, but you should tell them that's what it's going to cost. This is from the FAQ:
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them.
So if I'm reading this right, if they miss a month they can resume later and pick back up where they were. And they can still open projects in demo mode, they just can't save or make changes, until they resume payments. From the responses you've gotten from the bakers, I think they are trying to provide alternatives, but you seem to just want a free program for your client, or one that is 100% functional if they pay or not. That's not fair to those paying the full price up front, or making timely payments. The bottom line here is you want something that is not offered, and won't be offered. There have been suggestions for alternatives. But the fact is no other DAW offers this choice.
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Beepster
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/23 14:17:09
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/01/23 19:35:44
Living Room Rocker
Hey, Beep and Randy, within your own post I hope you see just how I felt when I made my initial post (which still has not been addressed as posted). Nonetheless, Beep, I do appreciate our discussion and, in particularly, that you had my back. That was really swell of you. I apologies for this late response, but I really had to get back to work and I rarely spend much time on forums as it is. Just as you did, I hope others consider who the person is when responding and singling she/he out (rather than "ganging up").
So I hope addressed everyone even if I have not replied personally to each one here.
Kind regards,
Living Room Rocker
Well I appreciate your follow up. I do still think you are creating some very unique and odd scenarios that really wouldn't affect most users and were not better served by the old model. In fact the scenarios you present would be much more workable under the new model but the user would have to be VERY cautious to keep up on their payments. That's unfortunately just the reality of any "leasing, rent to own, credit, etc" type plans. It gives people the opportunity to have access to stuff they normally wouldn't but it does come with responsibility and a certain level of risk. As far as poor musicians... well hey, man. You are talking to probably the most destitute person on the forum. I don't expect Cake to lower their prices just to appease me (although during the X2 fiasco I was really mad because I was left with a REALLY messed up product and just wanted something that worked). I can't afford many things (even food... seriously) but I can't expect a private business to treat me any differntly than others or give me something for nothing. That's just the reality of poverty. Fact is I have a better excuse than most for being broke. I lost my money making careers (my day job(s) AND my live performing gigs) due to excruciating and debilitating disability. Before that I work my nuts off to support my music and bought what I could and accepted that there were just some things I couldn't afford. If I REALLY wanted it I saved up and/or worked harder and/or found other solutions. For your starving artist friends I see no reason why they need to put themselves at risk if they can't afford to pay upfront or be certatin they don't miss payments. Now I'm going to do something that I NEVER do on here and mention another product. Tell them to download and install the Reaper demo and/or fork over the $70 for a full license. It is fully functional, works very well even on crappy systems and would allow them to do all their tracking and even do a ton of basic mixing tasks so they can give you, their producer, an idea of what they want. So they get their tracks down, export the raw, uneffected waves for you to work with and create their own mix to show you what they want using the plenty useable onboard tools. Is it as good as Sonar? Well that depends on your perspective but I don't think so and it certainly isn't as cool or have as much cool stuff included BUT beggars can be choosers and if they truly are starving artists with the starving artist bellyfire then they need to be flexible and work with what is available. You as producer should have absolutely no problems exporting their tracks into Sonar and fancying it all up for them. No OMF of stems or any other weird crap necessary. As someone who has managed to scrimp and scream and claw and grunt my way into having a workable modern rig despite all the massive obstacles I've faced over the past five years or so I completely reject the premise that reasonably healthy and motivated artists can't make a good hearty go of things with all the low cost tools available. Sonar itself is low cost and more accessible than before with this new model so again I say they have NT mae things worse of more difficult. They have provided extra options for those who want them. If people cannot accept or don't think they'll be able to fulfill the terms outlined by the new model then they should not participate until they are in a position to do so. That is not meant as an attack or to be demeaning/dismissive. It is meant as a motivator. Git 'er done! Cheers.
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jackson white
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/23 19:31:35
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denverdrummer
Sonar Artist is $99 bucks or $10 bucks a month. And that's enough for someone to lay down tracks. If you're a professional musician starving or not, if you can't afford that much to support your career, you might want to consider a different line of work.
This forum can be pretty funny at times. CW may want to consider making some of these responses stickies to improve the productivity of the forum hosts. Is "irate forum troll" a line of work? Or perhaps it was "professional" that weeds them out.
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Splat 
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/23 20:00:00
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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BJN
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/23 20:01:21
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As the understanding is beginning to unfold it seems fairly simple. You upgrade as you have always done and it is as it has always been albeit a membership program that could potentially become a buying feature for new users.
I think the installment option will be win even more users for CW who once own it after 12 months are likely to pay in full for their upgrade. otherwise it would fell like a subscription.
------------------------------------------------------- Magic: when you feel inspired to create which in turn inspires more creation. And the corollary: if magic happens inspiration might flog it to death with numerous retakes. Bart Nettle
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mudgel
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/23 22:17:07
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I wonder how long it will be before we get threads like:
My sonar doesn't work anymore.
Much dialog back and forth to find out why
Then.........
You know you have to keep making your monthly payments
I didn't know that Sonar wouldn't work anymore if I stopped paying.
Guess it will take a few months. Sorry just trying to make light.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 00:47:06
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denverdrummer
...What you seem to be missing is that the price of the program is the price of the program. You get a bit of a price brake if you pay up front, but other than that, you have to pay for the price of the license. If you want to sell them on Pro or Platinum, great, but you should tell them that's what it's going to cost. But consider this, if they can't pay for the rest of the payments after say six months they then lose the functionality and have nothing left after their investment. That idea in itself is a big discouragement for them to even consider buying. Now, Cakewalk has been a great company with customer relations and such. I see the consolation idea fits well with the companies history with their customers. denverdrummer
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them. denverdrummer
So if I'm reading this right, if they miss a month they can resume later and pick back up where they were. And they can still open projects in demo mode, they just can't save or make changes, until they resume payments.
From the responses you've gotten from the bakers, I think they are trying to provide alternatives, but you seem to just want a free program for your client, or one that is 100% functional if they pay or not. That's not fair to those paying the full price up front, or making timely payments
The bottom line here is you want something that is not offered, and won't be offered. There have been suggestions for alternatives. But the fact is no other DAW offers this choice. Your statement "...just want a free program...or one that is 100% functional if they pay or not..." is not accurate. What I am talking about is the incentive to the new customer. Something that negates the gamble/risk. Also, they will never own SONAR unless they complete a full 12 month (uninterrupted) period. Cakewalk has a reputation of listening to its customers (expect for the notation request). There is the possibility that CW would consider this. But the fact is Cakewalk offers what no other DAW offers. Beepster
Well I appreciate your follow up. I do still think you are creating some very unique and odd scenarios that really wouldn't affect most users and were not better served by the old model... But it would also benefit many other potential users and Cakewalk with more new customers, which many here are not considering. Beepster
...Now I'm going to do something that I NEVER do on here and mention another product. Tell them to download and install the Peaper demo and/or fork over the $70 for a full license. I respect the Bakers enough to avoid the same, which I did. This is what they are working with currently, hence the need to transfer tracks and such when sharing instead of just sharing SONAR projects. But you can obviously see with your suggestion that Cakewalk is not gaining a new customer or gaining any profit. Like I said before, I have won some of my clients over to SONAR and so far so good (expect for the existing bugs). I believe in Cakewalk, but have grown a little wary as I mentioned to you in our other conversation along these lines regarding the monthly bug fixes. So, I trust you can see things in a broader perspective. I don't expect anything free for me or my clients. I am hoping that Cakewalk would consider an alternative for those new and potential customers whom may not maintain the monthly payments mid year. I was just offering ideas as they came to me. And yes, I can afford the full cost of SONAR and agree that Cakewalk has been generous in offering such a great upgrade cost all these years. As I have made my regular purchase of the new version of SONAR, I did not complain about the increase of price which I also find reasonable. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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Anderton
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 03:35:50
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Living Room Rocker But consider this, if they can't pay for the rest of the payments after say six months they then lose the functionality and have nothing left after their investment. They were not making an investment. They were committing to pay for the cost of the software over 12 months. In return, they were able to use the software from Day 1 of ownership instead of having to save up for 12 months and then buy it. If you don't pay the full cost of a product, that product is not yours. It is not correct to say they have "nothing left." They have the projects they created during six months of using the software, which apparently they could not have afforded otherwise. It is not Cakewalk's responsibility to predict the future of a customer's finances. That obligation rests on the customer. If the customer is not comfortable committing to pay for the software over 12 months, they should save and buy it up front.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 16:42:28
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Anderton
Living Room Rocker
But consider this, if they can't pay for the rest of the payments after say six months they then lose the functionality and have nothing left after their investment.
They were not making an investment. They were committing to pay for the cost of the software over 12 months. In return, they were able to use the software from Day 1 of ownership instead of having to save up for 12 months and then buy it. If you don't pay the full cost of a product, that product is not yours. It is not correct to say they have "nothing left." They have the projects they created during six months of using the software, which apparently they could not have afforded otherwise. It is not Cakewalk's responsibility to predict the future of a customer's finances. That obligation rests on the customer. If the customer is not comfortable committing to pay for the software over 12 months, they should save and buy it up front.Hi Craig, With all due respect, please let me respond. There have been a few words used to describe the new membership payment plan. It all seems like semantics. But by describing the plan as an investment by a new customer (that is, putting money forth in the hope or intention of gaining a greater value), then it is suitable in this instance just as "loan" was used as well. Thereby, what I am trying to stress is that such a new customer is putting money toward the ownership of a product. I am confident we all agree on that. In the scenario I have described, some new customers may not make 12 consecutive payments. However, since they may have spent money within, say six months of payments, that money would be lost. So, there is nothing to be said in consolation for what would amount in over $50 for just Artist? Surely it could be considered as some kind of "credit" at the end of 12 months from the date of the initial payment should no other payments be made. Which is my effort here... for Cakewalk to consider. I am sure my clients are not the only potential customers for Cakewalk to gain with offering some kind of reasonable incentive for time paid. As you say, they have their projects. However, the content in said project is already owned by the performer (author, etc.). Whether recorded or not, that remains true. So, the project itself is of little to no value without the content. Therefore, in context, I am referring to a product, not a production. Is what I am proposing so unreasonable or, perhaps, impossible for Cakewalk and Gibson to consider? Is it too out of this world? What's with all the hostility from others? I am not attempting to cheat Cakewalk or Gibson. And any reasonable means (like my suggestion) to reinforce customer relations can be of great benefit for either company. I am merely making a reasonable case. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:04:10
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I think a lot of people are reading FAR too much into the possibilities & ramifications of the monthly payment system.
All Cakewalk are doing - in my simplistic view of the universe - is offering users & potential users a way to pay monthly if they cannot afford to pay the full price up front.
Is that so hard to understand?
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Karyn
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:05:52
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@LRR
What you're basically suggesting is incremental purchase, where the more you pay the more you get to keep if you stop paying.
So what about the folk that choose Artist and then stop paying after 6 months? Does it downgrade to HomeStudio?
This is NOT subscription, you pay up front, or you pay in instalments. If you choose instalments and don't keep them up, it's taken away. It's simple, it's clear.
This thread is just going around in circles and degrading each time around, it's getting close to being locked.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:11:13
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However, since they may have spent money within, say six months of payments, that money would be lost. I think you are wrong here. The way I read the FAQ if they pay for 6 months they are credited for 6 months of payments. They could resume their payments and they don't start over at ground zero, they just need 6 more months of payments, and the product is theirs. Can anyone from Cakewalk confirm my interpretation of this? If in the case they make payments for 6 months and never chose to renew, the payments are not lost, they counted for the time of operational use that they used the product and this is right in line with what everyone else with monthly membership offers. The difference between what CW is doing and someone like Adobe, is with Adobe, you have to pay forever, for use of the product. With CW, after 12 payments you can quit, and the product is yours. The more overall point here is that CW has the right to sell the product for what they deem a marketable price. You as the consumer have the right to chose if that is reasonable or not. If you look at this objectively, CW is very fair here, if you just take the up-font price, this is really not that different from the X3 upgrade, they are just offering another option, which I think is a great move. As you say, they have their projects. However, the content in said project is already owned by the performer (author, etc.). Whether recorded or not, that remains true. So, the project itself is of little to no value without the content. Therefore, in context, I am referring to a product, not a production. This is arguing semantics. If they exported the project to wav, then they have everything they need. In a project format they are calling access to the plugins and settings within Sonar, so yes they have to own the program and any of the plugins they are using. Again, it would be nice to know where you are going with this, because we are running around in circles. Bottom line CW could have not offered membership in which case everyone would have to pay up front for access. They are offering an option which actually costs more than a straight upgrade, but may be easier on people's budget.
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Ham N Egz
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:17:33
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denverdrummer
[
Again, it would be nice to know where you are going with this, because we are running around in circles.
After reading all his arguments, you really have to ask??
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:18:17
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Paul P
Let's love our fellow humans, no matter what they do...
No! Let's NOT! 7+ billion on the planet. I don't gots time to love more that a couple dozen. And some should leave behind this mortal coil ASAP.
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Karyn
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:19:27
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denverdrummer
However, since they may have spent money within, say six months of payments, that money would be lost.
I think you are wrong here. The way I read the FAQ if they pay for 6 months they are credited for 6 months of payments. They could resume their payments and they don't start over at ground zero, they just need 6 more months of payments, and the product is theirs. Can anyone from Cakewalk confirm my interpretation of this?
Cakewalk have made it quite clear that 12 consecutive payments are required to keep the software. It's no different to defaulting on any other credit agreement, which is effectively what it is. If you agree to make 12 payments and you default, you loose to software. If you then get back in by starting to pay again, you get the software back but you're buying in from a new starting point. Your 12 payment count is reset.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:32:17
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OK this part of the FAQ needs to be clarified by CW:
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them.
I could not find anything in the FAQ that stated how resumed payments were handled.
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Godling
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:47:33
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denverdrummer
OK this part of the FAQ needs to be clarified by CW:
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them.
I could not find anything in the FAQ that stated how resumed payments were handled.
The first sentence states how resumed payments are handled... that is to say... 'they are not'! 12 payments must be 'consecutive'. If you skip a month you fail to make them 'consecutive'. Very clear. However... the use of 'resume' is somewhat misleading. It implies starting from where one left off. Perhaps 'renew' would be more appropriate?
post edited by Godling - 2015/01/26 17:59:37
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Anderton
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 17:55:20
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Living Room Rocker
In the scenario I have described, some new customers may not make 12 consecutive payments. However, since they may have spent money within, say six months of payments, that money would be lost. So, there is nothing to be said in consolation for what would amount in over $50 for just Artist?...As you say, they have their projects. However, the content in said project is already owned by the performer (author, etc.). Whether recorded or not, that remains true. So, the project itself is of little to no value without the content. Therefore, in context, I am referring to a product, not a production. What the performer owns is IP, not the tools required to create it. But remember those tools have IP of their own, and it's owned by Cakewalk. The consolation is the performer would have been able to tap Cakewalk's IP for six months to create music they may not have been able to afford otherwise. During those six months, if they didn't create music and mix it down to a stereo or surround mix they can exploit, again, that's not Cakewalk's problem. Surely it could be considered as some kind of "credit" at the end of 12 months from the date of the initial payment should no other payments be made.
Is what I am proposing so unreasonable or, perhaps, impossible for Cakewalk and Gibson to consider? Is it too out of this world?
It would create an overlay of complication for a membership program that is supposed to be straightforward. What if they come back in 2018 and say "Well I paid for three months in 2015..." What if they stop after one month - why didn't they just download the demo? What if someone pays for two months, then gets re-instated for another two months, then drops out...how many "drops" do you allow? An unlimited amount? A limited amount? And it opens up plenty of ways to game the system. Someone could buy for a month, drop out for two, then buy for a month and get the software that he missed - unless Cakewalk modified the installation so that people didn't get what was given to members during the months they didn't pay but got updates for a single month. Basically there would have to a zillion custom installations generated by Cakewalk to cover a zillion different scenarios. It would be a technical, logistical, and accounting nightmare for a small company that wants to simplify the process, not make it more complicated - and the people who didn't game the system would be penalized by the higher prices Cakewalk would have to charge to cover all the additional effort and overhead. Bottom line is the membership program is not designed for incremental payments or a la carte program updates.
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Sir Les
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 18:14:58
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BassDaddy
Living Room Rocker
P.S. On another note, I am disappointed in my fellow members on this forum. These attacks on me are unwarranted and should be individually addressed by the monitors, as expected. Okay, I got that off my chest.
Living Room Rocker, I sure hope my talking about Knuckleheads wasn't taken as talking about you. I have no problem at all when a member in good standing is trying to work some things out or get some questions answered. Truthfully I kind of tune the whole discussion out cuz I didn't have any answers and it seemed like you a few others were able to handle it. I always considered you one of the good guys and still do. My whole issue in this thread was people who have not been here before , coming in asking a few odd questions and not even waiting around to get an answer. I'm sure you will get your concern answered. If I could add anything to help, I would be glad to do that. Should not call people names to belittle them further...it hurts the spirit of peace...and insights much ponderings to cause us to assume that is intended for all whom have issues with...Money...., and reflect on in shame....surely some as another poster said...we buy to help others have the means to make their dreams recorded for free...because they cannot afford a cup of soup...let alone a pad to have rest in....Yah...so when names are carelessly thrown around forum town...about cost, and complaints...we all have a cross to say,,,keep it in peace, luv, and respect of all...giving aid to whom we can, for the greater good to prevail over our selves, and our neighbours....otherwise it instigates perceptions of who those names insult....and they will not be silenced until sorry is put forth...be good, with great respect, no matter what...and the glory stays in peace!...so does the forum!
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denverdrummer
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 18:23:22
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Godling
denverdrummer
OK this part of the FAQ needs to be clarified by CW:
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them.
I could not find anything in the FAQ that stated how resumed payments were handled.
The first sentence states how resumed payments are handled... that is to say... 'they are not'! 12 payments must be 'consecutive'. If you skip a month you fail to make them 'consecutive'. Very clear.
However... the use of 'resume' is somewhat misleading. It implies starting from where one left off. Perhaps 'renew' would be more appropriate?
Agreed, I was confused by "resume" which I seemed to read as you were credited for what your paid. CW might want to consider revising the FAQ for clarity. As for LRR's point, my previous statement holds that the 6 months paid is not lost, because it was used to have full access to the program, which is no different to how Adobe handles their subscription service, which we use for Photoshop as my daughter is really into Photography and digital art. As I said the big difference is I will never own anything through Adobe on the subscription service, I'd have to shell out the 5 or 6 hundred bucks for the full version.
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tecknot
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/26 22:12:50
(permalink)
denverdrummer
Godling
denverdrummer
OK this part of the FAQ needs to be clarified by CW:
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them.
I could not find anything in the FAQ that stated how resumed payments were handled.
The first sentence states how resumed payments are handled... that is to say... 'they are not'! 12 payments must be 'consecutive'. If you skip a month you fail to make them 'consecutive'. Very clear.
However... the use of 'resume' is somewhat misleading. It implies starting from where one left off. Perhaps 'renew' would be more appropriate?
Agreed, I was confused by "resume" which I seemed to read as you were credited for what your paid. CW might want to consider revising the FAQ for clarity. That's a good one. But don't expect CW to consider your suggestion, they are obviously not going to alter it. Oh the irony. Ooops, Karyn just might lock this thread after all.
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bitSync
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 08:36:38
(permalink)
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them.
Perhaps " restart" vs. " resume" would be a helpful FAQ clarification that the foregoing payments, if interrupted, will have lost their cumulative value towards the cost of the software license. I agree that the word "resume" is a bit confusing. In this scenario, the user is indeed resuming payments but he/she is not resuming the membership agreement as it was at the point of payment interruption. How about something like this -
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for the full consecutive 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode upon the first missed payment. This means you won't be able to save or export projects; however, anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you restart payments, you can make new edits and save them, but you will have forfeited the progress of your credit/membership agreement and will have to restart your 12 month payment obligation toward permanent license activation.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 10:36:07
(permalink)
Anderton
Actually, a lot of the "knuckleheads" is just one person (currently going by "Andrasin"), who's possibly a child based his level of spelling and reading comprehension. He thinks he's clever to have figured out that he can re-register after being banned and continue making defamatory statements. His MO is to claim how horrible SONAR is, but he won't ask for help, and won't verbalize his problem in any way that would allow people to help him enjoy the same level of performance as others. His other MO is to claim the membership program is a huge screw job on Cakewalk customers created by evil people who want to extract every last penny from you and that we're idiots for not realizing that. I think we should take up a collection and buy him another DAW so he can continue being an idiot in some other forum.
I figured as much. Maybe people like this can be banned by IP address in addition to forum account. As far as taking up a collection goes, I don't think it will do much good. For some reason trolling has entertainment value for certain people. Responding to them only serves to feed their entertainment. This is kind of like watching someone getting hit in the face by a pie. For the most part I tried to stay away from threads of that nature but i found it was like watching a bad car accident. I could not stop looking.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 13:01:16
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Marcus, I think the guy in question had his own domain and thus could spoof IP's so they couldn't ban him that way. From what I've seen that kind of thing has thinned out. Right at the announcement, you got alot of people who either had no investment in CW, or were fairly new, that over reacted to membership, or just flat out put out false information about it, and that has slowed down now that the release is official.
Unfortunately there are always going to be internet trolls. I take the car accident approach too, it's like I can't resist watching TMZ when it comes on. We all do stupid things now and then, but I believe laughter is the best solution,so when people come on here and post idiotic stuff like CW is going to steal their intellectual property or something, the best thing to do is get a good laugh out of it and move on.
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Ham N Egz
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 13:21:48
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I like the idea that the Warez crowd are now pissed because they cannot obtain a SN and reg code off the web for free anymore.. thus the trolling ..
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 13:46:10
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Anderton
Living Room Rocker
...Surely it could be considered as some kind of "credit" at the end of 12 months from the date of the initial payment should no other payments be made.
Is what I am proposing so unreasonable or, perhaps, impossible for Cakewalk and Gibson to consider? Is it too out of this world?
It would create an overlay of complication for a membership program that is supposed to be straightforward. What if they come back in 2018 and say "Well I paid for three months in 2015..." What if they stop after one month - why didn't they just download the demo? What if someone pays for two months, then gets re-instated for another two months, then drops out...how many "drops" do you allow? An unlimited amount? A limited amount?
And it opens up plenty of ways to game the system. Someone could buy for a month, drop out for two, then buy for a month and get the software that he missed - unless Cakewalk modified the installation so that people didn't get what was given to members during the months they didn't pay but got updates for a single month. Basically there would have to a zillion custom installations generated by Cakewalk to cover a zillion different scenarios. It would be a technical, logistical, and accounting nightmare for a small company that wants to simplify the process, not make it more complicated - and the people who didn't game the system would be penalized by the higher prices Cakewalk would have to charge to cover all the additional effort and overhead.
Bottom line is the membership program is not designed for incremental payments or a la carte program updates.
At the risk of Karyn locking this thread... Yeah, I can understand the complication introduced on CW's membership program. Considering that there are pirates ready to tear into any likely weak spot in a companies internet security. And perhaps CW's answer to that is the membership program. So that "overlay" does sound like a bad idea after all. I can see that effect else where. After all, IK multimedia and Universal Audio, to name just a couple, are bursting at the seems with their "credit plan." Won't be long until they are reduced to nothing but a memory from all the "gaming the system". Not to mention all those zillion of custom installations. There again more than a zillion users would be entering into the membership plan at all different dates along the calendar. To simplify that potential problem, all users and CW can agree on the one day each year to begin a new membership. How about January 21 each year? Anderton
Bottom line is the membership program is not designed for incremental payments or a la carte program updates. And that's the most confusing part. A loan is paid in incremental payments like a monthly payment plan toward ownership. A la carte program updates, let's not go there. Why would any one want that? That's like out of nowhere. Well, we covered the bases. Whew! Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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Karyn
Ma-Ma
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 14:03:17
(permalink)
denverdrummer
that over reacted to membership, or just flat out put out false information about it,
That is the issue we were trying to quash, false information. Many, if not most, of the over-reactions were due to the false information. Can we consider this thread done and finished with now before any further false information is inadvertently spread around the internet?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 14:10:04
(permalink)
Marcus Curtis
Anderton
Actually, a lot of the "knuckleheads" is just one person (currently going by "Andrasin"), who's possibly a child based his level of spelling and reading comprehension. He thinks he's clever to have figured out that he can re-register after being banned and continue making defamatory statements. His MO is to claim how horrible SONAR is, but he won't ask for help, and won't verbalize his problem in any way that would allow people to help him enjoy the same level of performance as others. His other MO is to claim the membership program is a huge screw job on Cakewalk customers created by evil people who want to extract every last penny from you and that we're idiots for not realizing that. I think we should take up a collection and buy him another DAW so he can continue being an idiot in some other forum.
I figured as much. Maybe people like this can be banned by IP address in addition to forum account. As far as taking up a collection goes, I don't think it will do much good. For some reason trolling has entertainment value for certain people. Responding to them only serves to feed their entertainment. This is kind of like watching someone getting hit in the face by a pie.
For the most part I tried to stay away from threads of that nature but i found it was like watching a bad car accident. I could not stop looking.
Sounds like your average GS poster
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Ham N Egz
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 14:38:35
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Karyn
denverdrummer
that over reacted to membership, or just flat out put out false information about it,
That is the issue we were trying to quash, false information. Many, if not most, of the over-reactions were due to the false information.
Can we consider this thread done and finished with now before any further false information is inadvertently spread around the internet?
Lock it already the horse has been dead, long ago
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Anderton
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Re: Two Posts And A Mug Full of Hater-aid
2015/01/27 14:48:05
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Living Room Rocker
Anderton
Bottom line is the membership program is not designed for incremental payments or a la carte program updates.
And that's the most confusing part. A loan is paid in incremental payments like a monthly payment plan toward ownership. A la carte program updates, let's not go there. Why would any one want that? That's like out of nowhere.
Before the thread gets locked...technically Cakewalk does do incremental payments, but they're consecutive and last for a defined period of time. This is very different from treating each payment as a separate entity rather than as part of a continuum. The a la carte concept was mentioned because some people would like a stripped, core program that they can accessorize, which Cakewalk has already said will not happen for a variety of reasons. Having a situation where people pay for one update, skip a month, decide they like the next two updates and pay for them, etc. is very similar so I assume Cakewalk's response would be the same. Just FYI, updates are priced on the assumption that not everything WILL be useful to everyone. For example, with X3, even if you already had Addictive Drums the other updates/additions would justify the price for most people.
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