If you install the complete waves pack it loses lots of my other plugins saying I have to reduce the number of plug ins as sonar can't handle it

Primary DAW has traditionally been Sonar for the last 10 years but moving over to Ableton as  have these problems with Sonar

• No VST3 support - Can't handle all my plug ins
• Notation is still broken
• Latency issues are still very much present even with core supplied plug ins
• Audiosnap 2 I find it a horrible to work with the time stretching algorithm is terrible as is BPM detection on clips which makes remixing very hard work
• Audio Engine frequent drop outs and regular crashes

I really like the lay out and skylight but some of the above are very hard work to deal with on a regular basis

PTheory


Primary DAW has traditionally been Sonar for the last 10 years but moving over to Ableton as  have these problems with Sonar

• No VST3 support - Can't handle all my plug ins
• Notation is still broken
• Latency issues are still very much present even with core supplied plug ins
• Audiosnap 2 I find it a horrible to work with the time stretching algorithm is terrible as is BPM detection on clips which makes remixing very hard work
• Audio Engine frequent drop outs and regular crashes

I really like the lay out and skylight but some of the above are very hard work to deal with on a regular basis

I'm a little confused.  You're using Ableton because of these issues?
 
 -   Ableton doesn't support Vst3
 -   Ableton doesn't have notation
 -   Not sure what your latency issues are, but many people seem to get Sonar to work with low latency, so think this could be improved on for you.
 -   I think this may be user error
 -   Again, I'm not experiencing this, nor are many others.  This should not be happening if Sonar is set up properly.

I don't think you are an experienced user at all PTheory. You are simply spreading misinformation.

e.g.- Ableton has no plans for VST3, it is not "just around the corner"

Ableton and Sonar are two very different beasts. i acknowledge there are things that Ableton does better than Sonar, but it's a very limited list applicable to very socialized production styles and live performance.

I own both programs but don't use Ableton anymore. There are many problems with Ableton that you will never hear about until you use it- like you can only pull in VSTs from one folder for instance. And the PDC is famously rubbish in that program compared to other DAWs. And it is still 32 bit. And there is no real comping system. And the metering is rubbish. And on and on and on- there are 500 things that are not so great... and I personally wouldn't even call it gapless either- dragging in certain VSTs creates a moments silence as it does in Sonar.

8?

Eight?

Try having a look at the Member List and sort on location

elsongs

Bristol_Jonesey


8?

Eight?

Try having a look at the Member List and sort on location

Okay, I was being a bit sardonic, but let's face it: In Europe, Sonar just isn't a major DAW program. More people in Europe use freaking *Fruity Loops* than Sonar. Even Cakewalk knows that. In North America, at least they take Sonar more seriously.

I don't know about North America, I think you must be from Cloud Cuckoo land.
 
As someone who lives in Europe I can promise you that this is rubbish.

PTheory


If you install the complete waves pack it loses lots of my other plugins saying I have to reduce the number of plug ins as sonar can't handle it

I've got over 1000 plugs on my test machine including Waves Mercury 9. Sonar sees them all without a problem. The key PT, is to create a custom plug list using plugin manager. It's time consuming, but soo worth while. Once you save it and back it up, if you ever have a serious crash and reinstall your plugs, you can just drop the plug menu in and it will automatically work.
 
-Danny

grumbleweed4162

elsongs


I don't think this matters to Cakewalk one bit. SoS is a British publication, and no one (okay, maybe there's like 8 of you) in Europe uses Sonar anyway, so they're like, "Meh." Nearly all of Cakewalk's customer base is in US/Canada. Now if Keyboard or Computer Music gives X2 a bad review, Cakewalk will definitely listen.

Computer Music is a "British" publication.
 
Grum.

What's that matter? There's only eight of us.

elsongs

Okay, I was being a bit sardonic, but let's face it: In Europe, Sonar just isn't a major DAW program. More people in Europe use freaking *Fruity Loops* than Sonar. Even Cakewalk knows that. In North America, at least they take Sonar more seriously.

LOL, I actually find this statement a touch offensive dood! Really!

Man, I must be bored or something... I read this entire thread and then dug up an Ableton Live disk that came with my M-Audio Keystation. I remembered it crashed itself and was subsequently uninstalled, but it loaded this time. From an IT perspective, user interface is paramount... Ableton Live (6.011) could see my Ozone, but was not intuitive even how to change it from the default "GS Wavetable Synth." As far as interface... it is not appealing or intuitive (to me).

Granted, this is an older, promo version; but from a customer standpoint my reaction was simply, "Why would I pay money to upgrade this?" To put this in perspective, Guitar Rig 4 LE was also an older promo, but adequate and had a good user interface IMO, so I upgraded to GR5. I can barely believe Ableton Live made a "quantum leap" into version 9.

As with any program, SONAR has to deal with ALL computer configurations that exist based on the "minimum requirements," so some tweaking/learning is required.

As you well know Colin, (Cos I'm really you) there is only on user in Europe and that's me. All others that post here are just me using multiple accounts, or that's what the voices told me.

Agree with all your points but there is no telling some people who simply won't listen.  


Market dynamics, reviews and user numbers are what really matters and Ableton absolutely canes Sonar in all three.  However I do prefer Sonar for mixing (apart from plug in and drop out problems) and picking up after the creation element of the project ends.  As a creation engine Ableton has Sonar absolutely licked as confirmed by the market place.

Swiller


@elsongs .. Another UK resident here and user. Id say geography has nothing to do with choice of Daw.  Roland is also a UK based company.  Americans cant make proper music anyway , apart from stuff that sounds like it was made on a farm by jock ewing on a steel string washboard. I think its called country and western or sum nonsense. I think we pioneered it over here with the shadows in the 60s, but they were rubbish.

Anyway, OP is right. Audiosnap is a PITA to work with vs ALbeton, complete chalk and cheese depending on the genre. Lol @ it may be user error. 

I will stick with sonar for production tho and probably get live 9 when it comes out. 9 does do 64bit, VST3, multiple vst folder scan, Automation, audio to midi with 2 seperate algorithms for drums and others, way better midi editing than sonar. Also much easier to navigate stuff generally. But functionality overall, sonar wins.

 

PTheory

• Ableton 9 does support VST3 - just around the corner
• Neither does Sonar to speak of
• Latency is a sonar specific problem that has nothing to do with my PC.  I use kontakt a lot and sonar doesn't like it, no problems at all when using ableton.  I have had people crawling all over my machine including key users from this forum and the latency issues are only experienced by sonar - no other DAW
• Possibly but unlikely experienced user (10 years) it just isn't a slick process at all compared to ableton which just does it for you
• See point 3

Dear Mister Idiot, 


You are an idiot.  


There are hundreds of posts from people in this forum clearly running with latency at or below 5-6 milliseconds.  Mine is running at 4.9, and if I felt like turning some services off it actually runs lower.  So, the statement that the latency is a Sonar-specific issue having nothing to do with your PC is ludicrous - absolutely looney thing to claim.


You must have Sonar match the sample rate to whatever you have your interface to, and the ASIO buffer size for your interface should be set to as low as possible above the level of any dropouts or audio crackles.  Other than that, it depends on what other device drivers you have on your computer potentially causing latency spikes (some video drivers and others), and also what background services are running, primarily.

Just because you haven't the sense to follow the advice of COUNTLESS posts on how to deal with latency does not make it Sonar's problem.  You are the problem.

And for Kontakt, I have used it since Komplete 3, in Sonar - might have used it in Home Studio too but that was a long time ago.  Anyways, Kontakt and Sonar play nicely together every day on my computer, and I am quite SURE that they didn't write a special version of Sonar for me that lets Kontakt be used, and I am just as sure they didn't send you a 'bad' version of Sonar that doesn't like Kontakt.  

Nope, it is another sad case of 'abuser error'

Maybe in another 10 years you will grow up, but I doubt it.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will cheerfully be glad we aren't you, and that we don't know you, all the while using Sonar, bugs and quirks and all, to produce music.

I could say more, but you are not worth even the time I put into what I typed, 

Bob Bone