robert_e_bone
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 10:07:56
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Oh yeah.. Just realized you're American. Your perception of the world IS kind of awkward..
(okay, maybe there's like 8 of you that know of things outside your borders..)
Hey! :) :)
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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synkrotron
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 10:11:29
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AT
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 10:14:31
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For the record, I think FL Studio is the #1 DAW, although many users were pirated. All those kids living at home trying to become the next beat rapper.
SOS is the major magazine in the world, not Europe. All the other mags have gotten slimmer and more add filled. The last time SOS got lighter was when they got rid of all the English local adds for their international edition. Even a majority of Gearslutz like SOS, which is saying something since everyone there seems to have a negative opinion about most things musical.
Cakewalk used to be more of an american DAW and it is still the more popular here after PT. Other DAWs are more popular, esp. in Europe where there are other "local" DAWs, but it has made significant inroads.
The OP seems to like another DAW and wishes SONAR was as easy to make music as the other choice, yet finds SONAR (as a full featured DAW) better at mixing. Duh. I still use P5 since it is easy to do loops and soft synths. I never mixed in it. If I am recording acoustic stuff I stick with SONAr since I can begin and end the project in one DAW. But for simple acoustic recordings Vegas is easier.
The OP likes live. He wishes SONAR would be more like it. But keep the stregnths. No doubt live will add some of its missing functions. Maybe it will keep its stregnths, but it will be more complex. Not every DAW is a hammer - some are more of a tool kit.
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http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Bonjo
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 10:14:50
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Sonar is my only DAW to date...here in the UK - (Europe) - and overall I'm quite happy with it. Thanks Cakewalk - USA.
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synkrotron
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 10:17:46
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Bonjo
Sonar is my only DAW to date...here in the UK - (Europe) - and overall I'm quite happy with it. Thanks Cakewalk - USA.
Plus One to that
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 11:46:14
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robert_e_bone
Oh yeah.. Just realized you're American. Your perception of the world IS kind of awkward..
(okay, maybe there's like 8 of you that know of things outside your borders..)
Hey! :) :)
Bob Bone
S'alright Bob, you're definitely one of the eight. 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 11:51:15
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That leaves 7, and I know of at least 1 who DEFINITELY doesn't qualify 
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NYSR
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 12:02:45
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I have not yet reached far enough along the learning curve to use X1 or X2 productively. It is a serious slow down for me. If I have a time critical project, I revert to SONAR 8.5. Things not only changed considerably in the revamp to X1, there are things I absolutely cannot figure out how to do yet.
Just the other day, for example, I could not move a small clip from one track to another without the smart tool jumping into an unwanted mode no matter what tool I specifically selected or area I tried to hover over. Sometimes the very moment I clicked the mouse, the tool would suddenly change. Re-sizing the view, selecting the specific tool, altering various apparent settings, I had to remove all envelopes from the track before being able to move 4 small clips from one track to another. Then I had to set the various envelopes back up. I have no idea why I could not move those clips. That is something I do on occasion in 8.5 without even thinking about it.
Another odd thing I keep running into is that every so often "all bins of this type are bypassed." And this is without my having even tried to bypass anything, it just suddenly starts happening and I notice various FX are no longer in the mix even though they are "on." I must have unconsciously touched a key or something.
I have been using the SONAR XI power book to guide me into the learning curve. I went from Pro Audio 9 to SONAR 1 without ever having to pick up the manual. And I doubt I ever looked at the manual for each of the updates through to SONAR 8.5. But with X1 I feel like I jumped ship and as if using a product that is only similar.
I still like X1 better than Pro Tools 10 in spite of being able to work more quickly in it. I use PT 10 at work.
Cakewalk customer since Apprentice version 1, PreSonus 16.4.2 ai, 3.5 gHz i7
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Skyline_UK
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 12:15:53
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I've been an SOS subscriber for fifteen years and have a pretty good feel now of their 'tone' when it comes to reviews. I've been a Sonar user and fan since Sonar 2.
When I first read this month's SOS X2 review I also got feeling the reviewer had "damned it with faint praise". When I saw this thread I went back and re-read the article. This time I felt it was in fact a well-crafted and balanced piece, but it still lacked some zest; it was not a ringing endorsement if you like. So I remain miffed, but that's my X2 loyalty speaking probably.
As I remember, Cubase got off to a flying start in Europe 1983 and became for quite a while the 'ProTools' default DAW of those early days. Even though strong challengers soon arrived they had already established a large and loyal user base in Europe. I tried it but went for Sonar instead because the Sonar interface was far more intuitive to me, and also, I'm one of the 'awkward squad' - more often than not I choose NOT to go with what's supposed to be No.1 !
I don't think Cubase got such a big toe-hold at the same time across the Atlantic, so it was not so difficult for Cakewalk to fight for its its place in the sun. But here in Europe CW still finds it hard work to get as many converts as it would like (and deserves, IMHO). Is the simple explanation that all companies look to their home market first before exporting?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 12:17:11
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NYSR
I have not yet reached far enough along the learning curve to use X1 or X2 productively. It is a serious slow down for me. If I have a time critical project, I revert to SONAR 8.5. Things not only changed considerably in the revamp to X1, there are things I absolutely cannot figure out how to do yet.
Just the other day, for example, I could not move a small clip from one track to another without the smart tool jumping into an unwanted mode no matter what tool I specifically selected or area I tried to hover over. Sometimes the very moment I clicked the mouse, the tool would suddenly change. Re-sizing the view, selecting the specific tool, altering various apparent settings, I had to remove all envelopes from the track before being able to move 4 small clips from one track to another. Then I had to set the various envelopes back up. I have no idea why I could not move those clips. That is something I do on occasion in 8.5 without even thinking about it.
That sounds like an edit filter issue possibly.
Another odd thing I keep running into is that every so often "all bins of this type are bypassed." And this is without my having even tried to bypass anything, it just suddenly starts happening and I notice various FX are no longer in the mix even though they are "on." I must have unconsciously touched a key or something.
E is the bypass all bins shortcut perhaps you've pressed that by mistake. I have been using the SONAR XI power book to guide me into the learning curve. I went from Pro Audio 9 to SONAR 1 without ever having to pick up the manual. And I doubt I ever looked at the manual for each of the updates through to SONAR 8.5. But with X1 I feel like I jumped ship and as if using a product that is only similar.
I still like X1 better than Pro Tools 10 in spite of being able to work more quickly in it. I use PT 10 at work.
You might like to check out some of my freebie videos on my youtube page that cover some of the X1 features. (Link in my sig) HTH
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Fog
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 13:58:35
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Swiller
@elsongs .. Another UK resident here and user. Id say geography has nothing to do with choice of Daw. Roland is also a UK based company. Americans cant make proper music anyway , apart from stuff that sounds like it was made on a farm by jock ewing on a steel string washboard. that and customer service DO come in for it now. Roland has a UK branch sure, but I bet is you test their kung fu with tricky questions with sonar, how many questions would be forwarded on to boston. ringing direct is a no no, unless it's via skype or calling card. the pricing I think is the biggest hurdle for US companies vs their EU counter parts. Companies I will avoid buying from due to their customer service / lack of... m-audio / avid ... have stitched me up on 3-4 times (with bad drivers/slow distro of props products) and reply with wrong answers FIVE times. NI ... like discontinuing products at short notice and NOT including vital info on their pages, to pay for an upgrade 2 times (b4 ii)... then finding it amusing. ableton.. paid for live 4 weeks earlier.. no arrival in the UK, if they had been smart they would have issued me with at least a serial number to get on. so yer, can't be worrying about ableton.. I hope bitwig is better and takes it customers.
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Dr. Mac
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 14:06:17
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I read the SOS review and felt it was positive overall, but luke-warm. SOS has always been a bit partial to pro-tools and MAC DAWs and is heavily sponsored by some of the "big boys". I've also noticed that they seem to use unflattering screenshots when reviewing Cakewalk products.
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backwoods
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 14:23:44
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I think the lowest review for any product I have seen in a music mag- music radar, SOS etc was about 7 or 8 out of ten. There is something seriously kooky at how all those guys hand out grades.
Tapeop is the only good one
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konradh
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 14:28:33
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Sound on Sound has a US Edition and I am always able to find SOS in Barnes and Noble. Admittedly, I live in Dallas-Fort Worth and it is a big area (7.5 million and 4th largest metro in the US), but I see SOS on sale when I travel around the country to much smaller cities. It seems the Americans on this forum (like me) are pretty familiar with it.
Most of the music magazines I read are from the U.K. (SOS, Recording, etc.). I think its because our cousins across the pond lead the way in many areas of the music business.
And Backwoods has a point that there are few really bad reviews in these mags, but I think that is because competition ensures manufacturers put out qualiuty products. I have definitely seens SOS say that a product is not ready, but you are right that it does not happen often.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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dubdisciple
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 20:44:18
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elsongs
I don't think this matters to Cakewalk one bit. SoS is a British publication, and no one (okay, maybe there's like 8 of you) in Europe uses Sonar anyway, so they're like, "Meh." Nearly all of Cakewalk's customer base is in US/Canada. Now if Keyboard or Computer Music gives X2 a bad review, Cakewalk will definitely listen.
I strongly disagree. Computer Music is far more biased in it's coverage than SOS. Other than the obligatory review article, their tutorials, tips , etc are almost all Ableton, Logic, Cubase and the occasional Pro Tools based. They give Sonar the same 8/9 they give almos tevery product they review and then never mention it again. SOS at least regularly publishes articles relevant to Sonar users.
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Fog
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 20:48:24
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CM's user base sonar wise isn't as strong as other things (a lot of electronic music makers read CM).. thats why it doesn't get so much coverage.. I don't think they cover loads for 1 specific DAW.. with the exception of logic perhaps because it's got the main market share on the mac, and thats what a fair few use in their master classes.
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dubdisciple
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 20:49:51
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elsongs
Bristol_Jonesey
8?
Eight?
Try having a look at the Member List and sort on location
Okay, I was being a bit sardonic, but let's face it: In Europe, Sonar just isn't a major DAW program. More people in Europe use freaking *Fruity Loops* than Sonar. Even Cakewalk knows that. In North America, at least they take Sonar more seriously.
Do you have any sales figures to support that? I would guess that FL has more pirated users than Sonar, but I doubt Cakewalk is losing any sleep over winning the popularity contest with thieves. I doubt you have anything to support whether FL is actually purchased more than SOnar. Even studios that use FL tend to not have it as the heart of their studio. There's a good reason they made the wise choice to make it a rewire plugin.
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stratman70
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 20:53:57
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daveny5
Who cares? The Beatles "Sgt Peppers" was recorded on 4-track tape. Sonar can do a lot more than that. Its not the brush, its the artist wielding it.
+1,000,000 on that Dave!
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dubdisciple
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 20:59:25
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Fog
CM's user base sonar wise isn't as strong as other things (a lot of electronic music makers read CM).. thats why it doesn't get so much coverage.. I don't think they cover loads for 1 specific DAW.. with the exception of logic perhaps because it's got the main market share on the mac, and thats what a fair few use in their master classes.
I guess it depends on the issue but most of the issues I have seen break down a lot like the one I am currently looking at: 4 Ableton 1 Reason 2 Logic 4 Cubase I concede that I have not read every issue, but even glancing at it at the local Barnes and Noble, the breakdown seems to be very similar to above with the numbers swinging a little bit but the Sonar based articles, tutorials, etc usually being zero. I don't fault them for that since their target audience is not likely Sonar users. Just mentioned because it seemed silly to me that Cakewalk would put more stock in the opinion of CM than SOS
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konradh
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/02 21:57:11
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daveny, I agree about Sgt Pepper, but have to add that The Beatles had unlimited studio time at Abbey Road; an unlimited record company budget; any mic, instrument, or ensemble they wanted instantly available; and a staff of world-class engineers and producers ready to do whatever they thought up.  This is NOT to take away from their enormous talents—just to help explain how they were able to pull that off on a four-track.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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Anderton
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 00:56:00
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Just FYI - the Sgt. Pepper's sessions used more than one four-track, there was quite a bit of bouncing.
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Anderton
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 01:03:06
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Dr. Mac
I read the SOS review and felt it was positive overall, but luke-warm. SOS has always been a bit partial to pro-tools and MAC DAWs and is heavily sponsored by some of the "big boys". I've also noticed that they seem to use unflattering screenshots when reviewing Cakewalk products.
In all fairness, though, SOS were "early adopters" of Sonar coverage - they asked me to start writing my Sonar column for them ten years ago, and have published it almost without interruption since then. One of the reasons why is because when the column got bumped a couple of times for space reasons, Sonar users were very vocal with their dissatisfaction. With evidence that the column was very popular, they've continued to include it. I can't think of any other magazine that gives coverage to Sonar virtually every month.
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Skyline_UK
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 04:18:07
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It got bumped this month? 
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elsongs
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 04:40:06
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Anderton
Dr. Mac
I read the SOS review and felt it was positive overall, but luke-warm. SOS has always been a bit partial to pro-tools and MAC DAWs and is heavily sponsored by some of the "big boys". I've also noticed that they seem to use unflattering screenshots when reviewing Cakewalk products.
In all fairness, though, SOS were "early adopters" of Sonar coverage - they asked me to start writing my Sonar column for them ten years ago, and have published it almost without interruption since then. One of the reasons why is because when the column got bumped a couple of times for space reasons, Sonar users were very vocal with their dissatisfaction. With evidence that the column was very popular, they've continued to include it. I can't think of any other magazine that gives coverage to Sonar virtually every month.
Craig - We know each other in person, and you know I think you're an awesome dude. Don't take this the wrong way, but whenever I see any mention of "Sonar" in a music production publication, I check the byline and 90% of the time, it's your name (and the other 10%, it's someone affiliated with Cakewalk). Not to take anything away from your expertise, writing ability or just plain awesomeness at all, and this is absolutely NO fault of your own, but I'd like to see more Sonar coverage in music publications written by people not named Craig Anderton (or anyone from Cakewalk) - The sole reason being that it would be nice to see that you're not the only Sonar user out there in the music production media. Again, it's not that I don't appreciate what you do in the press regarding Sonar - I definitely do, and nor do I have issues with what you write about -- I always learn something new, and that's the purpose of your articles after all. (Conversely, if you weren't out there, then no one would be covering Sonar...), but it would give more "cred" to Sonar to see other people write about Sonar-related topics. I'm just tired of seeing Sonar overlooked nearly all the time.
Elson Trinidad Los Angeles, CA, USA Web: www.elsongs.com Twitter: twitter.com/elsongs DAWs: Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cakewalk Sonar Platinum x64, Propellerhead Reason 9, Presonus Studio One v3 OS: Windows 10 Professional CPU: Intel i7 3820 3.6MHz MB: ASRock X79 Xtreme4 RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR3 Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Generation MIDI: MOTU Microlite & Novation Impulse 61
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 06:18:53
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PTheory
Thanks yes I tried that as the means to get it working and it was a complete pain, that was my point I didbn't need to do it in other software
Danny Danzi
PTheory
If you install the complete waves pack it loses lots of my other plugins saying I have to reduce the number of plug ins as sonar can't handle it
I've got over 1000 plugs on my test machine including Waves Mercury 9. Sonar sees them all without a problem. The key PT, is to create a custom plug list using plugin manager. It's time consuming, but soo worth while. Once you save it and back it up, if you ever have a serious crash and reinstall your plugs, you can just drop the plug menu in and it will automatically work.
-Danny
Yep, and I too will agree with you that it is something Sonar needs to address so that you're not forced to do a custom plug list. However, I'd not have it any other way as my custom list is so cool, I'd not want "just a list" that shows everything. When you have as many plugs as you and I have or have enough to where you get that Sonar plug warning message....you HAVE to have a custom plug list just so you always know what you have on there. From creating my custom plug list, I can systematically name nearly every plug on my system. I can look at my plugin manager and know in a second when a .dll shouldn't be there or something is new. Other than a few rogue plugs and some freebies that I may not use often, I can name every major plug on my system. Without plugin manager and the abilities it has given me to create custom directories (either by plug type or plug company) I would just have a bunch of stuff on my box that I wouldn't even know about. Knowing about them also reminds you to get rid of them if you don't use them....which is something I've been doing more of lately. Certain plugs I just know I'm not going to use. When I do a plug scan for a new plug or go through my custom directories, it reminds me of this. Again, I'm not disagreeing with you. I sincerely feel that plug warning thing needs to be taken care of somehow if at all possible. But once a person takes the time to create a custom plug list, you'll never go back to just having one big bunch all over the place. In seconds I know what I need as well as where it can be found without scrolling or guessing where it may be hiding. I urge anyone that hasn't tried to create a custom list to take an hour or two and do it if you can find the time. I've created them since this feature was given to us in Cakewalk and have saved every version I've ever made and time stamped it so I know when it was used and on what pc. Tedious and time consuming to do if you have loads of plugs, but the best final outcome over any other DAW I use in this respect. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Peter Morrison
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 06:28:09
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daveny5
Who cares? The Beatles "Sgt Peppers" was recorded on 4-track tape. Sonar can do a lot more than that. Its not the brush, its the artist wielding it.
I couldn't agree more. Hmmmn (2 x 4track tapes synced together)
Gear;-4 copper kettles-a large dustbin-a piece of string and a cotter pin. I keep a spring on standby
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ed97643
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 10:47:17
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Someone mentioned on page 2 that Roland is UK based. I'm sure that they have a major office there, but Roland headquarters is based in Japan.
Registered Cakewalk user since 1995
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Freddie H
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 11:00:03
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elsongs
Bristol_Jonesey
8?
Eight?
Try having a look at the Member List and sort on location
Okay, I was being a bit sardonic, but let's face it: In Europe, Sonar just isn't a major DAW program. More people in Europe use freaking *Fruity Loops* than Sonar. Even Cakewalk knows that. In North America, at least they take Sonar more seriously.
Are you living under a rock, Dude?  No serious producer in Europe or in US would even consider Ableton LIVE or Fruity loops as a real professional DAW. LIVE are more or less an Rewire application. Me too are based in Europe and I use SONAR X2. We in Europe use Cubase, Nunedo, SONAR, Studio One, Samplitude, Logic Pro and Pro Tools. Many in Europe are forefront pioneer in technology use only the best so that is why many (almost all major studios) have dropped Pro Tools HD, no x64bit support. Most use Cubase and Logic over here. Some producers use Studio One, SONAR and Samplitude.
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/01/05 11:10:08
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Freddie H
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 11:12:00
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Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine!
Where are the review? Can some link to it?
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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aleef
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/05 12:34:01
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Many in Europe are forefront pioneer in technology use only the best and also responsible for alot of electronical mindless dreck..
Intel i7 3820 3.6 GHz ASUS Sabertooth X79 16Gb SonarX2PE ProTools 11 RME HDSP9632
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