PTheory
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Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
Definitely puts sonar x2 in the "also ran" category. Some of the features in Ableton 9 are looking very attractive and having worked with 8 it is definitely more stable for me than sonar. Does anyone use the matrix view? if so how does it compare to Abelton in your experience?
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wormser
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 10:56:26
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I haven't read the review yet but if they are comparing Sonar to Ableton it's kind of like apples and oranges IMHO. Completely different philosophies and type of user IMHO.
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PTheory
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 11:13:12
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They aren't comparing it to Ableton (that was me having just started dabbling with Ableton) they are just saying that it doesn't do anything extra that all other DAW's can't and in fact the integration and workflow suffers compared to most other DAWS
Can't see how Ableton and Sonar are so different they both do exactly the same job which is to record, sequence and mix audio and midi
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Lemonboy
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 12:23:39
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PTheory
Definitely puts sonar x2 in the "also ran" category. Having read the review prior to seeing this and then re-reading after - I have to disagree with your summary. I thought it was well written, highlighting the features the reviewer thought had been improved in X2 and suggesting it was a worthwhile upgrade for existing users with not too many head scratching moments for people used to other DAWs. The fact that there was not much to make other DAW users jump ship to Sonar IMO is much more a reflection that they are all already at a high level (and therefore sensible journalism) rather than labelling Sonar as an "also ran" Andy
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djtrailmixxx
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 12:51:02
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I have to disagree as well. it seemed to be more of a product summary than a critical review. And I didn't pick up on any negativity. The article did have some critical points, but overall it was a well reasoned piece.
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karhide
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 13:07:26
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As a user of Ableton Live and Sonar X2 I would say they both compliment each other pretty well. I will often start a track in Live and then when I have the parts and structure I will finish the mix in Sonar. I have also read the review on SOS and thought it was a positive review.
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Linear Phase
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 13:12:52
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PTheory
They aren't comparing it to Ableton (that was me having just started dabbling with Ableton) they are just saying that it doesn't do anything extra that all other DAW's can't and in fact the integration and workflow suffers compared to most other DAWS
Can't see how Ableton and Sonar are so different they both do exactly the same job which is to record, sequence and mix audio and midi
That is such B.S. Where is your link to this, "review." Go try to fast bounce in Ableton Live. Go try to, "remove silence," in Ableton Live. Go achieve Fx on an audio clip in Ableton Live.... And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE... Try create 25 send buses in Ableton Live. Hmmm... Its too easy for to come along criticize Sonar. Ableton Live is, "well marketed junk," with expensive upgrade fees.
too many lasers...  Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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Linear Phase
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 13:42:35
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too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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PTheory
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 14:42:36
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Thats what I do too
karhide
As a user of Ableton Live and Sonar X2 I would say they both compliment each other pretty well. I will often start a track in Live and then when I have the parts and structure I will finish the mix in Sonar. I have also read the review on SOS and thought it was a positive review.
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miguelito
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 15:24:21
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Not for any reasons of disatisfaction with Sonar but I purchased Ableton about 8 weeks ago and I've been doing a 'deep dive' with it ever since. It is a very powerful tool but I have to admit there are a lot of head scratching moments. I think it is a fantastic sampler though...However trying to compare The Matrix to Session View in Live is really unfair in my opinion. The Session View is much more capable.
However the Track View or Console View in Sonar puts the Arrange View and the strips in the Sesion view to shame.
YMMV
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backwoods
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 15:38:15
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Ableton can fast bounce LP- it's just known as freeze and flatten.
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wormser
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 15:47:33
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PTheory
They aren't comparing it to Ableton (that was me having just started dabbling with Ableton) they are just saying that it doesn't do anything extra that all other DAW's can't and in fact the integration and workflow suffers compared to most other DAWS
Can't see how Ableton and Sonar are so different they both do exactly the same job which is to record, sequence and mix audio and midi
I just read the review and it seems to be a good review to me. SOS isn't like some of the other magazines that give positive reviews to everything. They, along with Tape OP are generally pretty honest and can be brutal on occasion. As for Abelton vs Sonar, it's a matter of workflow. Abelton is great for putting together songs via cut and pasting, inserting and manipulating loops and so forth. It's geared more towards people who are not recording live instruments, not that it can't be done, but it's not the best tool for that. Sonar is the opposite in fact. Both of course have a huge overlap, but their workflow makes them compliment rather than replace each other. That's just my 2 cents having worked with both.
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daveny5
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 15:49:28
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Who cares? The Beatles "Sgt Peppers" was recorded on 4-track tape. Sonar can do a lot more than that. Its not the brush, its the artist wielding it.
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Linear Phase
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 16:02:53
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backwoods
Ableton can fast bounce LP- it's just known as freeze and flatten.
That quirky nomenclature is on par with starbucks!! 
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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jb101
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 19:07:22
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I think the OP's reading of the review just demonstrates Freud's idea of projection, rather than the gist of the article.
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Linear Phase
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 19:16:21
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jb101
I think the OP's reading of the review just demonstrates Freud's idea of projection, rather than the gist of the article.
Something, right? You have to be kidding me... "SOS' Sonar Review was less than positive?" On what planet?
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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jb101
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 19:22:20
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Linear Phase
jb101
I think the OP's reading of the review just demonstrates Freud's idea of projection, rather than the gist of the article.
Something, right? You have to be kidding me... "SOS' Sonar Review was less than positive?" On what planet?
Not sure I understand your reply, LP. Sorry..
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AT
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 19:24:50
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I'm not sure the OP understands how to read a review. The review is positive but doesn't really go very deep - it is short for SOS. Walden does make some comparisons to Cubase and Logic and finds little to choose between. I guess the OP uses Ableton and hence the questions of same for comparison.
Some people use the matrix etc for a loop based world but it ain't really the same as dedicated loopers - even P5 was in a different class. As Cakewalk put it, it makes it easier to organize a song in the matrix if you have designed the song accordingly. But SONAR (and the earlier main DAWs) are linear recorders that have looping functions added. FL Studio, Live and P5 to a degree are more like sequencers for repeating audio/midi parts. It doesn't mean you can't do either task in either tool, but the tools make the right task easier.
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jb101
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/30 19:58:14
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This was the point I was making. I get the impression that the OP had already made up his mind about Sonar and "projected" his negative feelings onto the review. I found the review quite positive, personally, but maybe I'm projecting..
I still don't follow LP's response though, please explain.
Sorry for being dense.
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Linear Phase
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/31 04:17:06
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It was rhetorical. "Was the sound on sound review less than positive." The answer is no, "it was positive." So I was agreeing, that there was some sort of misunderstanding of said review. "Only on a planet far away," would that review be considered negative.
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/31 04:49:17
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I just read the whole review. I think it was very positive and objective.
Here is the closing remark, which may be the source of the OP's comments, however I think as other have said he projected his own feeling into how he intrepreted the review. (Maybe I have projected mine too?)
Does Sonar X2 have some killer features that would make Cubase or Logic users want to jump ship? Of that I’m less convinced, but that’s not to say I don’t think Sonar X2 is a very capable DAW. If you are a PC-based musician looking to buy your first serious DAW package, X2 is most certainly worth exploring. The Producer Edition reviewed here is cheaper than the full version of Cubase 6 and, while I don’t think the package as a whole feels quite as well integrated as Steinberg’s offering (perhaps because some of X2’s components are developed and supplied by other companies?), it is more than capable of making some very serious recordings.
Of course, there will be few Sonar users tempted to jump ship to Cubase either.
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whack
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2012/12/31 07:11:50
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I agree with daveny5, I dont even see the point in arguing over them, but people like to do it I guess!
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konradh
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 14:45:00
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I downloaded the pdf of the article. It said many good things about Sonar and called it a top0notch DAW. It siad V-Vocal was not quite the equal of Melodyne, but we knew that already. SOS priased the inclusion of the virtual instruments but noted that the documentation is not easy to find.
As others have stated, SOS called X2 a good choice but said it would not likely woo away users who are already comfortabled with another product. That goes both ways.
Note that much of the review refers back to the original write-up on X1 which was quite positive.
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Swiller
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:10:44
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Sonar is the best "daw" out there now. ( vs Pro tools, cubase, reaper )
But...
I see albeton as more of an audio workhorse instrument ..it pulls you in to the marvels it offers and encourages you to use it as an 8/16 bar loop instrument. It is bloody sensational at that and will add way more to an electronic musicians sonic arsenal than another hardware synth. But its ability to produce stuff like sonar is just not there on its own.
They are both great products and should not really be compared alongside each other. Live 9 will offer audio to midi conversion, atomics the glue compressor wherever you want it and design your own synth/plugin on top of the existing jaw dropping workflow. There is nothing on the market that will allow you to process audio like albeton can.
I think albeton is as important to dance music production as was the 808,303 and 909. A truly amazing piece of software for electronic dance music. My NI maschine is so sacked after demoing this for a couple of days.
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PTheory
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:31:55
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I agree with everything you are saying and the other point to note with Ableton is that it is absolutely rock solid and never crashes in my experience. Will I still use Sonar to mix in? Yes but the frequent audio drop outs and lack of capability to handle all my plug ins gets frustrating
Swiller
Sonar is the best "daw" out there now. ( vs Pro tools, cubase, reaper )
But...
I see albeton as more of an audio workhorse instrument ..it pulls you in to the marvels it offers and encourages you to use it as an 8/16 bar loop instrument. It is bloody sensational at that and will add way more to an electronic musicians sonic arsenal than another hardware synth. But its ability to produce stuff like sonar is just not there on its own.
They are both great products and should not really be compared alongside each other. Live 9 will offer audio to midi conversion, atomics the glue compressor wherever you want it and design your own synth/plugin on top of the existing jaw dropping workflow. There is nothing on the market that will allow you to process audio like albeton can.
I think albeton is as important to dance music production as was the 808,303 and 909. A truly amazing piece of software for electronic dance music. My NI maschine is so sacked after demoing this for a couple of days.
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backwoods
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:34:42
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PTheory- It has taken them about 3 years to get Ableton 8 to where it is now- it was notorious for crashing and for manifold bugs for years. It's still not as solid as X2 for me personally.
What plugins of yours is Sonar struggling with?
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PTheory
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:44:25
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the amount of them in particular waves
backwoods
PTheory- It has taken them about 3 years to get Ableton 8 to where it is now- it was notorious for crashing and for manifold bugs for years. It's still not as solid as X2 for me personally.
What plugins of yours is Sonar struggling with?
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backwoods
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:47:47
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If you are alluding to the fact Sonar doesn't offer full support for Waves plugs with VST3 versions, well, Ableton doesn't VST3 either PTheory. It's not even officially 64bit yet...
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PTheory
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:51:32
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No Sonar isn't able to handle the number of plugins I have
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backwoods
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Re:Underwhelming review in sound on sound magazine
2013/01/01 16:51:58
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Which ones does it struggle with PT?
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