V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround

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Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/05 02:53:37 (permalink)
I am another with this problem. I can have just one audio clip in a project and it crashes every time and after a long (time and distance) phone call to Cakewalk support last week and a couple of email exchanges since, I still have the problem.

Here were the suggestions by Cakewalk;
Enable cronus.dll - done
Use a mono clip - done
Use a short clip - done ( I assume 1 measure is short enough)
Make sure the track is not still armed - done

I have just unregistered and register cronus.dll as per the suggestion above too and then re-enabled it.

It makes no difference with an imported audio clip or one recorded directly in to Sonar.

I am awaiting my next response from Cakewalk but they only come back after a couple of days.

So if anyone has any other ideas, they would be appreciated.

Cheers.

FYI: Win XP Sp3, C2D 2.26, 4Gb ram, onboard IDT audio, asio4all v2.9.
#31
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/05 05:51:28 (permalink)
Can I ask, how are you attempting to apply V-V to your track/clip?

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#32
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/05 06:20:46 (permalink)
Right click -create vvocal clip - crash. I actually went through the process while on the phone to tech support.
#33
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/05 06:29:45 (permalink)
Also,
Edit menu -create vvocal clip - crash.

Forgot to add above 8.5PE, happens with 8.5.2 and 8.5.3


#34
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/06 06:15:21 (permalink)
Following the latest suggestions from support, I have completely uninstalled the anti-virus software (and firewall too) and it made no difference.


#35
moniker
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/06 08:33:33 (permalink)
I was sorry to find that old posts about V-Vocal are no longer archived on this forum.

The documentation on V-Vocal was hopeless. We were all very relieved when Pdarg posted his friendly user guide on this forum when V-Vocal was new.

I quote it here, with a few edits and additions of my own.

"V-Vocal Primer or What I Learned By Messing With It:" by Pdarg.

There seems to be misunderstandings about our beloved V-Vocal and how to use it... I posted this as an  answer in another thread. I thought I'd post it and also see if any of you all would add your V-wisdom!

1) Before using V-Vocal, I always copy the track to be worked on, name it accordingly and archive it. It is good insurance!

2) I always copy the track again, without the ‘events’, immediately below the track being worked upon. This gives you a space to move clips as described in 4) (below).

3) Upon opening V-Vocal,  be sure to set your Formant control "Follow Pitch" to 0 (zero) as this is not the default setting. Otherwise you may get the chipmunks.

4) Create only one V-Vocal clip at a time!
Get it right then bounce to clip.
You will find that the original  clip is still there underneath the V modified clip.
The original clip is clip-muted.
So, you will have a muted copy of your org clip underneath the copy of the V clip in the same track.
If you are satisfied with the V clip, you can delete the original clip.
Slip edit the V clip to the copy track (see 2) and it exposes the muted clip.
Good thing to delete the mute... remember that muted stuff still uses CPU cycles.)

5) Go to second clip and create V-Vocal clip. Repeat steps 3 and 4.

6) Do not create a mess of V-Vocal clips and leave them as V- Vocal clips! It's a tool, not a plug in! If you do aforementioned, you will surely crash your ship! Repeatedly making and un-making V-Clips on one clip will pile up a mess of clips there! Be sure to look underneath your clip to see what's hiding there if you have been doing this. V-Vocal does not clean up after itself.

7) You won't find above in the V-Vocal help file, this comes from the V- Trenches. It works, kids. V-Vocal absolutely rocks when you play nice! Love your V-Vocal... it's your helpful little friend.

Formant is pretty cool. It's described in the documentation as "vowel control". I think a better description might be "throat control". If you raise the pitch of sung note, the pitch seems to be coming from a smaller throat. Hence the chipmunks. You can "Open the throat" back up and the new note will sound like the original singer again. Very cool. Or you can set the Follow Pitch to 0.
Other note: Don't try to correct too much of a clip, or it will sound corrected. Leave most of the imperfections alone, as this is what really makes singing sound like people. Only correct the big stuff. If you find yourself editing every note, maybe you should consider redoing the track.

Another tip.... When you want to correct the vibrato of a note that occurs after a long vocal slide, say from c4 to g4... rather than dragging the g4's "vibrato line" up or down, which will also drag the "vocal slide" between the 2 notes, use your mouse to select just the g4 part of the note, and not the transition part between the notes. This will help avoid the ‘Cher’ effect. You'll still slide smoothly between notes, but the last note will be corrected.
Well, let's make 'em scary clean. Hover over the right end of the horizontal scroll bar (the one with the waveform of the clip) until you see the double arrow. Click and drag to the left and the window will zoom to the first part of the clip. Use the up / down arrows at bottom to zoom in further... if you have a wheel mouse  you can wheel up & down for vertical positioning.
Look at the first note in the clip. The white line represents the pitch, the yellow wavering line is the modulation. Make sure the arrow tool is selected, then hold down the control key and hover over the first note until you get a double bar, then click and drag up or down. The note will snap to the nearest chromatic tone (provided you haven't clicked any keys in the keyboard icon display.) Let go the control key and you can position it anywhere. OK, get that note tuned, then click on the LFO tool.
You have a serious collection of things here. If you hover over the note, then click & drag up or down, you can increase or decrease the existing modulation. (I have one vocalist whose vibrato is, IMHO, too deep. I can decrease this with this tool until he has vibrato like Aaron Neville. I mean, it's uncanny!)

Wait a minute, what about ‘my’ yukky vibrato? OK, same note, same tool: click and drag existing modulation to the center of note until it flat lines. Now play the note in SONAR and it will sound robotic. BTW: EZ to preview your tweaks as you go, just play 'em! I usually solo the track while working, then play in context b4 rendering. Now, hover at the beginning of note to get the pencil & sine wave icon, then click & drag to end of note. Hey, that's what my vibrato ‘really’ looks like, eh? Nice clean regular sine (Yeah, in my dreams!) OK, now hover at the beginning of note again to get the "lesser than sine wave" icon. Now click and drag across the note and amplitude of sine goes from small to tall. Click and drag over it to left or right to increase or decrease the sine frequency, up or down to increase or decrease amplitude.

Wait a minute... I did a portamento from the 3rd to 4th note. The white line is dead between the chromatic notes and the yellow line wavers over the first then slides up and wavers over the second. Wanna start over? Select the curve tool on left and you have a pencil icon. Simply draw a clean line and curve up to next note. (Steady hand now, Pdarg!) Now select the LFO tool and add some tasteful vibrato and, hey, you never sounded so good, dude!
There is tons more, I know I'm just scratching the surface. V-Vocal champs, please critique my above ideas and add your own! Let's get this V-Vocal thing going on!
Again, V-Vocal is a tool, not a plug in. You don't automate a tool. You can do intelligent auto correction of a whole take by entering the key in which you are singing. You cannot (to my knowledge) use V-Vocal as a real time corrector ala Auto-Tune.
BTW: I just discovered a new feature last night. Hold down <shift> when drawing with the LFO pencil and voila! A straight line!

_______________________________________________
Start by using the LFO tool to reduce existing fluctuations. Select the area of the clip to adjust, select the LFO tool, mouse over an area that's the detected pitch (those are the flat white lines... the cursor then changes to an LFO with up and down arrows), then click and drag down. You'll see the warbles and gravels get smaller. This works well, I believe because it preserves the original fluctuations of the voice, only reduces them, so they stay closer to on-pitch while still sounding natural. You can flatten it down to zero if you want, but I get great results by starting with about a 50% reduction and working from there.
After that, you can easily find the areas that are off-pitch, and grab the detected pitch (white line again) and drag it into place. Again, the segment points (nodes) adjust automatically to keep the transitions mostly natural. In the event that the transition is not pleasing and cannot be salvaged by moving nodes up and down, then is when I go for the Pencil or Curve tool (and almost never before this).

One other thing: The Formant knob defaults to 100% right after you convert to a V-Vocal clip. If you move it down to about 10% or so, even drastic changes in pitch will sound surprisingly natural. This knob you can season to taste.
You can do weird formant things, too. I was able to change an "aw" to an "aa". Close enough, it really needed to be an "ay", but there was no time to retrack. Anyway, it pretty much saved the track.

post edited by moniker - 2010/03/06 08:53:39
#36
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/07 07:49:06 (permalink)
Sadly I can't even create a Vvocal clip, it crashes as soon as I try.
#37
philz
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/08 00:44:38 (permalink)
This was a great help, Moniker.... thanks for digging it up and re-posting.
phil
#38
moniker
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/03/08 14:38:38 (permalink)
Sorry to hear that, Goseba and thanks, philz.

All the best,
Harry
(ala moniker)
#39
avrigus
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/14 19:51:06 (permalink)
Hey guys,

I am having exactly the same problem but I must add that v-vocal has been working fine for the past few years.

There are two recent things I have done that may have affected my working setup:
  1. I have only recently uninstalled version 8 since I was running low on disk space and use 8.5 exclusively
  2. I have recently installed Melodyne Editor (although I would hope this is unlikely to cause this issue)
This main problem I have is that all projects that I have previously used v-vocal on crash the entire program on load every time. This is a massive problem for me since one of my song projects is due to be released in an EP next week. If I can't open the file I can't release the EP.

I consider this to be a massive flaw with Sonar since I was unaware of any problem with v-vocal until it decided to crash every time I try to simply run it.

Today I will try to reinstall version 8 of Sonar along side of my existing 8.5 install. Hopefully it will return things to normal but I have a feeling the problem runs deeper than installing an old version of Sonar  :-/

I'll let you all know if I get it going again.
#40
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/14 20:38:56 (permalink)
With me, I had to completely uninstall everything, clean the registry, and reinstall with no other programs running. This solved it.
#41
vicevursa
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/15 02:16:04 (permalink)
Goseba


With me, I had to completely uninstall everything, clean the registry, and reinstall with no other programs running. This solved it.


What do you mean uninstall everything?  Is that just Sonar that was uninstalled?  How did you "clean the registry"?  I'm having the same problem you are - V-Vocal crashes upon attempting to use it.
#42
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/15 02:23:08 (permalink)
I had to completely uninstall Sonar. Cakewalk Support gave me instructions for cleaning the registry IIRC. I will try and find the info later and post ity here.
#43
glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/24 06:36:01 (permalink)
I will try and find the info later and post ity here.

Hey, will you please post that info. I have same problem after installing 8.5.3. SONAR support is not much help - their FAQ has not been updated on this issue in a looong time. It worked fine in 8.5 with the enabling of chronus.dll but now that doesn't seem to matter. It just crashes after 5 min. So maybe it is reinstall time. Amazing with a 10 generetion piece of SW that is not cheap that you still have to deal with %&/ like this. Maybe they should focus a little bit on the testing instead of trying crank out new features all the time.
#44
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/24 07:06:41 (permalink)
I had forgotten I was going to post the support info. Here is what they advised.

<Technical Support is offered to registered Cakewalk Customers>
post edited by Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] - 2010/06/02 11:16:39
#45
pwal
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/25 10:59:43 (permalink)
sheesh what a hassle

list of stuff
#46
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/25 18:32:39 (permalink)
But at least it solved it fortunately.
#47
Ham N Egz
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/25 19:43:42 (permalink)
but still a hassle to correct a very old problem that could(?)be resolved in a different fashion esp if you have to reload 8 then 8.X then 8.XX then 8.5xx

Green Acres is the place to be
 I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
 
#48
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/25 23:23:34 (permalink)
I agree totally, I would far rather not have to have gone through it all.
#49
glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/05/28 13:52:49 (permalink)
Where the hell is Cakewalk?? - what is the reason your friggin' paying customers having to throught this hassle?
#50
glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/02 02:53:39 (permalink)
I installed the latest 8.5.3 patch and suddenly the cronus.dll / V-Vocal pops up within 3-5 min - EVERYTIME.

CAKEWALK - if you are listening. It should be embarrasing to you to have to deal with this problem for this long and WITHOUT any fix. All you provide is workarounds and instructions on how to re-install. This is pathetic and unprofessionel. It is inexcusable that this problem is just mentioned with small entry in your FAQ. Step up to the plate admit that you have a serious problem, put some resource on fixing it but above all do NOT keep a secret.

This is what Support wrote me:

<Technical Support is offered to registered Cakewalk Customers>

<Please note this line>
  ***This correspondence is considered confidential and any reproduction for the purpose of public disclosure is forbidden without written permission by the author signed above.***
 
  <Technical Support is offered to registered Cakewalk Customers>

Where do I send the bill for performing this work and for the downtime in my studio? Maybe if Cakewalk could stop cramming new features in and charging their customers for new versons that is really a bug fix (or a a set of new bugs) in disguise they could assign some resource to fixong a very real problem that will bring your computer down.

How did I end up getting it fixed. Restoring my computer to the snapshot I took before installing Sonar 8 - and then start form scratch. Since I am a good customer I bought 8.5 on the net so I could download it quickly - which means a re-install start with version 8 - and then the numerous pathces.

CAKEWALK - this is unacceptable and you should be ashamed.
post edited by Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] - 2010/06/02 11:15:45
#51
ivanSC
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/02 04:08:40 (permalink)
An alternative is to use the free revo uninstaller, which will wipe EVERYTHING related to the app you are uninstalling if you tell it to, including all registry entries and even the docs!
a GREAT little app.
#52
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/02 11:22:41 (permalink)
Hey Guys,

I edited out correspondence from one of our Technical Support representatives. Please note that Technical Support is for registered customers of our products. We do not allow public disclosure of our help as there is numerous users on this forum and who frequent it that do not have legitimate copies.

If you have any questions about this policy feel free to send me a Private Message.

Best,

Best Regards,
Seth
#53
bitflipper
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/02 13:36:29 (permalink)
Seth, are you sure you want to open this can o' worms?

I can appreciate that requesting direct correspondence between customer and vendor be kept  confidential is perfectly reasonable.

But deliberately withholding technical information seems like a potentially disastrous policy in the long term. Surely you don't intend to tell Noel to stop posting his helpful technical insights here as well, out of fear that illegitimate users might benefit from them?

If you insist on this policy, might I suggest a separate forum for registered users rather than squelching the flow of information?


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#54
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/02 17:18:49 (permalink)
Hey Bitflipper,

This isn't a new policy. We've been doing this for a while now (at minimum 3 years).

Noel's information is not from the Technical Support Department. So, it's not subject to enforcement/deletion.

<edit>Technical Support information can easily be misunderstood and there's been a few instances of customers making their situation far worse in the long run. Support can also be easily taken out of context without the full correspondence. The suggested solution may not be the solution for everybody if system specific variables aren't taken into account etc.

Regardless, the poster should have refrained from re-posting the information as it was clearly stated in the e-mail.

Best,
post edited by Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] - 2010/06/02 17:26:05

Best Regards,
Seth
#55
yorolpal
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/02 23:11:19 (permalink)
Hey Seth, ol pal.  Welcome to the forum.  You seem a little misguided.  Does Gregg know you're posting (or unposting, actually) such nonsense to the forum?  Have you been taking your meds?  You seem a little tense.


PS: it should be "as there ARE numerous users..."
post edited by yorolpal - 2010/06/02 23:17:53

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#56
Goseba
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/03 06:30:55 (permalink)
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]

Regardless, the poster should have refrained from re-posting the information as it was clearly stated in the e-mail.

My apologies, you are correct. I hadn't read that part of the email, I was only interested in the content (how to solve the problem) and was trying to help others with the information. I respect that it was stated it was confidential but genuinely had not seen the comment.
#57
BluesMeister
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/12 22:12:28 (permalink)
For the first time since upgrading to 8.5 I've been trying to use V-Vocal but Sonar keeps crashing. I've tried the fixes as suggested in this thread (thanks to BitFlipper & Vinny) but to no avail. My Cronus.dll is version 1.5.2.5 I upgraded to S8 from S5 and V-Vocal worked fine in S5.

For the benefit of Vinny, my video is built in on the motherboard.

If anyone has another suggestion for me to try to fix this issue, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Frank

BluesMeister
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#58
glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/13 07:24:49 (permalink)
Too bad Cakewalk won't fix the problem, talk about it or even post workarounds. When their paying users attempt to help by posting the information that we got from Technical Support - they delete it (ref Seth Kellogs post above).

It think they should be ashamed of themselves to treat us like this. They have not even posted all the information available on this problem. You have to contact Tech Support - and then they will tell you in details on how to completely re-install your ssytem because they haven't got a clue on how to fix this irritating problem and would rather sweep in under the bed. Meybe will go away in one of the bug fix releases we are forced to pay for.

Cakewalk - I have been a customer since teh dos days - but now you suck! Shame on you.
#59
glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/06/14 15:29:25 (permalink)
Maybe they really did answer my previous post - it is just so confidential that they had to delete it....and maybe kill if you managed to read it before it was removed. Because what can possibly be more confidential that an answer from Technical Support - I mean what would happen if all the problems were solved - they would be out of a job.
#60
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