V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround

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Vinny
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2009/04/08 15:47:08 (permalink)

V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround

From what I've read, there has been a LOT of problems with V-Vocal crashing with multiple open clips. I was having major problems with V-Vocal crashing certain projects, always with multiple V-Vocal clips (with V-Vocal open, tracks not frozen). This had happened to me with an earlier version of Sonar (8.0 I think...) as well. I usually got an "un-handled exception error" and it was always in "cronus.dll".

After finding out this dll is part of V-Vocal, I also discovered that it was excluded in the plug-in manager under the DirectX audio effects (DX) category. I enabled it, my crashing problem went away, and I forgot about it.

I upgraded to the latest version (8.3.1.372) a few weeks ago when it became available. I recently was working on another project with multiple V-Vocal clips in it, and my crashing problem returned. After much cursing and editing short clips followed by saving after each edit, I started looking for info to send to Cake Support to get this resolved. Part of that was searching the forum and discovering many people have this same problem and error - and not seeing a fix reported. I did see a complete un-installation and purge of the Registry and new installation recommended several times though, including at least one post that said that was the recommended course of action by Cake TS.

I eventually remembered my earlier experience, and I checked the plug-in manager again. Low and behold, "cronus.dll" was once again excluded, which tells me that's part of the installation routine, and it's probably supposed to be that way. However, when I enabled cronus.dll, my crashing problem immediately went away, and it hasn't crashed since.

I don't think the "fix" is as simple as that, so for me, this is more of a workaround. But for me at least, it is working. I'd like to suggest that anyone else who is having this problem try this as well, and let's report the results back.

Good luck - and I hope this helps someone!!

Vinny
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    gadget
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 15:58:56 (permalink)
    I will give that a try - I'm another having this cronus.dll problem.

    How am I supposed to fit my entire system specs into 255 characters? Is this the dark ages?! Maybe I should try some Haiku...
    #2
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 16:06:19 (permalink)
    Good luck - let us know if that works!
    #3
    dantarbill
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 16:32:21 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: gadget

    I will give that a try - I'm another having this cronus.dll problem.

    Check the version of your Cronus.dll. You should be able to hover your mouse pointer over the file in Windows Explorer and the version data will appear. The version that's being shipped with the 8.x updates is 1.5.1.0 (timestamped 10/4/2007). Note that this is older than the version that had been shipped previously (1.5.2.0 from 10/1/2008). It would seem that Cakewalk's fix was to regress the Roland supplied file back to a previous version.

    (I keep both of them around...just in case.)

    Dan Tarbill
    #4
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 16:46:29 (permalink)
    The version on my machine is 1.5.1.0, creation date is 6-28-2008 though. Still had problems with it.
    post edited by Vinny - 2009/04/08 16:53:59
    #5
    gadget
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 17:40:42 (permalink)
    Mine is 1.5.1.0 with creation date '6 Dec 2008'...

    ... and modified date '10 April 2007' (!)

    Modified before created - now that's clever

    Anyhow, joking aside, which one's best to have?

    How am I supposed to fit my entire system specs into 255 characters? Is this the dark ages?! Maybe I should try some Haiku...
    #6
    dantarbill
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 18:16:33 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: gadget

    Anyhow, joking aside, which one's best to have?


    The only thing I know is that Cakewalk wants you to have 1.5.1.0.

    I run one version on one machine, and the other version on the other...and haven't run into big problems with either...but that may be because I adopted the habit long ago, of committing V-Vocal changes immediately via Bounce to Clips. I've never had the cahones to leave V-Vocal inline.

    Dan Tarbill
    #7
    Hansenhaus
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 18:22:12 (permalink)
    Hi Vinny,

    I was having the same problem with the cronus.dll as well. Constant crashing and disruptions of mixing. I havent been working on a projects that included vocals for a while so the problem faded from my mind. I'm glad I found your post and I will check my V-Vocal plug to see if they are enabled or not and run some tests.

    Thanks for the information!

    Eric

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    #8
    superdan54
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/08 23:41:44 (permalink)
    awesome! great find, I was having problems with this as well.
    #9
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 03:12:28 (permalink)
    It's not quite a find yet - lets see if it helps anyone (other than me)!
    #10
    jshep0102
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 05:55:29 (permalink)
    I adopted the habit long ago, of committing V-Vocal changes immediately via Bounce to Clips.

    Me, too. There is also a copy of the clip (sometimes on top of it, sometimes underneath the bounced clip w/ a red circle/arrow through it on the clip and it's kinda greyed out). I always delete that, too. No issues when doing these things. HTH, Shep

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    #11
    dantarbill
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 12:13:50 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jshep0102

    I adopted the habit long ago, of committing V-Vocal changes immediately via Bounce to Clips.

    Me, too. There is also a copy of the clip (sometimes on top of it, sometimes underneath the bounced clip w/ a red circle/arrow through it on the clip and it's kinda greyed out). I always delete that, too. No issues when doing these things. HTH, Shep


    FYI...the "red circle/arrow through it" bit is simply a muted clip. You can un-mute it by selecting it and hitting 'Q' on your computer keyboard. SONAR is being good to you by making a copy of the clip before you mess with it so, even if you commit your changes with a bounce, you can still go back to the way it was before (so you can screw it up differently the next time).

    Dan Tarbill
    #12
    donhearl
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 12:22:23 (permalink)
    Another issue I was having with V-Vocal earlier this week was this "invalid argument" error dialog box. I had two V-Vocal clips (before bouncing) open. I did some research and realized that there have been problems when having the loop construction view open as well. I discovered that the loop construction window was open under my track view. I also had two real time external effects going. At this point, I think I just had too much going on at once. When I got the invalid argument error the second time (of course it completely freezes the machine, requiring hard boot), I decided to take off the external inserts, close loop construction and then do one V-Vocal clip at a time.

    Im rambling, but I wanted to weigh in on some of the issues Im encountering as I push the system.

    Regards,

    Sonar 8.3.1, Core 2 Quad Q9300, 4 GB DDR2 ram, 4 X 500 GB Sata II 32 mb drives, Lynx Aurora 16, RME FF800, 2XUAD-1 PCIe
    #13
    bitflipper
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 12:54:37 (permalink)
    cronus.dll (along with VpEnc.dll and VPSoloDec.dll) is V-Vocal.

    It is also an ActiveX library, which means it has to be registered in order to work. If it's not registered, SONAR will not be able to link to it at runtime and a nasty error will be raised when you attempt to invoke V-Vocal.

    Registration should take place during installation, but if anything (e.g. insufficient Windows permissions) prevents that from happening you'll need to re-register it manually. I have also seen ActiveX libraries become un-registered after a successful installation, but I do not know why that happens.

    To manually register an ActiveX DLL, use the REGSVR32.EXE utility. At the Windows Run prompt (or in a DOS window) invoke REGSVR32 twice, once to un-register the DLL and a second time to register it:
    REGSVR32 /U "c:\program files\cakewalk\shared dxi\vvocal\cronus.dll"
    REGSVR32 "c:\program files\cakewalk\shared dxi\vvocal\cronus.dll"

    If REGSVR32 fails, it will say so and give you an error code that indicates why the registration failed. If you've given the correct path, AND cronus.dll actually exists, the most likely cause of failure is that your Windows profile does not have sufficient rights to modify the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE registry hive. The second most-likely reason is that cronus.dll itself is corrupt.

    (For many DLLs, the most likely reason for failure to register is a missing dependency. However, all of cronus.dll's external dependencies are standard Windows files so this shouldn't be an issue unless you've got a serious problem such as a mismatched OLEAUT32 or something.)

    The other two DLLs are static libraries and do not require registration.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #14
    MaestroGeek
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 14:19:21 (permalink)
    In my system, V-Vocal just seems to be unstable in general regardless of cronus.dll status. V-Vocal does run okay for the most part but then as I have it keep looping for editing, the stability of the system decreases significantly often causing SONAR to crash.
    I'm a bit confused about this cronus.dll file. Even with it being excluded in the plug-in manager, V-Vocal does run in my system. I wonder if there would be any difference in stability with bitflipper's 'regsvr32' advice. I'll try it out and see if that improves the system stability with V-Vocal.

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    #15
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 14:59:43 (permalink)
    Bitflipper -

    I think we know that cronus.dll is, or is a part of, v-vocal. This is not a case of v-vocal not working. It is a case of it working fine and then with multiple clips open it causing an un-handled exception error which causes Sonar to crash, which the dialog always names "cronus.dll" as the offender - Different problem. Were cronus.dll not registered, it would not work at all, and wouldn't show up in the plug-in manager at all, either excluded or otherwise. And yes, I have tried un-registering and re-registering "cronus.dll" and it didn't fix the problem.

    Everyone is talking about how they fix this crashing problem with workflow, by immediately committing changes to clips by freezing them and closing v-vocal. That workaround works for some people (for me too), but does not fix the underlying problem. The workaround I'm suggesting doesn't fix the problem either, but it seems to stop the crashing due to the un-handled exception error on MY system. I'm interested in seeing if it limits the issue in other systems as well. If it does, then we may have additional clues for Cake TS (or Roland) for a real fix, so we don't have to do workarounds, and we can work with v-vocal with multiple open clips without having to worry about Sonar crashing, and making a great program that much better and more solid.

    I am fully aware that this "shouldn't" be a fix, and in my mind it's not - its a workaround. Someone at Roland probably left some parameters exposed in the cronus.dll that shouldn't be, which is causing this behavior (as a completely wild, but not entirely uneducated guess). All I can say is that it works for me, and I'm trying to find out if that's dumb blind luck or if there's something behind it!!

    Have a great day...

    V.
    #16
    kevo
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 15:51:20 (permalink)

    If it does, then we may have additional clues for Cake TS (or Roland) for a real fix, so we don't have to do workarounds, and we can work with v-vocal with multiple open clips without having to worry about Sonar crashing, and making a great program that much better and more solid.


    This problem with V-Vocal has existed literally for years. It is doubtful anything will be done about it any time soon.

    Many users experience the V-Vocal bug. It comes up very frequently. For proof, just do a search of this forum.. The bug has existed since Sonar 5 when V-Vocal was first introduced.

    The workaround of working on 1 clip at a time, and bouncing to clip, works 100% of the time for most users.

    Cakewalk by lack of action must feel that the work-around is to be considered the fix... It certainly is not on any burner to be addressed. If it were a hot issue, they would have fixed it 3 years ago...
    #17
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 16:52:30 (permalink)
    This problem with V-Vocal has existed literally for years.

    I know...
    It comes up very frequently. For proof, just do a search of this forum

    I did...
    The bug has existed since Sonar 5 when V-Vocal was first introduced

    Very likely - I still used AT until S7, I think...

    The workaround of working on 1 clip at a time, and bouncing to clip, works 100% of the time for most users.

    I know this too - but I think the workaround I'm suggesting is easier than that one, and so may be attractive to some people.

    I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel, I'm just sharing something I found that made my life easier. If in turn, we find something that makes it easier for Cake to fix something, is that not good? Use the other workaround if you want to. Try this one if you get a chance and see if it makes things easier for you. Report it to Cake TS if it does and if enough of us do, we may have a fix released in the future. In the mean time, I can mix with multiple v-vocal clips open on my machine and Sonar remains stable, and that's a good thing!

    V.
    #18
    j boy
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/09 17:46:02 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: kevo

    Cakewalk by lack of action must feel that the work-around is to be considered the fix... It certainly is not on any burner to be addressed. If it were a hot issue, they would have fixed it 3 years ago...


    Yes, they probably don't consider it a *workaround* but it's simply the way you're supposed to use V-Vocal.
    #19
    wm0203
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/15 05:27:19 (permalink)
    Vinny
    Could you tell me how to enable the cronus.dll file please?
    I am having exactly the same trouble with V-Vocal. I have looked in Tools-Cakewalk Plug-in Manager but can't see the file.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    wm0203

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    #20
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/16 00:11:52 (permalink)
    WM -

    I'm not sitting at my DAW right now so descriptions may be a little off - Go to the plug-in manager and select DX plugins from the picklist on the left side. Under that pickbox is a selection for "excluded" plug-ins. Click that, and all the DX plug-ins that have been excluded for use with Sonar will show up, and cronus.dll will be one of them. Click on that and select "enable".

    By chance are you using an ATI based video card? After reviewing my records and previous posts, it appears that this problem surfaced for me only after my nvidia based video card died and I replaced it with an ATI card. Could be a driver conflict...

    V.
    #21
    wm0203
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/16 13:47:53 (permalink)
    Thanks for your prompt reply Vinny. following your instructions, I found the cronus .dll file and enabled it and everything has been working well for a couple of hours with loops involved. I haven't changed my NVIDIA based card, so it couldn't have been that, that caused the problem.

    wm0203

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    #22
    Vinny
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/04/16 15:41:04 (permalink)
    Interesting.... so that's +1 for this working for someone other than me !

    Good luck, hope that continues to work for you.
    #23
    ljimmyc
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    Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/07/31 00:18:01 (permalink)
    THIS WORKED FOR ME!!!  Great job brutha.   Not sure but I think mine bombed after I deleted a V-Clip w/o undoing 1st.  Who knows - thanks a bunch
    #24
    michael japan
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/07/31 09:32:52 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    cronus.dll (along with VpEnc.dll and VPSoloDec.dll) is V-Vocal.

    It is also an ActiveX library, which means it has to be registered in order to work. If it's not registered, SONAR will not be able to link to it at runtime and a nasty error will be raised when you attempt to invoke V-Vocal.

    Registration should take place during installation, but if anything (e.g. insufficient Windows permissions) prevents that from happening you'll need to re-register it manually. I have also seen ActiveX libraries become un-registered after a successful installation, but I do not know why that happens.

    To manually register an ActiveX DLL, use the REGSVR32.EXE utility. At the Windows Run prompt (or in a DOS window) invoke REGSVR32 twice, once to un-register the DLL and a second time to register it:
    REGSVR32 /U "c:\program files\cakewalk\shared dxi\vvocal\cronus.dll"
    REGSVR32 "c:\program files\cakewalk\shared dxi\vvocal\cronus.dll"

    If REGSVR32 fails, it will say so and give you an error code that indicates why the registration failed. If you've given the correct path, AND cronus.dll actually exists, the most likely cause of failure is that your Windows profile does not have sufficient rights to modify the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE registry hive. The second most-likely reason is that cronus.dll itself is corrupt.

    (For many DLLs, the most likely reason for failure to register is a missing dependency. However, all of cronus.dll's external dependencies are standard Windows files so this shouldn't be an issue unless you've got a serious problem such as a mismatched OLEAUT32 or something.)

    The other two DLLs are static libraries and do not require registration.

    do you teach math in university? That was fascinating man. I have had the problem a few times. Can you re-write simply point by point and where to find that little cronus bugger? Great post.

    Michael



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    #25
    bitflipper
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/07/31 11:49:07 (permalink)
    do you teach math in university?


    No, but in a previous life I taught electronics math at a vocational college. That was a long while ago; we used slide rules back then!

    Registration of ActiveX DLLs is a deeper topic than you might imagine. As a software developer, over the years I have had to spend a lot of time troubleshooting ActiveX problems such as unexpected interdependencies and version mismatches. Many late-night telephone conversations with on-site installers. They don't call it "DLL Hell" for nothing.

    ActiveX DLLs differ from conventional DLLs in several ways. One of those differences is that it doesn't matter where the ActiveX DLL physically resides. Applications that call the DLL are able to find it by looking it up in the Registry, where the DLL has previously written crucial information such as where it physically resides.

    The calling application doesn't refer to the DLL by name, but by a unique identifier called a CLSID (class ID). Every DLL must have a unique CLSID. Cronus.dll's CLSID is "{0E7C41F0-68A2-45F5-B9C2-CC37BA99810D}", quite a mouthful. But that's how V-Vocal is known inside the computer, not as V-Vocal or cronus.dll but as "{0E7C41F0-68A2-45F5-B9C2-CC37BA99810D}".

    Maybe that would be a cool forum handle. Just call me "{0E7C41F0-68A2-45F5-B9C2-CC37BA99810D}" -- or just "0E7" to my closest friends.

    This is what is meant by "registration": the DLL is checking in and introducing itself to the Registry. When you invoke the REGSVR32.EXE utility, it's simply calling the DLLRegisterServer function within the target DLL, which every ActiveX DLL must include. DLLRegisterServer creates some registry keys under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, the most important one in \software\classes\clsid, where the DX/DXi writes its unique CLSID, its primary entry in the internal "phone book".

    Software installation programs normally take care of this as part of the installation process. Sometimes, users fix problems by re-installing software packages, which can be quite time-consuming when all they really needed to do was re-register one or more DLLs.

    If you're not sure if a DLL is ActiveX or not, just run REGSVR32 against it. It doesn't hurt anything if it's not an ActiveX DLL, it'll just tell you that the DllRegisterServer entry point was not found. It also doesn't hurt anything if the DLL has already been registered (as long as you're re-registering the same DLL - you can get into trouble if you have multiple versions of the same DLL on disk; re-registering a different one de-activates the previous one.)

    Cakewalk gathers most DX (ActiveX) effects and instruments under a folder named "shared dxi" under the main Cakewalk folder (usually program files\cakewalk). In there you'll find V-Vocal and most of the other DXi's such as TTS-1 and Dreamstation. Not all of the DLLs in there are ActiveX, though. V-Vocal, for instance, consists of 3 DLLs, only one of which (cronus.dll) requires registration. But again, there's no harm in attempting to register a DLL that doesn't need it or re-registering one that's already been registered. So register away.

    Want to explore further? DLLs often call other DLLs. Those other DLLs are called "dependencies", because the top-level DLL depends on them to be present in order to work properly. Sometimes, an ActiveX DLL will fail to register because a dependency is missing. Or worse, the DLL registers OK but subsequently crashes because a dependency is missing.

    There is a tool you can get from Microsoft that shows file dependencies for any DLL or EXE. It's called DEPENDS.EXE. If you run Depends against cronus.dll, you'll see that cronus relies on 10 other DLLs, and each of them has their own dependencies, and their dependencies have dependencies. Fortunately, for cronus.dll the dependencies are standard Windows files, so they're unlikely to be missing.

    DEPENDS.EXE can be fun. OK, fun if you're a total geek. Use it to see what dependencies SONARPDR.EXE has - a boatload of 'em!

    Mmm, this was kind of a rambling response, but maybe it's piqued someone's curiosity and taken a little mystery out of DXi registration.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #26
    j boy
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/07/31 12:43:08 (permalink)
    V-Vocal is still not ready for prime time.  I don't really care --why-- it crashes, I just care that it does.  We paid for something that doesn't work as advertised is the bottom line.  CW needs to fix it once and for all or bundle Melodyne LE next time, please.
    #27
    vocalid
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    RE: V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/08/01 15:55:07 (permalink)
    j boy


    V-Vocal is still not ready for prime time.  I don't really care --why-- it crashes, I just care that it does.  We paid for something that doesn't work as advertised is the bottom line.  CW needs to fix it once and for all or bundle Melodyne LE next time, please.

    I concur! V-Vocal was one of the main selling points for me to get Sonar. I've now bought Melodyne as Cakewalk doesn't seem to be interested in fixing it 

    Goodbye
    #28
    Sacalait
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    Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2009/09/02 14:02:41 (permalink)
    Thanks Vinny!  I was having the EXACT issue in the last few days- V-Vocal constantly crashing Sonar.  So I decided to do a search here and found your post.  I found exactly as you stated.  Much appreciated!

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    #29
    alexdamk
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    Re:V-Vocal crashing Sonar "cronus.dll" Workaround 2010/02/10 10:59:33 (permalink)
    Hi...I have this problem with cronus.dll too, and I get not open my project because this problem. when i open my project it appears and reset my computer. I tried to enable the the cronus but not resolved. What do i do? I need to continue my project! thanks...
    #30
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