BenMMusTech
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Vari Speed-Why Not?
I know this has been talked about a lot but why is there still no Vari speed function in Sonar?? It is an important tool in our sonic arsenal and an important piece of Sonic Arts history. If a crap program like Reaper (I don't like the interface) can implement it and its available in Logic and I think Cubase why not Sonar?? I'm sick of having to export into Reaper to do authentic tape speed effects. It would be nice if they could implement into the new tape sim. Just saying!!
Ben
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John
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 16:58:21
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BenMMusTech
I know this has been talked about a lot but why is there still no Vari speed function in Sonar?? It is an important tool in our sonic arsenal and an important piece of Sonic Arts history. If a crap program like Reaper (I don't like the interface) can implement it and its available in Logic and I think Cubase why not Sonar?? I'm sick of having to export into Reaper to do authentic tape speed effects. It would be nice if they could implement into the new tape sim. Just saying!!
Ben
Authentic tape speed effects from a digital audio workstation. Now that is funny. That reminds me of a a label on a sweater which read "Genuine Virgin Acrylic"!
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BenMMusTech
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 17:22:30
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☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2014/04/05 12:26:48
Ah my old mate John, now I'm going to be polite, well as much as I can be! It's a genuine question about a technique that was pioneered first using phonograph records and then refined via tape. So its a tape speed effect. Does it have a digital name?? I don't think so, but you might know. What I don't understand is why your are poo-pooing an idea that is a very important part of a producers arsenal of tricks? It has been used on countless popular music records and in various Sonic Arts experiments?
Ben
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John
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 17:48:11
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BenMMusTech
Ah my old mate John, now I'm going to be polite, well as much as I can be! It's a genuine question about a technique that was pioneered first using phonograph records and then refined via tape. So its a tape speed effect. Does it have a digital name?? I don't think so, but you might know. What I don't understand is why your are poo-pooing an idea that is a very important part of a producers arsenal of tricks? It has been used on countless popular music records and in various Sonic Arts experiments?
Ben
You read too much in my post. It just strikes me as funny that this is thought to be authentic when the word authentic has a different meaning. Virtual or simulated is more appropriate. Whether Sonar ever offers it or not I hope they don't call it authentic.
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rodreb
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:02:32
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I, too, have been asking for vari-speed in Sonar for a LONG time! It's really kind of ridiculous that we don't have it already, considering just about every other DAW has had it forever!
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Grem
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:02:45
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I had a joke here. But decided against it. Mostly because I do understand the FX wanted.
I have a part of a verse if a song I did long ago that the original idea for it was to keep speeding up, as a tape machine would do if just allowed to go!
Never knew that Rea*** could do it.thanks for that info.
Grem
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Stone House Studios
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:05:15
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This reminds me of a presentation I did about 12 years ago - it was all about digital music recording and production. (Using Sonar the first I believe.) I ended it with a line about how the next step was to figure out how to make digital sound like analog!
Brian
Edit: Not saying varispeed wouldn't be useful - John's comments reminded me of this experience!
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mixmkr
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:08:44
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so... how many hands for synthetic vari-speed?
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Grem
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:10:54
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mixmkr
so... how many hands for synthetic vari-speed?
Only if it's call "Authentic Varispeed!"
Grem
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BenMMusTech
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:12:44
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John
BenMMusTech
Ah my old mate John, now I'm going to be polite, well as much as I can be! It's a genuine question about a technique that was pioneered first using phonograph records and then refined via tape. So its a tape speed effect. Does it have a digital name?? I don't think so, but you might know. What I don't understand is why your are poo-pooing an idea that is a very important part of a producers arsenal of tricks? It has been used on countless popular music records and in various Sonic Arts experiments?
Ben
You read too much in my post. It just strikes me as funny that this is thought to be authentic when the word authentic has a different meaning. Virtual or simulated is more appropriate. Whether Sonar ever offers it or not I hope they don't call it authentic.
Sorry John I was being too sensitive (previous interactions, lets put them behind us we both have our specialties and life is too short) I suppose I was thinking of when calling it authentic of Reel ADT by Waves and even that is a misnomer. Yep Grem Reaper does have Vari Speed and it works really well, I've used it to help me hit notes that I cant hit and I've used as "tape" effect and sped up the end of a song. So it works. Maybe we should start a digital petition, as I think enough of us want this and it should now be a priority for Cakewalk, everything else in Sonar seems to be rock solid, the emulation stuff is good it certainly adds flavour and colour. So a response from Cakewalk would be good!! Ben
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BenMMusTech
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:14:11
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mixmkr
so... how many hands for synthetic vari-speed?
Lets just call it Vari Speed :)
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Ruben
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 18:27:11
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I'd like to see it added to Sonar, no matter what the name.
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michaelhanson
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/03 19:25:26
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I authentically would as well.
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Kev999
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 05:46:51
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Vari-speed has been a much requested feature for years. I guess that it must be difficult to implement, otherwise we would have it by now.
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skinnybones lampshade
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 06:31:53
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My hand is in the air, too. I'd really like to have Vari-Speed. I had lots of fun with it way back when.
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THambrecht
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 06:39:27
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I miss varispeed for years.
Even for recording musical effects in half speed.
We earn our money with the digitization of tapes and Vinyl.
And also with the processing of digitization, varispeed would be important.
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MarioD
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 08:16:21
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Another +1 for vari-speed.
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Anderton
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 11:12:54
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I like vari-speed too, but wonder how y'all want to use it. There are several workarounds in Sonar that care of what I'd usually do with vari-speed...for example, I have two main uses for vari-speed. One is to speed up the final stereo mix, but I can do that with the Ctrl-drag time-stretching DSP.
My other main use is lowering or raising pitch so I can sing along, then change pitch back to normal to give a different vocal timbre (or allow me to hit high notes, LOL). For this I just do a premix, mute the other tracks, use the transpose DSP on the premix, and sing along.
Granted having a single knob would be nice, especially for "tape stop" effects (there's no workaround for this that I've found), but given how I use vari-speed I find the existing tools sufficient.
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Lynn
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 12:54:54
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I would like to have vari-speed, too. There are many creative uses for this other than the obvious. Yet, I can see the challenge in this, considering that it involves time and pitch stretching. I'm just curious to know exactly how well it works in other DAWs, i.e., is it flawless?
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southpaw3473
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 13:18:40
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I have requested it for a long time as well. For me, in the old analog tape days, I used it to bring acoustic instruments in tune with other tracks. Bagpipes, bombards, fixed tone flutes and many other instruments are very often not in concert pitch. By altering the tape speed you can bring those into tune.
I used to have a Yamaha AW-4416 digital standalone workstation and it had a vari-speed that simply decreased or increased the sample rate. Change the sample rate/track the pesky instrument/change the sample rate back. Worked like a charm. It was the single biggest thing I missed when I switched over to Sonar.
For me, Melodyne or other pitch correction often takes some of the unique timbres of exotic acoustic instruments.
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...wicked
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 14:34:40
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☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2014/04/05 12:30:26
I've been clamoring for this for about five versions now. It'll happen eventually, once something passes the ubiquity point it just becomes mandatory. I suspect they're putting it off because it will require a major engine rewrite. But who knows, maybe it'll be a great time to revamp Audiosnap and such.
And yes, agree with the OP, Reaper, as problematic as it is, has a pretty excellent implementation of this. Per project, AND per clip playback rate variation. Mmmm mmmm
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John
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 15:38:08
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southpaw3473
I have requested it for a long time as well. For me, in the old analog tape days, I used it to bring acoustic instruments in tune with other tracks. Bagpipes, bombards, fixed tone flutes and many other instruments are very often not in concert pitch. By altering the tape speed you can bring those into tune.
I used to have a Yamaha AW-4416 digital standalone workstation and it had a vari-speed that simply decreased or increased the sample rate. Change the sample rate/track the pesky instrument/change the sample rate back. Worked like a charm. It was the single biggest thing I missed when I switched over to Sonar.
For me, Melodyne or other pitch correction often takes some of the unique timbres of exotic acoustic instruments.
I'm not sure how that would work in a multi track DAW. All the ones that do vari-speed do it to all the tracks not just one. Perhaps I don't know how it works in other DAWs because I have not use it in any other DAW except to check it out once a long time ago. I also have Sound Forge and it can do it to a track.
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groovey1
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 16:11:23
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I'd like to see this as well. Actually I'd like to see a "vari-speed+" ... combine it with the requests for an easy audio stretch.
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Sacalait
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 16:55:22
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Anderton
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 17:58:33
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Lynn
I would like to have vari-speed, too. There are many creative uses for this other than the obvious. Yet, I can see the challenge in this, considering that it involves time and pitch stretching. I'm just curious to know exactly how well it works in other DAWs, i.e., is it flawless?
No stretching is "flawless." What works best is changing pitch via resampling without preserving length (which of course also changes the timbre), or transposing by only a small amount if you want to preserve length. The more the stretch, the worse it sounds; also, speeding up is far better than slowing down. With speeding up you take stuff out, while with slowing down you have to create audio that wasn't there in the first place. The perceived quality of stretching also depends on the program material. Offline stretching algorithms are much better than real-time ones, and the iZotope one in Sonar is about as good as it gets. zplane also does good stretching algorithms although I'd give a slight edge to iZotope. This is why I detailed the workarounds above. They do the best job of preserving audio quality, which is very important to me, and accomplish the two main uses for vari-speed we did with tape back in the day.
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jimkleban
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 18:32:47
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I would also appreciate this feature... and have requested for quite awhile. Maybe it will happen soon.
Jim
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rodreb
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 19:03:27
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Check out Lindsey Buckingham's use of vari-speed on many of his guitar parts. Awesome!
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Splat 
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 19:12:37
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Sounds like a nice idea. But I want the meat and potatoes features first...!
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Anderton
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 19:38:19
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rodreb
Check out Lindsey Buckingham's use of vari-speed on many of his guitar parts. Awesome!
He also uses "Nashville tuning" to get some of those "jangly" guitar sounds.
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...wicked
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Re: Vari Speed-Why Not?
2014/04/04 20:01:20
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Two words Craig: THE. BEATLES.
I did a slowed down vocal and just dumped the mix into reaper, sped it up, sang to it, then returned it to normal and bounced it back out and brought it back into SONAR. Sounded amazing.
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