Vista and Sonar

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 06:43:03 (permalink)
No it works with ram differently though.

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 06:54:13 (permalink)
hmm just thinking, if the stylus RMX issue is a Sonar issue I wonder if it would work using something like SaviHost and running it separately.

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 07:01:13 (permalink)
To use Vista 64 bit you first need to have full 64 bit drivers for all your gear. Then many plugins simply will not work. If you have the drivers and you don't care about a few plugins working then Vista 64 bit is fine. However at this time Vista 32 bit is also fine. It has all the internals of any Vista plus it will work with nearly all plugins and hardware. Just a lot better then XP.

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biodiode
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 07:07:35 (permalink)
tbh I have been toying with the idea of moving to Vista and will probably go for the 32bit version. After reading this thread all the way through it seems it may cure some stuttering problems I get when playing back a heavy track project (my PC is up to spec though, quad core with 3gb ram and FA-101 interface).

Just trawling the net now to see if the Korg M3 editor is compatible with Vista as I have treated myself to a new workstation/keyboard as my Fatar is slowly biting the dust.

The only thing I would not look forward to is reinstalling Omnisphere :s
post edited by biodiode - 2008/10/05 07:08:17

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 07:11:24 (permalink)
If you get Ultimate you get both in the same box plus if you get the upgrade it will cost less but you can still make a clean install with it. That is not supported by MS yet it can be done easily. It will not cause any issues either.

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 07:24:55 (permalink)
wow John thanks for the the help so far, its making want to press that install button.

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Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 20:41:33 (permalink)
Timur (and anyone else who cares to help),

Still no joy. I ran the DPC Latency checker, and after making "background processes" the priority in Windows (voodoo?), most of the bars on the graph are green, some yellow, no red. Seems to jump around a lot, landing generally at 100us or 1000us. The corelation between this and what I'm hearing in Sonar doesn't seem to exist, however.

I looked at Process Explorer as well, and there isn't anything notable going on there.

I looked at system info and eliminating the redundant IRQs (maybe not necessary in Vista the way it was in XP) doesn't seem like a reasonable battle, as there are several things that are sharing with other things. I have one mod I can make and that is to disable the onboard audio, which I'd prefer not to do, as it is for Windows sounds...but I'll try it, even though it is not enable in Sonar itself.

Any other thoughts that would help identify what is causing this wierd sound? Again, it comes on, sounds bad, then suddenly goes away - all normal for a bit - then it's back - there's no real timable pattern to it either; it just happens when it wants to.

Blades
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Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/05 21:23:40 (permalink)
Yeah - no good. I tried diabling onboard sound (at bios). I removed my old SB card (which was physically installed, but disabled in Windows (never was installed in Vista)). I disabled the onboard NIC (at bios).

Same problems.

Interestingly - I just played for about 5 minutes with no glitches at 4.4ms (which is usally the point at which I can make this happen), then, right as I was about to look at what was different - glitch...grind...gasp...normal...normal...normal...glitch...gl..gll....glit...normal.

Ugh. This must be solvable. I've got pretty standard stuff and a freshly built, un-messed with system.

Blades
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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 05:28:10 (permalink)
I don't know what your system is or what you are referring to here but in the BIOS make you have ACHI mode for your HD SATA subsystem engaged. It wouldn't hurt to mention what MB you have. Also check if HPET is on or not. This is used under Vista.

DPC should be all green. No yellow.

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 10:10:39 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: John

The neat thing is I can go back to XP by simply changing my disks. I can swap out Vista to XP with a mobile rack setup. I lose nothing when I do this. All data is on other drives.

In a way its like it was back in the floppy disk days.


This is how I am planning to set up my VISTA 64 System. I will keep my XP drives and just swap them out if I need to go back to XP 64. Glad to hear it is working good for you John.

Take care,


Bob
Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 11:21:00 (permalink)
I think I found one of the culprits to this.

@John - first: thanks for your input, I'm looking into the things you brought up. I have an ASUS p5b motherboard - no fancy extras.

What I DID find, that seems to have a pretty decent effect on Sonar and also pushed my DPC latency down to almost all green ad mostly under 500us, was that my USB "header" for the extra ports on my board was acting "funny". This is the extra metal slab that goes in the back and connects to the outputs on the motherboard for the extra USB slots - this is NOT an extra USB PCI card - no PCI slot it used by this thing. In a troubleshooting effort, I disconnected my USB 2.0 powered hub from the system where there are three devices - my Behringer BCF2000, my Line6 UX2 (not used in Sonar except as a dongle for the VST or use in standalone Gearbox application), and my Edirol PCR800 Keyboard. To test my VSTi, I needed to plug the KB back into another USB slot, so I sued one of these "built in" ones. The LED on the PCR800 started showing a bunch of data was passing thorugh it (dots light up and display flickering 128/127/128/127 pretty fast). So, on a whim, I said, there must be something funky going on with that, so I shut down, removed that extender and booted back up.

I can still cause the issue to happen, though not as regularly - but when it happens now, it's a little more drone-like and seems to hang around longer for each instance of the problem.

An observation I can make about the DPC graph is that is seems to start out around 550us and over the course of about 20 seconds it will drift down to 200 or so, sometimes lower. Then it starts back up at 550us again. Something cyclical, just not sure what yet.

Blades
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Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 11:48:28 (permalink)
@John: I do not see a place to do anything with HPET in the BIOS. I tried AHCI mode for the hard drive, but Vista nearly immediately blue screens on boot - right after the animated loading bar comes up the system restarts. This may be one of those things that needs to be done during the build of the system to give the opportunity to supply driver disks for the MB controller. I'll look around for what I can find if there is a way to change Vista over to use that mode.

Otherwise, I'm still all ears.

Blades
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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 12:21:00 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Blades

@John: I do not see a place to do anything with HPET in the BIOS. I tried AHCI mode for the hard drive, but Vista nearly immediately blue screens on boot - right after the animated loading bar comes up the system restarts. This may be one of those things that needs to be done during the build of the system to give the opportunity to supply driver disks for the MB controller. I'll look around for what I can find if there is a way to change Vista over to use that mode.

Otherwise, I'm still all ears.

In the DPC latency Gigabyte thread I was a bit upset that I had recommended the Gigabyte board and it was giving really high DPC spikes to many. It was also true on my machine which was just built. The only thing that solved this problem was checking ACHI mode for the SATA controller. I had had it set to IDE. From that point on DPC latency has been as low as the others low readings. No spikes at all. Nothing above 20 or so. Before it was spiking at 1000 and above. This was with XP. Vista wasn't on my system then. After Vista I have had no reason to even look at my DPC latency.

This should work if you have SATA drives. The HPET is the high precision timer and is only used by Vista.

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 12:24:01 (permalink)
OK...had to make rteg change before puting into AHCI mode. I did so, changed mode, sucesffully rebooted.

DPC graph appears about the same - though right at the start, it looked like it was going to be good, it went back to where it was to begin with - pretty much prior to the removal that USB card slot. Sonar performance appears to be about the same - maybe a little worse. There's more of a normal pop and click to the interferance, but we are talking about ONE VSTi and nothing else going on, running at 2.9ms. It doesn't seem to make matter which thing I run, basically everything acts the same way, whether a VSTi (like Sampletank in this case, though I was able to get it to do the same thing with DimLE), or even just a live monitored guitar channel with no effects at all. It takes longer to make it misbehave with nothing plugged, but it will do it eventually.

I think my system should be able to handle a lot more, and it does so in XP. I must be missing something.

Blades
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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 12:46:56 (permalink)
I took a look at your board and it should be ideal for your needs. Certainly it should handle Vista and Sonar with ease. DPC latency is a system timing issue it is death to a DAW but wont be noticed with normal apps. You may need to reinstall Vista. I installed Vista long after my DPC latency was under control. It could be that Vista is more aware of SATA drives then XP is. Changing settings could cause a crash under these conditions with Vista. Be sure your BIOS is set right before reinstalling.

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John
Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 14:51:43 (permalink)
John: As mentioned, I got aroudn the AHCI thing, but it was no help. I JUST installed Vista on this build last week and it is "clean" in terms of only having what I need for audio. Unfortunately, just as the first time I installed Vista (when it originally came out), the performance is not as good as a REALLY dirty XP machine. I'm sure there is some component at fault here. I'm about to switch the BIOS back to IDE mode, boot into Vista and run these same tests there - just to see what happens. . Unfortunately, the time I can spend on this is relatively small doses here and there.

Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 15:05:06 (permalink)
Alright - so I['m safely back in XP and I run the DPC Latency Checker and my range is now from about 5us to 16us. This is opposed to the Vista response of abot 50us to 1100us. Quite a difference for the same hardware - and in the case of the components related to my typical audio stuff, the drivers are the same - except for those which has a Vista specifc driver, and I can't say that I know of any of those on this system.

So...no question the DPClat is lower on MY system in XP. Now whether that is the source of my issues is another question entirely, but all things being not equal sure makes it hard to tell where the issues lie.

I've effectively elimiated every piece of hardware I can do without under Vista on a clean install on a frill-free MB of a popular series/brand with plenty of horsepower to expect better and here I am.

Bummer.

Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 15:10:15 (permalink)
The biggest issue for me right now is that when I try to open a few of my S6 projects in XP under Sonar7, S7 crashes. Cake support has not been able to help pin this down except that it is a "system problem" and not a project problem. These open fine S6 under XP or in S7 under Vista, but not in S7 under XP. Who knows why? I suppose I will just "suffer" with them in S6 until I complete them and move along - but still a drag.

Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 15:13:15 (permalink)
Alright - so I['m safely back in XP and I run the DPC Latency Checker and my range is now from about 5us to 16us. This is opposed to the Vista response of abot 50us to 1100us. Quite a difference for the same hardware - and in the case of the components related to my typical audio stuff, the drivers are the same - except for those which has a Vista specifc driver, and I can't say that I know of any of those on this system.

So...no question the DPClat is lower on MY system in XP. Now whether that is the source of my issues is another question entirely, but all things being not equal sure makes it hard to tell where the issues lie.

I've effectively elimiated every piece of hardware I can do without under Vista on a clean install on a frill-free MB of a popular series/brand with plenty of horsepower to expect better and here I am.

Bummer.

Blades
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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 15:21:40 (permalink)
It is not natural to have a high latency on either XP or Vista. Clearly there is a problem in the Vista install or a MB driver for Vista. One more thing to try is a BIOS update. In the other thread that was the most effective way to fix this in XP at least. Though I can't be sure the thread was dealing solely with XP.

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John
Blades
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 15:34:40 (permalink)
BIOS is updated to the most recent version available. Didn't matter.

Blades
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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/10/06 15:37:20 (permalink)
I am sorry I have no more things to try. Hopefully some one will have an answer. Vista as good as it is is no good under these conditions. I am sorry.

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John
John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/11/04 04:24:45 (permalink)
Microsoft: Data Shows Vista More Secure Than XP

Read about here PC World.

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John
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/11/04 07:26:57 (permalink)

list of stuff
LOSANO
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RE: Vista and Sonar 2008/11/04 08:31:59 (permalink)
they are both made one for each other.

S7PE, YAMAHA DGX 505, LEXICON OMEGA, CUBASE LEE, TASCAM DP-01FX, ALESIS SR-16, DISTORSION DS-1, Qosmio X775 / i5-2430M / 17.3" / 6GB / 640GB-7200, Alesis MultiMix 8USB, Toshiba -. Akai Professional MPK49 Keyboard USB MIDI Controller Regular, M-Audio FireWire Solo Mobile Audio Interface Regular,  MXL 990/MXL 991 Recording Microphone, Fostex Powered Studio Monitor Pair. MPK49.
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