javahut


You will always need an X1d... or an X1.5, or X2... or whatever's next. Else how would Cakewalk stay in business with Sonar?

Well, X1d is implied free update patch. So there is no business other than that serious bugs scares people off.

I hope Cake works a good year after X1c to make X2 for next fall. I don't see how they possibly could release a 2.0 this year - or it would be a disaster as release of X1.

I think X1c will not only contain bug fixes - but serious new features as requested by many.

That is my guess.

rbowser


I suppose it might be interesting to see what X1c has to offer, but really, there's no reasonable way to expect it to transform X1 much beyond what it already is. 

Cakewalk decided, for reasons still mysterious to me, to hand the program over to a new team which had apparently been itching to gut it and make it the most arcane, clumsy piece of software ever unleashed on an unsuspecting public.  They certainly succeeded at doing that. 

Now there are pages and pages of bugs to still fix, I'm sure some will be fixed in the upcoming release - But X1c will still be X1 - love it or hate it.---and I don't understand how anybody who became a Sonar 8.5 power user could ever truthfully say that they love the new incarnation which forces them to click and click and click and buy more and more tutorials to explain the defiantly inscrutable pile of-xxx-- that Cakewalk has become.

--So.  I'll of course take a look at X1c.  I'm just saying I feel it would be foolish to think that a sow's ear will suddenly and magically become a silk purse.  Ya know?

Randy B.

Where did you get this information?

Well...

IMO, the use of a DAW by musicians both good, alleged or pretend musicians has increased but has also evolved in terms of market attributes....such that i would hazard a guess that 4 years ago there were very very few folks using a laptop..and now?.. plenty.

There is a applicable saying that states"if where you are going wont get you there, then stop and change direction."

gutting 8.5.3 and starting from scratch with the UI is exactly the bold move that Sonar needed..

Is it perfect?.. no..
Is it a BETTER foundation for ongoing product development than 8.5.3.. you betcha


and lastly...does anyone HAVE to upgrade?..no

Seems like everyone should be happy..

the release of x1 did not make the older program cease to function for any 8.5.3 "power user" ...
but the release of x1 DID make the program more accessible and understandable for new customers...

I feel we have to upgrade... and I support Cakewalk with yearly upgrades... like it or not.

I did not appreciate the litany of rhetorical questions concluded with a decisive statement regarding happiness.

I hesitated to debate and erased my message before posting... predicting the conversation was headed to the gutter. The rhetorical questions are a dead give away.

Thanks for explaining the situation Karyn.

best regards,
mike

It is time the members started showing Roland how they feel by just not buying their products. 
Cakewalk is a great company with great people and customer support. . on the other hand Roland is a cash fat assembly line with no obvious interest in customer service. If I am mistaken please correct me,given the amount of money I have invested in Roland gear I would like to be wrong. I can't believe how  this marriage with Roland has hurt the excellent reputation of Cakewalk. They need a divorce or the children are going to leave home. 

Beagle

Cakewalk decided, for reasons still mysterious to me, to hand the program over to a new team which had apparently been itching to gut it and make it the most arcane, clumsy piece of software ever unleashed on an unsuspecting public.  They certainly succeeded at doing that. 

Randy B.

Where did you get this information?

The same place I did, he used it and came to the only logical conclusion that could be came to. Does that make sense? Oh well, you get the point.

I know it's been denied by admin that Roland had any hand in working on X1, but like I said before (and the thread got deleted), it sure has some idiosyncrasies of other programming styles that I'm familiar with. I won't mention any specifics because I think that's what got me in trouble before.

But then again, I could be 100% wrong. I usually am right?

It's such a radical change that it's only natural for people to assume the people who have been giving us our tried and true product all these years were influenced greatly by an outside force. Couple that with the Roland merger at roughly the same time, and you have the perfect line of events for a great conspiracy story.

Karyn

and lastly...does anyone HAVE to upgrade?..no Seems like everyone should be happy.. the release of x1 did not make the older program cease to function for any 8.5.3 "power user" ...

 
That's an interesting concept. MS are on Windows 7, soon to be Windows 8 and yet they still produce "fixes" for XP.
 
Each time Cake releases a new version of Sonar, all work on the previous version ceases. So 8.5.3 STILL has all the bugs that people said they wanted fixing in "the new version" and will ALWAYS have them.
 
Do we HAVE to upgrade?

Too True!

+1000

I want to stay with Cakewalk as well. The market is ripe and theirs for the taking if they would only fix the previous release problems and make the X what ever platform stable. Pro tools have really dropped the ball on their Pro Tools Native stability and Steinberg can't even get their web site to work reliably.  Wake up  Cakewalk and grab the market by the whole notes!  Roland prove me wrong and integrate the V studio vs 700  so as to controls sonar as itn did in version 8.5   Improve you customer service in Western Canada. If your people Don't enjoy helping and talking with customers, fire them and hire people that enjoy working to help people ( this part was for Roland, but I double they will  ever see it.) Get the cakewalk guys to teach you how to give excellent customer service.

Where is Cakewalk In this discussion?  One would think they might offer an opinion . Maybe there is a gag order from Roland.  Cakewalk Where are you!!!!!!!!

mike_mccue


The former Director of Product Management moved on in March 2010 to vend DSP to now nearly defunct 3D Gaming franchises like Rock Band.

And we got left with X1.

It's common knowledge.





best regards,
mike

With all due respect that's not the same thing as "handing it over to a completely new team."
 
 

Bub

 

The same place I did, he used it and came to the only logical conclusion that could be came to. Does that make sense? Oh well, you get the point.

I know it's been denied by admin that Roland had any hand in working on X1, but like I said before (and the thread got deleted), it sure has some idiosyncrasies of other programming styles that I'm familiar with. I won't mention any specifics because I think that's what got me in trouble before.

But then again, I could be 100% wrong. I usually am right?

It's such a radical change that it's only natural for people to assume the people who have been giving us our tried and true product all these years were influenced greatly by an outside force. Couple that with the Roland merger at roughly the same time, and you have the perfect line of events for a great conspiracy story.

Again - with all due respect that's nothing but making up stories when you don't want to believe what you've been told.  it's gossip.  find me a reference for a true statement to back up your claim or you're just spreading a made up story.

I don't disagree with you regarding there are things which need to be fixed.  I have seen your videos and I believe you to be truthful in your findings.

but just because "one admin" doesn't experience the same problems you do doesn't mean that cakewalk has a consipiracy to hide problems or to hide the fact that they have a secret outsource team cranking out code just to get product on the shelves and money in their pockets.

Most of the problems you have documented I have never seen either.  and I am probably not the only one.  That doesn't mean you're lying, that doesn't mean you don't have problems with X1.  but it also doesn't mean that me or Brandon (or whoever it was who said that) are trying to cover up problems that we know exist.  it means we have a different experience than what you have.

again -

Keep in mind, we're just visitors here. The admin, they work here. They're going to stick to whatever line they have to to be good corporate citizens and retain their employment. And again, there is a disconnect. They don't know everything that goes on in the company they work for anymore than you and I could in the companies we work for. In other plain words, they don't have all the answers and they aren't always right so don't put so much faith in what the admin here say.

that's saying that he's lying to the public just because he's a cake employee.  well - maybe he is and maybe he isn't.  but you don't have any proof to back that up and I find it very distasteful to spread this stuff since you don't have proof of his deception.

If  Cakewalk admins or reps were to come out here and publicly call you a liar regarding your problems that you are documenting - but they don't have any proof that you're lying - how would YOU feel?  isn't that the same shoe on the other foot?

Beagle

I don't disagree with you regarding there are things which need to be fixed.  I have seen your videos and I believe you to be truthful in your findings.

but just because "one admin" doesn't experience the same problems you do doesn't mean that cakewalk has a consipiracy to hide problems or to hide the fact that they have a secret outsource team cranking out code just to get product on the shelves and money in their pockets.

Most of the problems you have documented I have never seen either.  and I am probably not the only one.  That doesn't mean you're lying, that doesn't mean you don't have problems with X1.  but it also doesn't mean that me or Brandon (or whoever it was who said that) are trying to cover up problems that we know exist.  it means we have a different experience than what you have.

I never mentioned any names. You're assuming an awful lot there for being so fact based today. My post was actually in defense of the admin because I pointed out the fact that they can't possibly know everything. As for conspiracy to hide problems, I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, but there is definitely a lot of denial of certain problems.

again -

Keep in mind, we're just visitors here. The admin, they work here. They're going to stick to whatever line they have to to be good corporate citizens and retain their employment. And again, there is a disconnect. They don't know everything that goes on in the company they work for anymore than you and I could in the companies we work for. In other plain words, they don't have all the answers and they aren't always right so don't put so much faith in what the admin here say.

that's saying that he's lying to the public just because he's a cake employee.

It can be misread as I am accusing someone of lying if you are so inclined to twist it that way. It was not my intention and if someone else would have written that and I read it, I wouldn't have taken it that way.

  well - maybe he is and maybe he isn't.  but you don't have any proof to back that up and I find it very distasteful to spread this stuff since you don't have proof of his deception.

I never said Brandon was lying. I never mentioned a name specifically. I never believed that Brandon was lying to me. Brandon has never been anything but extremely polite to me. I said there is a disconnect and the admin can not possibly know everything that goes on in their company. That's not saying anyone lied.

If we Cakewalk admins or reps were to come out here and publicly call you a liar regarding your problems that you are documenting - but they don't have any proof that you're lying - how would YOU feel?  isn't that the same shoe on the other foot?

I've been told plenty of times that X1 does not exhibit the problems I, and others have documented. I never took that as being called a liar though.

I don't understand why you are so upset? You do realize I agreed with you right?

Let me simplify it down for you since you obviously didn't understand what I was saying.

Folks ... Cakewalk is a corporation and the left hand isn't always going to know what the right hand is doing. Sometimes the left hand is going to say things that aren't in line with the right hand because the two aren't always synced very well. Even if an admin comes on here and says something he doesn't believe, he has to go with what the right hand tells him. Does that mean he's lying? No, it means he's doing what he's told to because that's what the company he works for wants him to do. Does that mean the right hand is lying? No.

I can completely agree with you there.. and in fact your statement it doesnt contradict my primary comment that IMO its the change in the UI that was most needed from the development... clearly there were unwanted side effects..
 
there is no doubt that a stable, realtively bug free product is the goal for users (and assumedly manufacturers too)...unfortunately there is the irrational urge from (insert software company name here) for a new version to be introduced almost every year ..clearly to skim the upgrade fee... or to react to *new* versions by competitors and yet the products are too complex for this to rationally occur without two development teams.. not a good approach IMO
 
Assuming a stable (mostly bug free) product then personally a 24-36mo cycle and a higher upgrade fee would be a happier trade for me
 
cheers
 
 

 
Keni

Mystic38


Well...

IMO, the use of a DAW by musicians both good, alleged or pretend musicians has increased but has also evolved in terms of market attributes....such that i would hazard a guess that 4 years ago there were very very few folks using a laptop..and now?.. plenty.

There is a applicable saying that states"if where you are going wont get you there, then stop and change direction."

gutting 8.5.3 and starting from scratch with the UI is exactly the bold move that Sonar needed..

Is it perfect?.. no..
Is it a BETTER foundation for ongoing product development than 8.5.3.. you betcha


and lastly...does anyone HAVE to upgrade?..no

Seems like everyone should be happy..

the release of x1 did not make the older program cease to function for any 8.5.3 "power user" ...
but the release of x1 DID make the program more accessible and understandable for new customers...

While this thinking is "sound"... It needs to adjust to the thought that some of us are forced to upgrade for FIXES.... I don't need new features near as much as I need things fixed/adjusted and staying with 8.5.3 will never get fixed.... That's the rub!

Keni

Beagle

I'm not really "that upset."  I'm just trying to make a point that you can't make up conspiracy theories regarding what they tell us verses what's really going on without proof.

and for the record I said "Brandon or whoever it was that said that" - I don't KNOW exactly who you're talking about and I thought I left that ambiguous enough.

No problem. :) I have a tendency to get long winded when I think I need to clarify myself. I think it actually makes things worse most of the time when I do that. LOL!

I haven't eaten yet today, gotta go grab some lunch.

Have a good afternoon!