fb.seeker
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/11 19:13:48
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/12 14:15:27
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scook The problem is exclusively with the 64bit version of Pentagon, the 32bit version does not have the problem. Triangle II is a 32bit VST and does not have the simulator module.
So I guess technically if I loaded the 32bit version via BB on my 64bit install it might avoid the problem? I'm assuming that the problematic simulators aren't worth the bother but still... I like to check things out before dismissing them and from what I can tell they are like some kind of IR type situation that would not be easily reproduced and perhaps the patches that employ them are something interesting. Obviously that's just silly OCD stuff and likely not worth the screw around but if this is possible I could use this method to browse all the patches in 32bit mode (via bitbridge) without risking ear/equipment damage AND hear what those patches/simulators do and write down a) which patches include the Valley Sim stuff so I can turn down my headphones, switch to 64bit and change those presets to not include that sim as you suggested and b) see if they are worth using in the future (in which case I'd be sure to load Pentagon in 32 bit mode for the project). Again... that's silly but I do appreciate the heads up. I hate getting ear blasts while browsing patches. It happened with dim pro right after I installed X1 and it was horrendous. Gotta start tossing the Concrete Limiter in the master and engaging it before I do ANY browsing. Cheers. Leadfoot Hey Beepster, have you checked out PSYN II yet? You'll find some nice fat moogy stuff in there too.
Just gathering information these past couple days (I've had meatworld stuff interfering with my DAW time) but I watched a couple vids this morning about PSYNII (there aren't many out there like the others) but I will definitely look for those patches. Thanks. :-)
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scook
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/12 14:39:55
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Beepster So I guess technically if I loaded the 32bit version via BB on my 64bit install it might avoid the problem?
Pentagon is a 32bit DXi, it would require a DXi-to-VST wrapper to get the synth to load via BitBridge. PSYNII is not bad. Still Rapture and Z3TA+2 would be my first choices. A good resource for all of the synths bundled with SONAR is Simon Cann's book Cakewalk Synthesizers
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/12 15:06:53
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Ok, cool. I won't bother with that wacky idea then so that saves some time and brain juice. I'll just toss a heavy limiter on and browse then change/delete as needed. I'll also keep the Anderton Moog patches in mind. If I can get a good emu for cheap into the synths I already intend to learn that seems like it'd be worth it. Cripes... after this thread I've got what... 7-8 synths to dig into? lol I'll freaking do it too. ;-p
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dubdisciple
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/12 16:15:48
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Simon Caan's book is excellent and he is very accesible for questions. The Muzuem patches are great too.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/12 16:21:33
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/13 16:00:57
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Leadfoot Have you tooled around with Pentagon?
+1 for Pentagon, it probably the best synth in Sonar for traditional analog sounds. The "valley issue" only affects a very small portion of patches and is easily fixed by editing and saving those patches. Yiu can always put a limiter on it for safety sake, but for me the problem seemed to be the sound cutting out, not the loud outburst of noise reported by some. The free MiniMouge VA seems to work fine using bitbridge and does the business. Its good quality freeware IMHO.
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Anderton
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/13 23:17:06
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ShellstaX Also Craig Anderton's Minimoog Tribute: Rapture Expansion Pack from the Cakewalk Store. Down from $49 to $9.95 at present.
FWIW the intention was to include a selection of patches that were the types of sound people created on the Minimoog at the time, but also, to generate income for the Bob Moog Foundation. (The waveforms were sampled from a restored Minimoog that Bob signed when he was staying over at my place, so they weren't just any old sawtooth waves  .) I think it really says something about him that the tones created with his instruments have endured almost a half-century and still set the gold standard for synthesized sound...and that the architecture he developed remains the default standard synth routing. Bob was a giant, and the degree to which he shaped music and this industry cannot be underestimated. I would encourage people who enjoy the sounds for which he's responsible to contribute something (anything) to the Bob Moog Foundation. Had it not been for the foundation, his amazing archives would have been lost. They are being restored and the foundation is involved with other worthwhile projects...please check out the link. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
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myconsumerclub
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/13 23:36:39
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So moog huh? I recommend gforce minimonsta from JRR and Monark both but if money is an issue other than the free ones and memory moon mentioned so far there is little one lite free with the workzone issue of beat magazine which also has warmverb from tone 2 and an oberheim model from wok called sam e. I would also mention that Poly KB II is a really cool sounding model of an old analog synth that sounded very moogy and the player for it at JRR (use coupon code "group") is less than $10 normally its like $40. I paid $8.74 after the coupon code, also for $40 you can snag OPX player from sonic projects.
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scook
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/13 23:45:03
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Another nice Oberheim-ish plug-in http://obxd.wordpress.com/ 64bit, hundreds of presets and free.
post edited by scook - 2014/06/13 23:55:51
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dubdisciple
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 00:10:45
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The rapture pack at 9.95 is a steal
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Sanderxpander
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 08:38:21
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Well said, Craig. I'm happy that Moog is back and flourishing, they carry a lot of history for us keyboardists.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 12:04:53
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Anderton
ShellstaX Also Craig Anderton's Minimoog Tribute: Rapture Expansion Pack from the Cakewalk Store. Down from $49 to $9.95 at present.
FWIW the intention was to include a selection of patches that were the types of sound people created on the Minimoog at the time, but also, to generate income for the Bob Moog Foundation. (The waveforms were sampled from a restored Minimoog that Bob signed when he was staying over at my place, so they weren't just any old sawtooth waves .) I think it really says something about him that the tones created with his instruments have endured almost a half-century and still set the gold standard for synthesized sound...and that the architecture he developed remains the default standard synth routing. Bob was a giant, and the degree to which he shaped music and this industry cannot be underestimated. I would encourage people who enjoy the sounds for which he's responsible to contribute something (anything) to the Bob Moog Foundation. Had it not been for the foundation, his amazing archives would have been lost. They are being restored and the foundation is involved with other worthwhile projects...please check out the link. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
I am fortunate to have this tribute pack, and the sounds are FABULOUS. I encourage all to check this out - particularly on sale. Thanks, Craig. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Paul P
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 12:19:59
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As Sanderxpander mentioned, Sound on Sound's Synth Secrets is a great place to start. I know you're strapped for cash, but I can't recommend enough Simon Cann's book that scook recommended Cakewalk Synthesizers: From Presets to Power User, second edition. Simon Cann has a bunch of videos on youtube Noise Sculpture: Simon Cann's Music-Related Videos that you may also find interesting. I read Synth Secrets and Cann's book cover to cover last year, but over the last couple of weeks I've started going through the book page by page while doing everything on my computer as I go along. Now I'm really learning stuff. I started everything with b rock's PSYN-tology and PSYN (I) on Cakewalk's Kinetic (I). PSYN II doesn't work too well on my X2, maybe because it being 32-bit (?). Simon Cann's book starts with Triangle II for the basics, which you can run standalone. This was available free from Cakewalk, but doesn't seem to still be. See the Triangle II download link thread for a possible solution. Whatever you do, expect a very long process. Knowing how to program a synth is nothing compared to actually making good music, as I'm painfully discovering...
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scook
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 12:46:15
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PSYNII has to be native a 64bit plug-in to run in a 64bit host it is DXi.
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Paul P
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 12:47:14
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dubdisciple The rapture pack at 9.95 is a steal
[edit : I was in error, my download did indeed contain most everything, I was just too blind to see. The LFO's still have not been located.] I just downloaded this. However, having first read some posts about it, I was a bit surprised by what was included. For instance, b rock writes, back when the expansion pack was first released : "There are even a handful of user-defined LFOs tossed into the package for good measure. I'm happy to see someone tapping that amazing feature. It's woefully under-utilized. The included videos are ... nice. It's cool that they were added to the expansion pack, and I did enjoy watching them a few times. That's just not something that would/should make or break the deal for anyone. Enjoy them, and consider that to be a bonus." Unless I'm mistaken, the current expansion pack only has programs and multisamples. No LFOs or videos. Are these available somewhere else ? Is this video one of the ones in question ?
post edited by Paul P - 2014/06/14 18:17:28
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 12:54:44
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Hi, guys. I've been swamped with some very important and time consuming (but hopefully life enhancing) paperwork/phone calls/research and preparing for a pile of doctor stuff that can no longer wait so I haven't been able to really post but wanted to thank everyone for all the suggestions and encouragement here. Honestly the world of synths is really quite foreign and intimidating to me but I absolutely must learn these things if I'm ever going to get these ideas rattling around inside my head out and on to "tape". It's really awesome to know so many knowledgeable people here have my back on this because lord knows I need it. If I haven't said it recently you guys rock! I think that for my immediate needs in regards to this particular set of sounds I'm going to try out the Pentagon and attempt to fully understand it and why/how it does what it does and look at the PsynII patches to see if I can find the Moog sounds eluded to as well as attempt to take my experiences with Pentagon and its controls and translate that to the PsynII which looks to be a little more... uh... complex? Virtual (as opposed to looking at a piece of hardware) in its operation? I figure that way I'm learning somewhat how an old school hardware synth might work and how it logically relates to a software synth that can immediately perform a function I need (because the patches are there). Then I may be more confident when I delve into Zeta+, DimPro and Rapture or anything else I may encounter. However... as my financial situation improves I will potentially end up putting the Anderton Moog expansion pack on my list of things to keep an eye out for specials on (sad to say but $10 is actually too much to do right now particularly because I snagged the Concrete Limiter on special which I had been waiting for since I first purchased X1 over two years ago). Not that I'm not interested in exploring the more dedicated Moog wares out there, and I know there are some awesome ones because I've watched a lot of vids showcasing them, but because I already intend to rip DimPro completely apart. It's the only thing, AFAICT, that I currently own that will provide me with all the more realistic sounds I need (even if I have to buy expansions or can figure out how to create my own samples somehow) so having a decent Moog library in something I'll already own/know how to use seems better than paying for and learning another program altogether and/or introducing third party stuff that may not play nice with Sonar or I won't be able to ask questions here about. I also like the idea of the money going toward something more than just some random company's bottom line. So, yeah... awesome thread. It has helped me formulate a plan about not just finding the specific tone I was originally seeking but how I should approach my overall education about synths while still remaining productive and using what I already have. Thanks again. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 12:58:12
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Oops... I thought it was a DimPro pack but it is Rapture. I have to learn that one too anyway as well but it's a little more mysterious to me. Not sure what makes that one unique from the others... but I'll figure it out once I get all this meatworld mayhem dealt with. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 13:03:16
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scook PSYNII has to be native a 64bit plug-in to run in a 64bit host it is DXi.
I'm confused but the only thing I need to know... will it work on my 64bit install of X3? I'm assuming it will. Just don't want to let something simmer in that "grand scheme stew" section of my brain if it won't. Cheers.
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scook
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 13:12:44
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Beepster will it work on my 64bit install of X3?
It works on m machine (Win7 X3e 64bit) but I have not used it in a project for some time.
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 13:15:59
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scook
Beepster will it work on my 64bit install of X3?
It works on m machine (Win7 X3e 64bit) but I have not used it in a project for some time.
Cool. I'll stick with the original plan then. I watched some vids and honestly it looks like a weird synth to learn but as I said... probably good for trying to transfer basic concepts to for educational purposes. Cheers.
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Paul P
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 13:19:37
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PSYN II works, but it's a bit flaky. I used it quite a bit during the past week, and I honestly can't remember what was wrong. Only that I remember telling myself that it wasn't worth pursuing because of the flakes, and I had all the other synths anyway. And PSYN's interface isn't what I'd call attractive...
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Beepster
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 13:33:30
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@Paul... I'm kind of hoping that with the increased stability of X3 that even some of the shakier plugs/instruments won't be as problematic because the host isn't being as weird. Even if there is no real improvement on the behavior of the plugs it's certainly easier to deal with if you are fighting on two fronts (shaky DAW and shaky plugs). Either way it's good to know beforehand there may be some weirdness so I'm not caught off guard but in general when I'm dealing with older stuff I anticipate a bit of weirdness. This is another reason why I generally try to stick with Cake stuff and preferably included content wherever possible. I seem to avoid a lot of seemingly common conflicts this way. Cheers.
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Anderton
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 13:49:41
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Paul P
dubdisciple The rapture pack at 9.95 is a steal
I just downloaded this. However, having first read some posts about it, I was a bit surprised by what was included. For instance, b rock writes, back when the expansion pack was first released : "There are even a handful of user-defined LFOs tossed into the package for good measure. I'm happy to see someone tapping that amazing feature. It's woefully under-utilized. The included videos are ... nice. It's cool that they were added to the expansion pack, and I did enjoy watching them a few times. That's just not something that would/should make or break the deal for anyone. Enjoy them, and consider that to be a bonus." Unless I'm mistaken, the current expansion pack only has programs and multisamples. No LFOs or videos. Are these available somewhere else ? Is this video one of the ones in question ?
Not sure how the Expansion Pack installer works, it may install the LFOs. I'm away from my music computer but can circle back with instructions so you can check whether the LFOs were installed or not. I can also check about the videos, but that is indeed one of them.
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scook
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 14:03:51
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The Craig_Anderton_Minimoog_Tribute_%28Win%29.zip (purchased last year) did not include LFOs. It contains the programs, multisamples and "Minimoog Videos and Examples". While the LFOs may be interesting to have, several other expansion packs I have (Piscis, Second Coming and U120) compete for the 80 available slots.
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Paul P
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 18:14:29
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My apologies to everyone I may have misled with my hasty evaluation. For some reason I didn't see the "Data" folder which has everything that scook describes, I just ran the installer executable. I don't see any LFOs, maybe they're part of a patch ? So all is well at my end. I'm looking forward to exploring this tribute.
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...wicked
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 18:59:10
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b rock Rapture with the (free) Muz3um expansion pack installed.
+1. Pentagon is also, like everyone said, a great sounding synth for this. But Rapture with some packs will get you close. I think I also picked up "Synth Rage" for it during the sale and it has some Moog-esque patches in it.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/14 21:42:13
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OH MY GAWD! I had NO idea all of those free downloads were there for Rapture - THANKS for posting the above link, which has I dunno - 15-20 zip files with Rapture patches. I LOVE these forums, Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Anderton
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/15 00:07:00
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scook The Craig_Anderton_Minimoog_Tribute_%28Win%29.zip (purchased last year) did not include LFOs. It contains the programs, multisamples and "Minimoog Videos and Examples". While the LFOs may be interesting to have, several other expansion packs I have (Piscis, Second Coming and U120) compete for the 80 available slots.
Bummer, some of those LFOs made a big difference in a few patches. Will have to discuss with CW...
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b rock
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Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?
2014/06/15 11:48:23
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Bummer, some of those LFOs made a big difference in a few patches. Will have to discuss with CW... That's always been a difficulty with Rapture. I don't know if Rene realized how much that feature would be exploited. At FiSound, we made the UD-LFO install optional. Some other Expansion Packs just overwrite the 80 slots. Neither solution is perfect, and - as you've mentioned - some presets will become unrecognizable. Sure, there are workarounds. Not exactly transparent to the end-user. If there is ever a Rapture 2 release, this is one of the features that really needs some re-tooling. The entire set of LFOs is scanned at launch, so you would think there'd be a way to flag an appropriate set. But with multiple XP sets installed, an LFO would almost have to be saved within a specific preset itself.
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