This is my new mic. I was working on the base of the mic body today. I hope it will become one that I favor for vocals:
 

Hi AT,
 I have no plans for going into the business of mic production, but I do plan to make a small handful for myself.
 
 The object on the lathe started as a big chunk of aluminum and I decided to video one of the final passes along the outer diameter. I have a "Binder" connector on the way which I will attach to the bottom of this base. It is a large format 7 pin connector with a threaded lock mechanism. It makes for a very reliable plate voltage and heater current connection.
 
 best regards,
mike

Hi Tom,
 I didn't realize that you had been neighbors with Mr. Perlman. I'd love to talk shop with him at a back yard barbque :-). His mics seems like a great choice if you are shopping for a really nice microphone. I especially like the fact that he will make you you a variation on his standard models if you have some special detail that you want to have included. 
 
 best,
mike

Thanks guys for all of the ideas.
 
Beepster- I doing great man, how about you?
Best of luck in finding a decent LDC. I also like to scour and look scour and look scour and look, then decide when it involves a little more money. I wouldn't hesitate to try one of those AT2020s if they had good recommendations . I believe they were primarily aimed at the home studio users and probably sound at least as good or better than some.
 
ChuckC- You make a good point . It is possible to make different mics sound very similar depending on what you do with the signal. I hear you on getting the most you can when it comes to mics. 
 
Makeshift- glad you had good luck with double mics. I was getting almost a combing effect when I tried this. Probably didn't have them close enough. I liked how the result came out on your track. I am seriously going to be trying to perfect this in my studio.
 
So I received my Sterling ST51 in the mail on Saturday , this is the one I got for a little over 30.00 used. It had been in the cold so I made sure it was dry and warm before I decided to give it a try.I was  surprised that it sounded as good as it did. I put it just off center of the sound hole on my acoustic and recorded a few tracks. Then I added a short vocal to get some idea how it would sound. I didn't go to a lot of trouble to sound good on this test with the vox.Hopefully this is a decent representation of vocs and guitar on this mic.
 
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30861263/ST51%20Microphone%20test.wav
 
I might could have added some more space to it with mic placement or an M/S setup. This was close miked. I am really happy with this mic...I'm still not finished looking though.
 
 
 
 

I used to think that you'd use a fairly expensive mic with a fairly expensive preamp and you could do anything.  I found out differently.  After about an hour of using a mic/pre combination that had worked in the past for a particular artist, I finally had to say, "Mind if we stop a few minutes and try a complete take with a different mic?"

I plugged in a GT66 into the same pre and the harsh rasp disappeared.  I don't know if it was the key, the song or the condition of his voice but on that Monday night, we had to change from our normal recording set up.

It seems like you're almost done with your book.
 
;-)

Danny Danzi

Jay Tee 4303
I mentioned the room, and I do respect your knowlege and experience, so no offense taken, but...
 
Statement was, if I can't make an SM58 sound decent, the problem is something other than mic selection, one possibility being room problems.
 
I do have room issues, in certain spots and certain directions, with real quick, noticeable ambiance, especially with LDCs. I also have to sing as far away as two feet, I move a LOT of air at times, and overload my nicer mics. That's with a screen. Good chance its related to the vaulted ceiling config. and/or a floor to ceiling wall of equipment. The stand mount baffle and a remote transport unit made short work of that, but it was an issue and this isn't a gymnasium...I wish!
 
I also had to snaffle out a strange one...got tired of main furnace issues and installed gas fired vent free wall units as backup, and they RING like a no name Chinese cymbal, basically centered on VOX freqs. Pack em like a kick drum and problem solved, but it took a bit to find it after noticing it on playback.
 
Prefer not to comp or EQ on the way in, but sometimes have to apply some light dynamics pro to get nuance and full throat on tape in one take.
 
Different strokes, right?
 
:-)

Jay Tee....glad I didn't offend you as it's never my intention. However, you shouldn't have to sing 2 ft away brother. Back down your mic pre. If you're clipping the mic due to the signal being too hot, you definitely want to cut that down. Next, you're hurting yourself by not compressing lightly going in. It conditions the signal for the better and stops some of what you're getting now. You don't have to use much...but honest when I tell you, once you do it, you'll never go without. You don't need anything spectacular really. Any outboard rack comp will do.
 
Or are you saying you're moving enough air to distort the diaphragm in the mic? If THAT is the case, you Sir are an anomaly. :) LOL! (meant as a compliment and with respect of course) I've never experienced that before with any of my clients in all my years of doing this. Wow! I had a girl that was breaking glasses and a dude that made Pavoroti seem tame...lol....but they never distorted the mic itself. Whew...you must have some power there.
 
But if you haven't, seriously, try backing your mic signal down. Are you using the boost in the pad maybe? If you can, go for an average signal level of -10 dB with a max peak at about -6dB. No hotter, no lower. A little outboard compression using say, a 5:1 ratio removing about -2dB of gain reduction at your hottest signal point should condition your signal perfectly and stop any possible overs from coming into play. I move quite a bit of air myself...so I can relate. For a lil guy, I got some lungs. :) What comes out doesn't sound too good for me, but I got lungs! LOL! What are you using as a mic pre and what is your final input these days? Meaning, what do you record vocals at as far as your mic input signal goes? We gotta get you singing closer to that mic if in fact your room is giving you issues. At 2 ft away, you'll definitely have problems. I wonder if your mic pre is working right? This is definitely strange for sure.
 
-Danny

Process of elim, which isn't the same as proof, says I'm distorting the diaphragm or micS' circuitS. Think its a resonance artifact, just don't see how it could be SPL. I spent 20 years in construction jobsite supervision and was too lazy to climb down and climb up somewhere else, or walk cross the site and back for one sentence, so I learned to project vox thru exhaust ambients of cranes, dozers, and dump trucks. Suspect the room slapback I eliminate with the standmount baffle is part of the bundle, now that you mention it.
 
I use the most gain on a TLM102 thru an ISA 2, three notches coarse and 2 o'clock on the trim, which adds up to 40db if you believe the marks. Highpass off, not getting overs and it takes out something that's hard to get back in post. I try to hold 9 down average, 6 down for peaks, then use up to +3db, to minus 3 for swells and emphasis at mixdown. Part of me feels like a dinosaur, since its all 24 bit, but old habits die hard.
 
I have compared the kinda comping you suggest with straight in, and to my ears its a wash. Vox playback thru a Sonar buss w a T-Racks Opto set as you suggest (nice call!), and cans run thru a dBx 266 set the same way, but Sonar gets it clean, which, I assume, saves me a tad of noise and one DA-AD cycle.
 
Still in config with a mostly new rig, I suspect things will evolve over time with more discerning clients. For now, I enjoy the freedom to let it go all the way, AND to come in to the screen for nuance and special fx. My older sis cut my teeth on Deep Purple and Iron Butterfly in my first decade, and as YOU well know, there is no such thing as loud, without a whisper to compare it to.
 
Max S/N FO EVAH!
\m/

mike_mccue
FWIW, the reason I asked about what happened at the "looking" is because it sounded like a mic farting and I wondered if you considered what it was that caused that sound.

Mike I'm the one with GAS. I don't think it was the mic.

Sorry to have taken the subject slightly off course. The first 6 or so questions of that little questionnaire  were simply intended to get you maybe asking yourself what criteria you generally use when looking for something like a mic. The rest was basically inert fill, even if it is reflective inert fill.
 
The subject was probably a better match for the hardware area of the forum although technique in using a mic and the associated hardware is arguably a technique so maybe I'm still not too far off base.
 
Mike and Danny have raised the importance of proper distance from the mic. Good points all around.
 
After some more homework I finally decided on my next microphone and I ordered one. I'm sure it probably won't be my last. I had a real time of it in deciding. I came around in a circle and then ended back where I had started. I considered many factors in my decision. I ended up in a kind of vanilla place, neither extremely black nor white, but I think it's a good place to be with a small studio and only needing a cardoid. Don't get me wrong the multi pattern mics really had me tempted, but in the end I had to admit that I likely would seldom be using anything but a  tight cardoid pattern as most of my takes use reverb plug-ins and plates. You really don't want to hear what my bedroom sounds like in Bleumen or figure-of-eight and besides I would have needed two multi patterns for some of that work. Don't forget there are plugs that can replicate M/S pretty well.
 
I really liked some of the multi pattern mics though. One mic that really peaked my interest.....so much so that I seriously almost went for it was the SE CS5. For everything the Rode NT2A can do it still doesn't touch the capability of that mic in terms of filters and patterns. The CS5 is the flagship mic from SE as of this writing. If the mic sounds a little brittle in the mids there's a switch for that. If it sounds a little muddy in the lows...yep...you guessed it, there's a switch for that.For the price it still is darned tempting.
 
I really liked the mic Bat mentioned,the KSM44. In truth I lost out on one of those for a little over 2.00 in a bid war. If one of you guys won it I'm happy for you. It wasn't really something I was seriously looking for but in hindsight I wouldn't have needed the multi patterns. I went to the Shure site and sure enough , they have the capability to listen to that mic in the "a" version.Many say it has a very pleasing neutral sound. After listening to that mic I would have to agree. Not overly forward and neutral. A fine mic for sure.
 
 I hate to say it but I had to admit to myself that what I really needed I didn't think I needed. I think I need a colored mic mainly for vox and guitars. If you care to read further, here is my rationale.
 
It has always been easier for me to knock down a bright tone as opposed to trying to bring up a bland neutral tone. If I later decide I want to take the sound that came from a neutral mic it usually never works as well with EQ and sounds more like a fix than an adjustment.Have you ever tried to bring life out in a bass guitar that has almost no mids? OTOH, If I take a sound that might be a few DB high in the bright ranges and later decide that it's too bright, it's not as difficult to tame it.
 
I went to the Audio Technica site and listened to all of their mics and compared each one(on my ATH M-50's). There isn't a huge difference between some of them. The AT4050 and the AT4047 seemed to me to have a tighter sound on louder transients. The mix seemed noticeably tighter on the acoustic guitar sample on both of those mics. I think the guitarist really hit some of his chords too hard for my taste anyways, even with him pounding on the strings those two mics seemed really stable and clear. The AT4040 lost a little edge over the AT4033. I didn't notice as much of a difference on these two mics with vocals, maybe only something slightly brighter happening in the louder passages in certain ranges of the vocal. Not like a night and day difference but you could tell the AT4033 is a little brighter.
 
I didn't think either mic ( AT4040,AT4033) was as tight on louder passages as the AT4050 and AT4047. None of the mics has any noise to speak of. I decided on the AT4033. I know it's regarded as kind of a basic all rounder, but that's the thing with a decent mic. You want it to be there and maybe to help a little bit but it should be more seamless than a thing that jumps out at you.
 
There is a lot of redundancy built into many mic chains and I think it becomes a preference where you might decide to use any given function, for instance if you bought the SE CS5 you probably don't need an EQ . That mic would probably work well going directly into a decent preamp as would the Rode NT2A because you have a selection of filters before going in, more so with the SE CS5. I have never seen so may filters on a mic.Most half decent mics have a High pass or low rol loff switch, but so do most channel strips, once again it's your call. Use the switch on the mic or use the switch on the channel strip. EQ in the channel strip or EQ in software. Compress in software of compress in your strip going in.
 
Here is  the interface I'm using- http://www.presonus.com/uploads/products/1774/downloads/FireStudio_Tube_Owners_Manual_EN.pdf
 
As you can see I have two "super channels" Class "A" around 50db of gain, A built in limiter and an 80hz LF roll off. Also two 12AX7 tubes that can be fed into the signal with a drive control.  I wouldn't mind having a compressor and a hardware EQ in my chain. Impedance control would be nice. Not sure how much I would gain over what I can do ITB.I think there is something to be said for outboard compression and EQ. 
 

my at4033 has been a GREAT mic
 
good choice

McQ turned me on to the idea of a Ribbon mic.
 
I bought the AEA R84. I feel it's best for my voice.
 
I have an AKG 414 that was modded to be transformerless. That only sounds good on females or acoustic guitars.
 
I have an AKG Tube mic. I think it's better for me than the 414 bit not as good as the R84.
 
I have two of the Chinese rip offs. They sound like the 414 to me. 
 
I once tried an SM57 on my voice. YUK!!!!!
 
I used a Shure sumpin' at ohgrant's house once. I liked it. But again the R84 is my go to and shall remain so.

Phantom power can certainly be taxed with high transient loads.  Especially with cheap usb preamps which are unable to supply enough current to each microphone.  This is where a high quality, dedicated preamp with an over-sized power supply is a real bonus.  DC blocking capacitors are unfortunately necessary since the 48v dc is running on the same cable as the AC audio signal.  Otherwise the audio signal would be riding on +48 volts of DC offset and that might be a little, well, unusable.  Most jfet amplifiers which create about 15 volts of DC offset will require these "coupling capacitors" or transformers for the same reason.   
 
Some solid state designs from DPA and Sonodore have their own powering systems.  In DPA's case there is a 130v supply but an unbalanced mic signal output.  This delivers superior SPL rating and clarity to the 48volt versions, but you need a preamp close to the mics.   Sonodore uses their own unique 60v "active" powering systems which needs a special preamp and 4pin XLR connector.  Not unlike a tube microphone. 

With regard to these so called opinions about FET vs Tube mics. I wonder if they are based on any experience with using a tube mic. Ideally it would be experience comparing a tube mic head to head with a nice FET mic. I get the impression that many opinions are just based on reading something somebody said.
 
Take for example; the reviews by owners of both the Neumann's M 149 tube mic and the studio work horse U87 Ai. Those reviews, that reflect actual first hand experience with two prominent examples of the two technologies, that use nearly identical capsules, are qualified as well informed opinion.
 
The phrase "incredible vocal mic" is often used to describe the 149, while the often used phrase "studio workhorse" is meant to imply that the other mic is designed to be affordable enough for a corporation to buy 20 or 30 mics and they will all sound, for better or for worse, the same.
 
In my onion, describing a preference between a tube mic and a FET mic, in the context of vocal recording, as something that is merely an opinion, is a claim that promotes further questions.
 
All it takes it a direct comparison to hear the difference. Any guest I have ever had listen to the two side by side can hear it.
 
That is not to say that some folks may prefer the gnarl of the solid state mic, but everyone can hear the difference on the raw track and I am confident that most vocalists who are actually singing with a full singing voice will instantly appreciate the tube mic. I mention this because, even though it has seemed more like a batting practice, this thread was purportedly introduced to discuss mics and vocals.
 
For the past month, I've been playing and singing in to a pair of LDC Chinese tube mics that were sent over direct from Shanghai. On paper, they are very low grade quality and in hand they were obviously made without any quality control. They were generic and unbranded and didn't enjoy any of the quality control that a brand name distributor might exact. Never the less, the gain staging and tonality exhibits a usefulness that has surprised and impressed me and so I've yet to "improve" them with mods because it as been so much fun to use them just as they showed up. I've been enjoying learning what they can do while leaving the fancy name mics I have sitting in the corner.
 
My initial posting in this thread was an open ended response because I think the effect of the basics of the technology overwhelms the effects of name branding.
 
Anyways... 
 
:-)
 
 
 
 
BTW, if anyone is looking for a great value on a outstanding vocal mic. This one, with the upgraded capsule, is probably the best value on the planet right now. It features an astute combination of cost cutting and premium parts in exactly the most important places and the result is that you get the very best vocal sound for your money. I've got the version with the additional power supply upgrade.
 
This one is the most bang for the buck:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-UM17R-Blackspade-Tube-Mic-w-Upgraded-M7-Thiersch-Capsule-/121232707879?pt=US_Signal_Processors_Rack_Effects&hash=item1c3a085127
 
tell Stephen mike sent ya. ;-)
 
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
 
edited a few spelling mistakes

Hi Tim,
 
I just wanted to mention a few things to you on the tube stuff. It's really personal preference. If I want coloration (which is rare for me going in) I'll do it non-destructively in Sonar for most everything UNLESS I need something specific that must be done going in.
 
With mic's....it's the same old fight like tube amps vs tranny amps. The only right is what's right for an individual. Tube mics have a place, but not everyone likes them and not everyone hears them as "good" or "better". I hear them as "different and dependent on the voice". If I have a client in my studio that likes the sound of our Focusrite pre over our Manley tube pre....who's opinion matters most? Same with a mic. It either sounds good on a voice, or it doesn't. None of the science matters to me really. I see that part as being something people WAY over-think. Something either sounds good or it doesn't. If the sound that doesn't sound quite there yet has some good qualities about it...by all means, mod it and experiment until you get what you want and of course make sure the reason for something not sounding good is due to your personal preference and not an actual problem with a piece of gear/power etc.
 
Not everyone is in love with "warm analog tone" that most times, doesn't accentuate the nice low end or air highs the same way as digital or non-tube gear. I got clients that swear by this old stuff...yet it's always got some sort of noise going on in the back and to me, just sounds dull. Like it just lacks excitement in the upper end. Sort of vintage and 70's. Nothing wrong with that...but my ears prefer a bit more excitement up high and a tight bottom that isn't saturated due to the tube. I mean ok, they may be pushing things a bit...but these are really good engineers with credibility that are pretty known. I just can't imagine me NOT being able to get close to something they swear by without noise.
 
Quick example on the power of today that's a bit off track but....I've used tube amps my entire life for my guitar rig. I'm a die hard tube man because to me, the sound I need comes from 12AX7 tubes. I don't need that output power tube sound. That's old plexi type stuff...and as much as I love Van Halen and tones like that, it's not for me. I like a pre amp that drives the sound so it's more modern and sort of processed sounding drive wise. I like a sound that doesn't have to be so loud, you have hearing damage. And last but not least which is my point here...I now use the Fractal Audio Axe Fx II and cannot tell that it's not 12AX7 driven. The modeling in this thing is so ferocious and realistic, it literally modeled my best amps and tones to the point of picking up every nuance of the tone. I sat here comparing my amps to the tone matching I did of my amps inside it. I cannot tell a difference and actually like the AxeFx a little more. It has a certain something for the better that I can't explain.
 
That said, you use what gets the job done. The problem with tubes (not really a problem, but you'll see what I mean) is nothing in the software world can simulate what they do quite right. The same with tube pre's (although UAD has had some really close alternatives....the new stuff they have out is pretty impressive considering it's plugin) as no plugs I have tried to date sound much like an actual tube, hardware pre. So for sure they have their place along with the mic. Think of it like this Tim....as far as a tube pre and a tube mic at once...when you get the right combination (even if you decided to hybrid with a tube mic, tranny pre....or non-tube mic, tube pre) you use it. Sort of like real amps. Some guys like the front end on a Mesa for their guitar tone but use a different tube poweramp like a Carvin...some use a tranny power amp like me because I don't need output tube power saturation.
 
Mics, pre's....all of it is like building a guitar rig until we get the sound we like that works for us. At the end of the day, 30 of us could say Steve Howe from YES had one of the most abrasive tones of all time.....60 people would chime in and say "it was a great tone". Everything with tone and gear will always be subjective. There is never a right or wrong other than what is right or wrong for an individual user really. If you use some strange combination of things to get the sound you want, you're right where you need to be even if Chris Lord Alge says it sucks. :)
 
-Danny

Good post Tim, and I agree. There are so many different avenues to go down, I'm actually happy to see it happen. The folks at Nuemann should be nervous. Though they sell a very nice mic, it is NOT worth the price they charge. Watch for them to start price dropping. These days, people are emulating everything and some really have the emulations down. They may not be perfect but they are close enough to where the only person that would notice would be the die hard engineer. People forget....half of the stuff WE can hear.....can't be heard by the music buying public or the common folks that could care less if you used a Shure a Bock, a Nuemann or a Blue Bottle.
 
I also think that if a person is in business, they should have a little of everything due to how many different people you will have to process over time. For yourself personally or for myself, if we don't like tubes or old vintage gear, we simply don't buy it and ignore the ones that try to ram their way of thinking down our throats. It always seems to come from older folks that will fight you to the death with either vintage gear, what band was the best of all time, and how Page, Clapton, Beck, Hendrix or BB King should be worshiped as Gods by default and everyone else that YOU or I like, sucks. Kinda like Dave Grohl's last album and how he was sold on analog etc. I think it sounded terrible and wound up getting processed digitally....pfff. There is no "best" of anything other than what YOU personally like as "best".
 
Another thing I always keep in mind when gear shopping or listening to people that supposedly know what their talking about.....big engineers don't impress me. Ever hear some of the sounds the big guys are doing that are NOT the bands that got them where they are? People have to understand....9 out of 10 times, you aren't going to fail as an engineer recording/mixing Van Halen, Led Zep, Heart, Adrenaline Mob, Dream Theater or any band with talent. Meaning, you me or just about anyone on this forum with a clue couldn't fail as the engineer with those bands. And if we did, we wouldn't fail any worse than Bob Rock did with Metallica.
 
My point? Metallica sold nearly 6 million copies of that album...it sounded like garbage, people complained about it and the version you get with guitar hero obliterates the actual albums. People don't know if they used tube mics, tube pre's, top of the line gear or total crap. You can chalk it up as "the band called the shots, so that's why it sounded bad" or "Bob Rock was told to forget everything he learned" or "the mastering engineer ruined it" or "the band just wrote some bad songs and should have added guitar solos" LOL!
 
None of it matters. No big wig engineer or producer's opinion matters when a band can sell albums if they record in their bedrooms. That also means opinions REALLY become like a-holes and everyone has one. Do you really think you or I could make Pink Floyd sound bad to where we affect their sales? LOL! See my point? A great band will still shine no matter what gear they use. They shine even more when their die-hard followers buy up anything they put out. So....the advice you get from people...myself included....can be useless and worthless until YOU yourself can experience things for yourself in your realm. Tube, no tube, vintage, modern, use what works for you brother and embrace the new technology IF you like how it sounds as well as what it does. To me, that will always be the bottom line. :)
 
-Danny