RLD

Jim Roseberry

Regarding tools, I'm using the Smart Tool (and the rest are available in the upper left corner of the Control bar).

I found I don't even need the tool module.
Just hit "T" or push the mouse wheel and it appears.
I actually have empty space in my Control Bar.

What does that mean?

That you are happy you have wasted screen display space?

I don't get it.

best regards,
mike

Jim Roseberry

Also you obviously have a widescreen as you have more modules open in the Control View... or is that all available? ;-) I've got (in order left to right filling the screen width) Snap/Transport/Mix/Loop/Markers/Screenshot/Performance... I can easily live without the others... and unless I get the hang of the screenshots (and bugs fixed) I can lose that module as well... Oh, and with the help of benstats upcoming X1 Helper util, I remove the multidock from the screen completely as well as go into full screen mode to remove the title bar.... Even on widescreen monitors... All I've seen are 1920x1080 and at that resolution I can often not get enough tracks on screen simultaneously that are needed... So while the widescreens help with many issues, resolution is still a major factor for me.... I've thought about a new screen for a long time and realize that tho I like all the new HD screens, the ones I've seen are all limited at 1920/1080... There may be some very high-end screens (really out of my reach as I can't even manage the cash for a cheap widescreen)... But I haven't seen these yet... And where are your tools? Ah, yes, they're all in hiding... Very pretty but not a work environment for me... I need my tools where I can see them even at the cost of a "not-pretty" screen...

 
Hi Keni,
 
I run a 28" monitor at 1920x1200 resolution
I'm sure that helps...
I don't necessarily need to see all tracks in a given project simultaneously...
Just the ones I'm currently recording/editing
Folders help keep vertical track space in check.
 
Regarding tools, I'm using the Smart Tool (and the rest are available in the upper left corner of the Control bar).

Hi Jim...

I'm sure the large monitor helps a lot... but as I mentioned in my previous, even on large screens the available data height remains an issue.

Just as widescreens help to see more time in programs such as Sonar, I frequently need to span all my tracks observing related data and actions... when recording, there's not much to do once mics and such gear is in place... just assign your inputs and press record.... Watching them for problems (as they do 'sometimes' arise) is another... and when tracking 16 or more inputs at once, the height is an immediate issue....

As it is also an issue when mixing... That's part of the reason why analog boards are still so much in demand... Everything is immediately visible and accessible all the time...

...and in the PRV (where I spend a lot of my time for my own projects) I find the small views hard to work in and prefer it to be full screen... Most of the time...

Keep Rockin' no matter what goes on here! ;-)

Mike... It's amazing how many of these issues we seem to agree upon...

Mike, all I'm saying is with the hotkeys and some tips from Brandon, I am able to decrease the number of modules I need in my Control Bar.
For instance I have no need for the Tool Module as I can call it up with "T" or the mouse wheel, etc.
I don't see it as wasted space as I normally have it hidden and can reveal it at any time with the "C".

I think it's absolutely great that we can both turn off anything we don't need.

I am dismayed that the empty space doesn't collapse and become re-purposed into valuable space that I can put to use with other display tasks.

Same thing with Icons... I can turn them off but I can't get the space back for things I value.

A 2560 x1600 monitor seems desirable but they cost two much for me to simply buy one because Cakewalk decided to expand everything off my screen while leaving a bunch of blank space that I do not value.

My all day workout with X1 literally left me unable to eat dinner.

I'm uploading a video at the moment where I encounter bug after bug back to back while editing a simple 4 bar drum clip.

SONAR is my favorite choice... but it's giving me a migraine.

Anyways, thanks for explaining your point of view.

all the best,
mike

well, for my honest 2 cents- I have no problem with moving the GUI forward-Butas much as feel X!a is going to be OK for me once I figure things out for my workflow-I do wish they would put the " user can customize" stuff back in-I do miss it-so far anyway.

I think its reasonable to assume many never took the time to customize the heck out of 8.5.3, and perhaps still have not fully appreciated just how powerful that was - AND very uncluttered. These would be the ones still insisting over, and over, and over, and over that some of us need to learn the "new way" which "we'll love if we just get used to it". No. You actually have to compare the two (with 8.5 customized) in great detail - and then you have a position to defend if you still think X1 is faster - and I want to see some substantiated detailed claims there since I really have not seen one yet. After the time I have put into X1 working in its limiting paradigm, I am firmly convinced the removal of customizations and removing many track controls to the inspector has produced a less capable product in terms of how much one can get done in a given amount of time. The new features (all just revisions of things from 8.5 excepting pro channel) in no way offset this. Not to mention the lost ideas as creativity gives way to drudgery and molasses trying to get things done that used to be fast.

Its obvious in most of my posts that I lean strongly on one side of this issue, but truth is, both sides of the clutter argument are correct. Many of us want and actually need the possibility of all those controls all over the track headers, toolbars, in the PRV, etc. to work as fast as possible, but new users or those who just want a very simple GUI should be able to have that. So what is the answer so that no one type of user loses out? Do we have to choose a rigid path forward that leaves some behind? I don't think so. We can have our Cake and eat it too - and here is my three part solution to do that:

1. Bring back or even improve upon full customizations - that means customizable toolbars, menus, subviews, Full custom color support (yes every single GUI element otherwise what is the point?), a couple choices of button and icon size (for the giant range of monitor resolutions in use out there).
2. Ship the product with pre-made GUI 'presets' for each type of user. Also improve the ease of setting up customizations and put out some videos or help files to get that power into the hands of the masses (seems many are afraid of the customizations or just lazy to me). This solves the problem once and for all instead of making everyone compromise.
3. Make things consistent again. The removal of clutter for visual sake has left many inconsistencies: synth rack( inconsistent control set and appearance when floating vs. not floating). Multidock cannot dock all windows. Snap dialog was destroyed and its contents spread out into two unrelated views.  Many track controls were moved into inspector where you cannot access with keyboard. Etc, Etc. The idea is consistency, not half and half in each view.

Jim, I hope you understand that I can be happy that your happy and still feel the way I do.

I'm thinking you do... or can etc.

One things for sure... I don't look at other peoples set ups and judge what they do... I'm just speaking about how I like to work.

Goodness, I worked with several other dock style programs today... and I just prefer the old shuffling windows trick. The smaller everything just drives me nuts!

It was a revolutionary development for the computer kids to invent windows that shuffle 25? years ago.

It was a metaphor for my real paper based desk.

I see docking as a decorated return to DOS.

It's just not for me.

I know you'll do your best on my next call... but I'm wondering if it will even be possible to run 8.5 in a few years.

Anyways, thanks for your comments.

all the best,
mike

yorolpal


Mike...and I swear I'm not being perjorative or snarky here... because I've just been thinking you've been being hyperbolic on occasion for emphasis...but if working with X1 has truthfully made you unable to eat, I don't think that's a problem that Cakewalk...or your pals here on the forum can address.  In several of your posts you've alluded to "being sick" or (I'm paraphrasing here) "wanting to vomit".  I thought you were kidding.  Geeze, ol pal don't let it get that bad.  I don't think any DAW (or software...heck most anything) is worth degrading your health or well being.  If you ARE just being hyperbolic, please forgive me and go right ahead...I do the same thing all the time.  But if you're actually in distress, maybe X1 is really not for you.  Now, do me a favor, go have a sandwich will ya?

I'm beginning to think he might be yanking our chains.

Crg

yorolpal


Mike...and I swear I'm not being perjorative or snarky here... because I've just been thinking you've been being hyperbolic on occasion for emphasis...but if working with X1 has truthfully made you unable to eat, I don't think that's a problem that Cakewalk...or your pals here on the forum can address.  In several of your posts you've alluded to "being sick" or (I'm paraphrasing here) "wanting to vomit".  I thought you were kidding.  Geeze, ol pal don't let it get that bad.  I don't think any DAW (or software...heck most anything) is worth degrading your health or well being.  If you ARE just being hyperbolic, please forgive me and go right ahead...I do the same thing all the time.  But if you're actually in distress, maybe X1 is really not for you.  Now, do me a favor, go have a sandwich will ya?

I'm beginning to think he might be yanking our chains.

I posted a video last night... I do take my my art making tools seriously... I feel like someone just wrote me letter and said my favorite music tool will self destruct in 5 years or something similar to that sentiment... I wanted to make some music yesterday... it didn't happen.

Look for the video and you can see how much fun I had trying to turn 4 bars of midi into a groove clip.

you all are great folks... Thanks for the concern.

best regards,
mike

yorolpal


Where did you post it?  On your (Tres Cool) site?  I couldn't find it.
 
NEVER MIND>>>Found the post!

Can you provide a url?  Now I'm curious.

NEVER MIND>>>Found the post! 

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2189570

I can't view the video at the moment, but from what I'm readying on the video thread, I'm starting to experience some digestive distress myself...

yorolpal


Mike...and I swear I'm not being perjorative or snarky here... because I've just been thinking you've been being hyperbolic on occasion for emphasis...but if working with X1 has truthfully made you unable to eat, I don't think that's a problem that Cakewalk...or your pals here on the forum can address.  In several of your posts you've alluded to "being sick" or (I'm paraphrasing here) "wanting to vomit".  I thought you were kidding.  Geeze, ol pal don't let it get that bad.  I don't think any DAW (or software...heck most anything) is worth degrading your health or well being.  If you ARE just being hyperbolic, please forgive me and go right ahead...I do the same thing all the time.  But if you're actually in distress, maybe X1 is really not for you.  Now, do me a favor, go have a sandwich will ya?

Hi 'Ol' Pal....

You may be missing the issue here... as I too am in a similar predicament... when one is forced into unpleasant situations (as you know there can be many reasons we're forced to upgrade) and we must use it all day long.... this is not a hobby! It tears at one all day long and often thru the night...

For some of us, our passion alone screams out for corrections and fixes tho we may try to hold ourselves back from ultimate frustration... ;-)

My life sucks.... and I have no excuse for that other than the two primary reasons.... I don't always make good choices and as John Lennon put it "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"...

The fact that my only personal salvation in life is this piece of software leaves me extremely vulnerable to problems with it causing overwhelming grief in my life...

Keni

mike_mccue

I'd like to collapse that wasted space and get back some valuable real estate.

It isn't just the wasted space. Recently someone made a screenshot showing the max number of tracks you can show on a 1080 line screen in one go with X1 (all modules collapsed). It was 16 if you want to show horizontal meters and 32 with all tracks fully minimised.

I checked with PreSonus S1 and you can put 50 minimised tracks on a 1080 line screen. In Cubase if you partially overlap the tracks you can put 59 tracks on a screen! That is nearly double that of Sonar X1.

It would be great if Cakewalk made a serious effort to save screen space and make things smaller when possible. Oh and Nested Folders please!

UnderTow

If you all used mordern screens in HD format you wouldn't perhaps said that is huge..
So WE that use latest technology LED screens should suffer from those that still use CRT? 
try two 24# or up, it wasn't so big after all....
 
Think about it...

Jim Roseberry

If I was stuck with that Layout Jim... which I know I'm not... I have options within SONAR... I'd just go out and shoot myself. That's how different our opinions are on the matter. I worked all day in X1... hit about 20 bugs and at the end of the day, a few minutes ago, I opened 8.5 to observe a behavior there and I was instantly back in a comfortable place... and then I got depressed to think that If I choose to stay in v8.5 that it's doomed to be a very short window... all things considered. If I call you 2 years from now and ask you to set me up with a screaming 8.5 rig... are you going to be in a position to help me? all the very best, mike

 
Hi Mike,
 
I consider you a friend and I certainly value your opinion...
If you call two years from now, I'll build whatever you need.  
I was just trying to show what I (and I suspect others) find appealing about the X1 GUI.
I'm somewhat suprised by the extreme nature of your response.
 
 
Looking back at the screen-shot I posted:
Note that I don't leave the PRV open... nor necessarily that size.
I was just trying to show that I can have the PRV in-place and ready to use (then collapse out of site).
Same with the browser on the right.  I don't have it open when I'm tracking/editing.  
Here's a screen-shot with things collapsed...


that's more realistic for me... Now picture that on a 19" monitor and you'll see the need to remove things such as the closed multidock.... I'd have far less resistance to it if it could be left hidden and simply opened when  button (oh damn... there I go with wanting tools again) that opened whatever views I might have left in multidock... But let's see... I've floated all of them so I already have that without the multidock! I don't like multiple work wondows opened simultaneously... I prefer to have the whole screen for what I'm working on.... this does not include little popups such as the old synth rack or the markers editing windows... it becomes simple for me to live in one window or the other...Realisticaly, that means either theTV or the PRV with occassional visits to CV... Each is only valuable to me when full screen...

If I could afford triple monitors, I'd simply have each opened in it's own monitor and be done with it... ;-)