Helpful ReplyWhich DAW - Poll Result

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jadonx
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/10 15:47:29 (permalink)
I missed the poll, would of voted Studio one...I think the interface is good too after a bit of tweaking with tones.
I think its a natural progression from Sonar 8.5 in looks as I think Sonar X1 changed too much in hindsight.

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#61
zuijlen
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 05:38:24 (permalink)
I missed the poll as well. It's only recently that I heard of Cakewalk's demise, so I'm still evaluating, but it looks like I will be moving to Cubase. 
#62
burgerproduction
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 10:01:43 (permalink)
Guys, I'd like to ask a question as my discount code for Presonus will run out today and the Mixcraft deal runs out end of month.
Which DAW would you recommend for a singer/songwriter who mainly plays acoustic 'real instrument' pieces?
 
To give some context: I'm a published musician who released singles in the UK which aired on radio and TV. I've also got some music in Libraries, and occassionally I do work as a Voice Over/Engineer.
I've gone through many programs over the years, starting with Cool Edit at home and Pro Tools at work, moved onto Sonar, from Ver 3 Producer, through Ver 8 Studio and finally the latest versions of Studio and Platinum, as well as Projects 5.
I've also got a lot of high grade VSTs such as BFD (which I love) Trilogy (still better than other bass VSTs), 3 Native Instrument Pianos (I love the Gentleman), plus all the various programs that came with Sonar over the years.
I've got Izotope audio cleaning plugins and all the Sonar ones over the years.
 
My question is, is it worth buying into a high end deal for Presonus or Mixcraft or any of the others if I mainly work with the VSTs which are not locked to Sonar?
The sound editing tools that come with Presonus seem good (I've demo'ed them) but I'm not sure if I need the synths (I have Dimensions and apture etc..). Mixcraft might be a good fit, but is it good enough for Mastering? Sampletude looks huge, but do I need the bloatware?
 
Perhaps Reaper is the best bet?
 
Any views appreciated.

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#63
Dickie Fredericks
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 10:09:54 (permalink)
Cubase LOL

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#64
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 11:54:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby burgerproduction 2018/01/11 12:25:15
burgerproduction
Guys, I'd like to ask a question as my discount code for Presonus will run out today and the Mixcraft deal runs out end of month.
Which DAW would you recommend for a singer/songwriter who mainly plays acoustic 'real instrument' pieces?
 .......
 My question is, is it worth buying into a high end deal for Presonus or Mixcraft or any of the others if I mainly work with the VSTs which are not locked to Sonar?
......
Perhaps Reaper is the best bet?
 
Any views appreciated.

I would've said Studio One Pro first. I have both S1 and Reaper. Reaper is an amazing DAW, but it takes a lot more effort to get your head around it. I still get frustrated and close it up and go back to S1. (I realize everyone is different and I'm a bit of a dolt). In the long run Reaper will do everything you need, and will be cheaper. IMO, Studio One will get you up and running faster - especially if you don't use MIDI.

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#65
burgerproduction
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 12:30:50 (permalink)
Brando
 ...especially if you don't use MIDI.



I use virtual instruments, playing via MIDI input keyboard. Will that be a problem in S1?
post edited by burgerproduction - 2018/01/11 13:08:21

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#66
musichoo
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 16:40:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby burgerproduction 2018/01/11 17:39:27
I had just finished a huge project for children music with midi arrangement and vocals using S1 on 30 songs, Sonar on 7 and Reason 2. S1 is the easiest and fastest daw among these 3. Midi is effective And fast. The project page was brilliant for mastering . I had input 10 songs in a project page with each song an instance of waves ssl, ik eq 324 and Ozone 8. Bounce all 10 songs togather and export them at an instant.

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#67
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 17:11:26 (permalink)
Brando
 ...especially if you don't use MIDI.


burgerproduction
I use virtual instruments, playing via MIDI input keyboard. Will that be a problem in S1?


Studio One is fine for MIDI and virtual instruments, better than Sonar imho. The demo lasts 30 days.
#68
Brando
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 18:56:06 (permalink)
CakeAlexSHere
Studio One is fine for MIDI and virtual instruments, better than Sonar imho.

That's a very subjective opinion. It's different than any other daw I have used/tried. No event list, no notation editor. Way more limited tools (no mfx). I also have notion. Not much difference between rewiring notion in sonar and using it in s1. Not the same as having a notation editor.
But yes you can record midi using soft synths, and yes it works. "Bugs" like deselecting input select, challenging multi output vsti's setup are all well below the maturity of sonar. Not saying that to slog on S1 that I actually quite like. But it's no Sonar. Much depends on the OP's needs. From what he described, I agree S1 should be a good fit.

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#69
batsbrew
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 19:05:25 (permalink)
musichoo
I had just finished a huge project for children music with midi arrangement and vocals using S1 on 30 songs, Sonar on 7 and Reason 2. S1 is the easiest and fastest daw among these 3. Midi is effective And fast. The project page was brilliant for mastering . I had input 10 songs in a project page with each song an instance of waves ssl, ik eq 324 and Ozone 8. Bounce all 10 songs togather and export them at an instant.

this sounds promising.

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#70
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 19:21:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby burgerproduction 2018/01/11 20:18:22
burgerproduction
 
 
My question is, is it worth buying into a high end deal for Presonus or Mixcraft or any of the others if I mainly work with the VSTs which are not locked to Sonar?
The sound editing tools that come with Presonus seem good (I've demo'ed them) but I'm not sure if I need the synths (I have Dimensions and apture etc..). Mixcraft might be a good fit, but is it good enough for Mastering? Sampletude looks huge, but do I need the bloatware?
 
 



There is some benefit to keeping Sonar as a way to use both 32 and 64 bit VSTs. I have both Presonus Studio One 3 and Mixcraft Pro 8. Of those two Presonus is more capable for most chores. Not that Mixcraft is a bad program. I simply like SO3 better. 
 
Back to my first comment, many daws are not allowing 32 bit VSTs in their new versions. Ableton 10 is 64 bit only. Cubase is now 64 bit only. I'm not sure about Presonus SO3. I wouldn't be surprised if they have not also gone in the same direction. Something to keep in mind if you have a bunch of 32 bit VSTs. The question is probably more about what you have in your VST collection.
My VST scans show WAY less when only scanning 64bit VSTs. Moving from Sonar will cost me some of my cherished plugins.

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#71
azslow3
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 19:29:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby burgerproduction 2018/01/11 20:18:27
burgerproduction
Perhaps Reaper is the best bet?

Reaper has several unique properties:
* it will never fail authorization/re-installation (after OS updates, hardware changes, stolen computer, etc.). You can even make a portable install on USB stick (unfortunately not all 3d party VSTs support that).
* if something does not work as you like, there is a big chance you can change the behavior in preferences or by extentions
* no bloatware (but there is basic FX plug-ins set, works in any DAW).
* intensive protection against buggy/unstable plug-ins
* project files are text files. Reaper itself has minimal dependency from OS. That means high probability you are able to open your old project files in 10-30 years
* there are 2 programmers which develop it (not sure about the third...), both are proved to be good. They know the code, so there are better chances for optimal implementation then in a "corporate" development environment
 
(** if Sonar projects will ever work in some other DAW, that DAW is going to be Reaper. That possibility is under investigation, so I am not yet sure about it **)
 
After ProTools... Reaper also shows the waveform with applied gain envelope.
 
Consequences:
* no key signature for project, means no automatic pitch adaptation for loops
* no own Control Surfaces, means it is not deep integrated with any controller out of the box
* obviously there are some other features of particular DAWs which are not or not yet available in Reaper. "Absolute must" list should be checked before considering, but that is true for any DAW.
* simplicity, usability and performance oriented interface (no fancy OpenGL 3D animations, no well prepared forced toolbars, menus and the number of options is huge ). High customization confuse new users, some defaults are questionable
 
In general, if prescribed by authors way to create music without learning anything, words like "industry standards" and "designer graphics" have no value, I think Reaper is the best bet for almost any use case.

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#72
burgerproduction
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/11 20:40:56 (permalink)
Thanks everyone. You've all been really, really helpful. 
 
As the weeks roll on, and Sonar keeps on working, I'm feeling less inclined to impulse upgrade. I was all set on Presonus, but I'm now leaning to Reaper. I like the fact it has a no frills price. No fishhook deal offered by them. I foresee a huge learning curve, but....I've done it once, I can do it again.
I must say, I found Presonus really nice to use, but perhaps their Artist version is enough for me, in which case I could just get it bundled with a new soundcard. If I invest the money in Pro I'll be getting a tone of stuff I don't really need.
I like the idea of investing in a smaller company such as Mixcraft, but the bundled synths and offer of Freesound loops turns me off a bit. I admire them for their customer support etc.... I'm just not sure if it will see me right for years to come (like sonar 8 did until SPLAT). I wish them luck though. I admire them.
Finally, Samplitude looks like one massive bundle of stuff I might never touch. I've got audio cleaning software, mastering software....do I really need it? It's a great offer, but it's like buying a mountain of books just because they're cheap....will I ever have time to read them?
 
In truth, SPLAT has really grown on me and I would love to keep using it, so I might just invest in some new drum sounds for Addictive Drums and then get Reaper when I've got more time. (I'm moving house at the mo....time is not good)
It feels kind of ****ty that I'm feeling pressured to buy into other DAWs just because the company I love has stopped development of the DAW I love. So I might just save my cash for toys I would really love to get and hope (& pray) that SPLAT stays stable for at least a few years to come.
 
BTW: Starise point about 32bit VSTs was very relevent. I'll use Trilogy and BFD until it is no longer possible, Sonar lets me, so moving to a DAW that may block them is a bad move in my book. Call me behind the times, but I love my old progs. *Note: I've just checked out the Presonus forums and it does appear to be an issue. You need JBridge, but people are reporting hit and miss results.
 
BBTW: Has anyone else noticed that Samplitude appears to have been hacked and is up online with Keygen. This may be the reason for such a ridiculous deal - product dumping. *Note: I'm not condoning Cracked software. All my stuff is legit and paid for - hence the reason why I don't want to ditch it.
 
post edited by burgerproduction - 2018/01/12 12:12:27

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#73
Kev999
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 00:20:43 (permalink)
35mm
OK for those accusing me of being biased or thinking that my suspicions of DAW vote rigging are a sign of my insanity etc. Here is an image clipped from the graph of poll results during one of the voting patterns that made me suspicious. At the top and the bottom, you see sections of the standard voting pattern which is representative of what the pattern was usually like. Inbetween those you see an unbroken line of loads of S1 votes that come in in a short period during which the view counter on the poll forum thread hardly increases. A similar pattern occurred at the same time of day over a few days during the 12 days of polling.
https://ibb.co/i4OUBb
I think any sensible person would become a tad suspicious when faced with these facts. This is why I suggested that S1 is the most popular choice even if the suspicious votes are removed, however, the margin of its popularity i.e. the number of votes in my view, couldn't be depended on due to the facts I have presented here.

 
Actually I've been surprised and a little suspicious of Studio One's ranking in every poll that I've seen in recent years. It seems to have risen to the top from nowhere in such a short time.

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#74
Jeff Evans
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 01:00:59 (permalink)
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

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#75
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 01:52:59 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.



I picked up the Studio One Pro crossgrade deal last month, and so far I can see nothing wrong it.  I may still pick up Cubase Elements for $99 to have a MIDI editor with notation and a chord track, but as far as a DAW for mixing, I think that you cannot go wrong with S1 for the price.  I am very interested in further learning about the arranger track and the scratchpad. 

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#76
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 03:51:34 (permalink)
Don't forget Notion comes with Studio One for $50 or so.
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 04:30:57 (permalink)
You can buy a Presonus audio card and the Artist version of Studio One will come to you

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#78
azslow3
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 09:37:13 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

After reading/watching/looking at it, I also think that Studio One is a good DAW. Its mastering approach, tight integration with own hardware, simplicity for new comers and overall similarity to Sonar was mentioned many times.
 
But it is not a "standard" like ProTools or Cubase, has no established "distinct flavor" like Ableton or Tracktion, almost closed unlike Reaper, not supported by a monster like Logic and comes from Audio interfaces company with controversial devices support.
I mean I do not see many points to call it "the best" and so I do not find strange that many Sonar users are looking in different directions.
 

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#79
Jeff Evans
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 10:32:04 (permalink)
Sonar was never an industry standard either. In fact far from it. Despite Studio One being so young I predict the user base is far higher already. The age of the industry standard is over. Sonar also never had a distinct flavour either. Just a normal Daw but that is not a disadvantage either. There is plenty to dislike with Ableton too.

The Studio One design team is also pretty removed from the audio interface side of Presonus. They are a bunch of German coders living in Hamburg. Much closer to Cubase in fact than most realise. What they are doing amazingly well though is integrating the software with the amazing hardware side such as the Quantum. A relationship that in fact Sonar never had.

Studio One will never hold you back realising your musical ideas. You just need some good ideas to start with.

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#80
pwalpwal
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 10:54:23 (permalink)
there's no "standard" but rather just "grandfathered" daws, oi reckon

just a sec

#81
Jeff Evans
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 11:27:07 (permalink)
Grandfathers can get old and tired too! I think for audio it is hard to deny that Pro Tools certainly were one of the originators. For midi though the two big guns really started around 1980. And they were Logic and Cubase. Both of which are still with us.

For audio and midi now there are many and they all sound great and there does not seem to be any real leaders now. Just many choices.

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#82
pwalpwal
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 11:33:05 (permalink)
is there anything close to a "standard" daw project file yet? omf seems to be the only really cross-daw format at the mo? is there any impetus to define or implement a standard, or it is it all just commercial competition hoo-har?

just a sec

#83
azslow3
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/12 14:17:12 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Studio One will never hold you back realising your musical ideas. You just need some good ideas to start with.

That can be true for most users, but not for everyone. And that was my only point.
S1 was the first option I have checked, but in my case there was 2 show stoppers:
* it may have wonderful integration with wonderful hardware, but I do not have that hardware any they do not want an integration with other (official answer)
* it is not accessible (while I already used to do some operations without looking at computer/devices using that technology, that is not a real show stopper for me. But it is for people which I try to help)
 
pwalpwal
is there anything close to a "standard" daw project file yet? omf seems to be the only really cross-daw format at the mo? is there any impetus to define or implement a standard, or it is it all just commercial competition hoo-har?

Reaper RPP can be such format (text based, with extensions support). There are several common XML based formats, OMF, MXF, etc. but they are more video oriented. I guess in the DAW world, strong concurrence  with aggressive discount prices prevents good interchange format.

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GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
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#84
35mm
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/13 14:41:42 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

I think many Sonar users agree with you as it seems to be the most popular choice. Most of the DAWs on the market are also very very good but different DAWs suit different people, styles and workflows. Considering how young Studio One is it is very impressive, but it does lack quite a few features at the moment. So it doesn't suit everyone and that's why a lot of Sonar users have gone for other DAWs. At the end of the day, everyone used Sonar differently for different things and there isn't one single DAW that can fill all those gaps. I think Studio One will get much better as it matures and although it doesn't fit my bill right now I will be keeping it updated to see how it develops.

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
#85
abacab
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/13 17:04:26 (permalink)
I will admit that popularity was a key consideration in my selection of Studio One for my main DAW.  Is it perfect?  No, but I expect it to improve.  Popularity means to me that a product will continue to sell well, be continuously developed, and have a large community of support.  Factors that one would hope should offer an opportunity for a lengthy product lifetime. 
 
My DAW selection criteria basically was this:
 
Must be cross-platform.  There were a few other options that were Windows only, but passed on them because I did not want to deal with that limitation again.  IMHO that may have impacted Sonar's marketability and perception.
 
Must have an active community and well supported, and not one of the "other" DAWs.
 
Must be cost effective.  The special crossgrade price was stupid low.
 
Must meet my needs.  I work with MIDI mostly, but have retired my external synths.  S1 appears to do what I need with virtual instruments, and the plugins I have seem to work so far.  I have Overture, but may pick up Notion for the $49 deal.
 
I also have a few other DAW-like programs, but view them more as idea starters.  Not things where I would really want to attempt a project mix down in.  Would really have preferred Sonar lifetime for that, but oh well...

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#86
anydmusic
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/13 19:05:41 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

This of course is just one man's opinion...

Graham
Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD
Cubase 9.5
Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits)
Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport,
IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer
Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates
Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
#87
abacab
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/13 20:40:51 (permalink)
Logic is probably the best, but I don't want to waste money on a Mac! 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#88
Starise
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/15 16:43:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby burgerproduction 2018/01/17 15:53:41
I feel like the guy who lost his wife and went looking for a replacement. I've dated a few new daws but still like the way I could work in Sonar. So far no other has been as easy for me. Admittedly this is because I grew accustomed to how it all worked and I could pull off some amazing things in it really fast.
 
I'm still dating. I have a few girlfriends but no one I plan to marry.....yet.

Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, 
Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface.
 CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 
 
 www.soundcloud.com/starise
 
 
 
Twitter @Rodein
 
#89
burgerproduction
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Re: Which DAW - Poll Result 2018/01/17 16:00:01 (permalink)
I've ummm'ed and ahhhh'ed over all the DAWs; tried them out; but in the end I agree with what Noel said. Unless Gibson are complete c**ts, Sonar should be usable for years to come. I've got Reaper on standby; it works great, and can be activated at any time without the 'hard sell' of an 'offer date'; and I got the latest Sound Forge 12 64bit because it does everything I need it to do to clean up audio recordings - I don't really need the bells and whistles of Pro. Presonus has a great DAW, Mixcraft are great guys, Mixbus....is kind of ok, and Samplitude is just plain enormous.
In the end, I've decided to save my money; not buy into bulk bundles just for the sake of it; and invest my money in some synths and updates that I really want.

Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, Windows 10, HP Laptop, CPU i5, RAM 8GB. Audio interface: Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface with moded drivers. Microphones: Audio-Technica, M-Audio, Behringer, AKG. Pianos: Casio digital, Yamaha B1 upright.  Guitars: Dobro, Tanglewood, Danelectro, Fender. Hats: Fez
Check out my music :
https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
 
#90
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