Helpful ReplyWhy Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback

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cpkoch
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2014/06/26 16:03:53 (permalink)

Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback

Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback ... It can't be because the audio is superior is it? Could it  be some sort of marketing ploy that pulls at the heartstrings of the nostalgia in folks?  

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Ruben
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 16:18:55 (permalink)
Considering the mechanical noise involved in playing a record, it's not that the sound is superior, but analog records have a different sound than digital playback. Personally, I've never stopped playing records, and I enjoy listening to them. Part of the enjoyment may be the tactile experience (and the large images/liner information) but whatever the attraction I'm still buying records when I can and I'll enjoy this vinyl resurgence as long as it lasts.   

  
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Paul P
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 16:20:26 (permalink)
 
This thread surely belongs elsewhere... yesterday I stumbled across this article :
 
      The Work of Reproduction in the Mechanical Aging of an Art :  Listening to noise
 
 "Given the current state of technology, the significance of such noise increases in direct proportion to its avertability. Indeed, technology itself is now ready and willing to aid in this purposeful nonavoidance of noise. Digidesign, for example, offers a "D-Fi Plug-Ins Package" which it describes as "specifically designed for creating grungy, warped, and other weird sounds." Opcode similarly offered "fusion: Vinyl." According to the company, this software "applies flawlessly realistic DSP models of turntable characteristics like platter motor rumble, fidelity and speed (33/45/78), vinyl record surface properties like wear, dust, static, warp, and dirt, and other vintage audio playback system artifacts to individual tracks or entire mixes." We now have some very high-tech means to achieve "lo-fi" ends."
 ...
"Noise thinly and seductively partitions perception and meaning, recognition and understanding. Whether heard as an actual scuffed recording, in a simulated one, or as a conceptual model epitomized by Paul Lansky's Smalltalk, noise is the suggestion of signification beneath a non-signifying agency.  Noise is a style of distance - a distance that can be meaningfully confused or exchanged with location, memory, presence, absence, temporality, and experience. For listeners, the application of noise, whether literally or as a construct, then, represents the activation of the space between them and the object. Conversely, for the composer, it is the control of such activation that matters. The crossing of that distance is a drama all the more beautiful for its lack of a stage."
 
Cheaper to pull out the old turntable and record collection.
 

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 16:39:11 (permalink)
As above, vinyl sounds different.  Not necessarily better, esp. technically, but if you grew up listening to vinyl it is like comfort food.  There are all sorts of imperfections w/ records, of course, from flutter to scratches.  But it still sounds good, if you are used to it.  Not low-fi, just a different.  I would like to say the difference is like that of eating a blackberry I pick in summer out a the farm from one imported from Chile or wherever in the winter.  More real.  But I don't think that is quite right, it ain't that different.
 
There is a clarity in digital you won't find on most vinyl.  I usually spend a day every couple of months capturing some of my old vinyl to digital just for kicks.  And I buy vinyl these days because it is cool and collectible and many have digital downloads you can get, too.  I got the Chemical Bros and it sounds good.  And the Black Angels' first release.  And another local Austin guy, Black Joe Lewis.  That is a real collector's item since the EP is out of print.  But paying a few bucks more helps a small band, esp. when they are selling it themselves and you get to meet them - or whomever gets picked to sell records instead of drink and meet girls ;-)   And most digital systems are way easier to use - you can listen to a random play all day instead of having to get up and switch sides.  But that is not the same as enjoying an album, warts and all, rather than a background item like when I'm writing on a forum.
 
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 19:56:51 (permalink)
I think vinyl only came back because of the loudness war. Now that there is a standard to contain the loudness of digital music, vinyl will fade away.

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konradh
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 20:26:20 (permalink)
Every time you play a record, you wear it out a little more.

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 20:31:30 (permalink)
It's pure nostalgia.
You come from the womb, and you end up crawling back inside it.

For me I hated vinyl and cassettes way before CD's even came out.

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:07:47 (permalink)
I don't think it's entirely due to nostalgia, although that's a factor. I really think Robert got it right suggesting a connection to the loudness war. Vinyl just can't be mastered as hot as a digital recording, so it has to be done more conservatively.
 
That's a big part of why vinyl sounds better - it's not the medium, which is clearly inferior to digital by any conceivable standard. The same can be said about music on DVD, which often sounds better than its CD equivalent. It's not the medium, but the care that went into the mixing and mastering.


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jimkleban
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:26:27 (permalink)
It is a funny thing.... I remember how I hated vinyl in that as soon as you started to play a new record was the day you started to ruin it.... therefore, I remember getting a reel to reel and recording my first listen to an album so that I could at a later date, enjoy the record without the pops and clicks.
 
Then I heard about CDs and my worries about pops and clicks were answered.... they sounded good but the packaging wasn't there....
 
Then I learned about MP3s.... every song ever recorded could fit on my PC... simply AMAZING.... yeah, they didn't sound as good but the amount of music available was amazing.
 
Then, a couple of years ago, I decided to go back to HI FI... I treated our family to a RETRO room where I fitted it with a decent turntable, integrated amp and speakers (and yes, I added a TEAC reel to reel for nostalgia's sake)..... 
 
Started purchased the 180gram vinyl re issues of the old classics and was I a bit disappointed.... the pops were back, etc.  The music sounded good but not GREAT.  So, I decided to research SACD's.  Got an old DVD player that could play SACDs, got the correct connections for my amp and listened to some SACD music.... MAN what a difference... sounded GREAT actually.
 
However, the available material for SACD's was very limited and after about hunting down 10 releases in SACD format (had to import most of them from England or JAPAN), paying $50 to $100 per record, I decided to research HD audio.  More specifically FLAC files.  Stumbled upon HDTRACKs... read what I needed to about how to pull this off, got a cheap dedicated laptop for the retro (now turning modern room) and installed J River media player, purchased some of the classics on HDTRACKs for $15, downloaded them and presto magic, finally found the holy grail of listening nirvana.
 
I learned how to convert DVD Audio to FLAC and am building up my listening library between purchasing FLAC files and DVD Audio new re issues (which run from $20 to about $30 a piece).  I since added a good set of cans with a headphone amp and really have the best listening room that I have ever had since I started enjoying music some 50 years ago. Some of these reissues include both the original mixes and new modern mixes of the same material.  Sometimes the original mix does it for me but other times, the new mix does it for me (AQUALUNG comes to mind where I enjoy the new mix more than the older familiar mix).
 
I will say the trip back to vinyl retro led my to FLAC files and HD audio and I have now abandoned my vinyl idea for good.
 
For those who have not heard a proper FLAC file of a classic LP, do yourself a favor and check this out.
 
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:33:51 (permalink)
cpkoch
Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback ... It can't be because the audio is superior is it? Could it  be some sort of marketing ploy that pulls at the heartstrings of the nostalgia in folks?  


Needles
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ampfixer
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:38:16 (permalink)
Older, analog recording technology was sloppy by today's standards, and that's why I like it. It lacks the precision of modern digital and just sounds more "comfortable". There is no technical reason for my preference. I do know that my enjoyment of digital audio grew substantially once I started to play it back through a 1959 tube Hi-Fi hooked to a set of old 2 way speakers. It delivers the fix with no pops or clicks.

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John T
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:39:58 (permalink)
As I understand it, vinyl records aren't making a comeback in sales terms. There's an emergent niche market for vinyl records that will see off its final days for a while yet, but overall, the decline remains steadily downwards.

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ltb
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:45:13 (permalink)
Here you go, not only vinyl but mono as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdKjMWBZygs
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 21:51:32 (permalink)
My 1st job was working at a recording studio transferring music library music beds from records to 1/4 in tape.
 
I hate records.  I had to make sure there where no pops.  If a record got bad I would put a little distilled water in the grooves so as to lift the dirt out.  I fought with records and vinyl all day long. CDs and digital audio came along and made my life sooo much better.
 
Having said that,  I do miss the warmer sound.  But I'm going to side with Bitfliipper and Robert...It's the mixing and mastering that is different.  The Wow and flutter,  pops and crackels,  I can live without.  If I never play a record again it will be too soon.
 
I did get a big chuckle the 1st time my 22 year old son tried to play a record on a record player.  With a very confused look on his face he turns to me with the arm in his hand and said,  "where do I place this,  where is the beginning??".
It just so hard for me to imagine someone not knowing how a record works.   I am OLD.

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/26 22:08:03 (permalink)
Just Transfer CD to Wav and then into Sonar. Put it through a little compression and turn the treble up a little. For bonus points add izotope Vinyl plugin then save as a FLAC. For experimentation also do a mono version.

Play it to your audiophile friend who likes vinyls, make sure you pretend to play a real record at the same time without any audio coming out of it.

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 00:15:10 (permalink)
One of the reasons I like to transfer albums to digital is the "warmth" of the old format.  But invariably, even if I record hot, they are lower in volume than the latest CD or download.  No problem - just turn up the volume knob.
 
As to scratches - I wouldn't recognize Gary Newman's 1st album w/o the scratches.  "you are in my hearing ...."

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 00:46:04 (permalink)
It's simple... humans are idiots... plunging into global warming, fracking our water supplies... and now... records
 
most blindly go where other point... sheeple!

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#17
Ruben
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 01:08:08 (permalink)
Guitarpima
I think vinyl only came back because of the loudness war.

 
bitflipper
I don't think it's entirely due to nostalgia, although that's a factor. I really think Robert got it right suggesting a connection to the loudness war. Vinyl just can't be mastered as hot as a digital recording, so it has to be done more conservatively.

 
I think that (digital loudness) is a part of it, but mainly in the sense of vinyl users saying "I think my vinyl records sound better than modern CDs", which I believe is what BF is alluding to. I hang out at some forums and lists, and this is what is repeated a lot. There certainly is some nostalgia effect, but there are a lot of newer vinyl listeners who have never used vinyl before (hence little/no nostalgia) who have jumped aboard the vinyl resurgence and enjoy vinyl for the same reasons that I enjoyed records in the 70s.
 
 
Guitarpima
Now that there is a standard to contain the loudness of digital music, vinyl will fade away.

 
Standards for digital loudness aren't really connected to current vinyl usage - to assume that is to not understand why people are buying records. And vinyl never really went away in the first place - there have been lots people like myself playing records all along, and record pressing plants have stayed in business continuously pressing records since the 70s. There are artists from every decade who have released albums on vinyl. In fact, if it's really more connected to the loudness wars as you assume, vinyl may be around as long as there are digital plug-ins available to squash the sound.

  
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Ruben
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 01:08:08 (permalink)
Guitarpima
I think vinyl only came back because of the loudness war.

 
bitflipper
I don't think it's entirely due to nostalgia, although that's a factor. I really think Robert got it right suggesting a connection to the loudness war. Vinyl just can't be mastered as hot as a digital recording, so it has to be done more conservatively.

 
I think that (digital loudness) is a part of it, but mainly in the sense of vinyl users saying "I think my vinyl records sound better than modern CDs", which I believe is what BF is alluding to. I hang out at some forums and lists, and this is what is repeated a lot. There certainly is some nostalgia effect, but there are a lot of newer vinyl listeners who have never used vinyl before (hence little/no nostalgia) who have jumped aboard the vinyl resurgence and enjoy vinyl for the same reasons that I enjoyed records in the 70s.
 
 
Guitarpima
Now that there is a standard to contain the loudness of digital music, vinyl will fade away.

 
Standards for digital loudness aren't really connected to current vinyl usage - to assume that is to not understand why people are buying records. And vinyl never really went away in the first place - there have been lots people like myself playing records all along, and record pressing plants have stayed in business continuously pressing records since the 70s. There are artists from every decade who have released albums on vinyl. In fact, if it's really more connected to the loudness wars as you assume, vinyl may be around as long as there are digital plug-ins available to squash the sound.

  
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TomHelvey
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:12:58 (permalink)
Analog baby. I think vinyl is making a resurgence for the same reason some people still use tube amps and record on 2" tape, it sounds just a little warmer. Yeah, you get pops and scratches and they wear out fast, but they have a sound. Some studios still record on 2" 24 track, then import the audio into the box for mix down, it just sounds better when you do that.

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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:12:56 (permalink)
Analog baby. I think vinyl is making a resurgence for the same reason some people still use tube amps and record on 2" tape, it sounds just a little warmer. Yeah, you get pops and scratches and they wear out fast, but they have a sound. Some studios still record on 2" 24 track, then import the audio into the box for mix down, it just sounds better when you do that.

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TomHelvey
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:12:57 (permalink)
Analog baby. I think vinyl is making a resurgence for the same reason some people still use tube amps and record on 2" tape, it sounds just a little warmer. Yeah, you get pops and scratches and they wear out fast, but they have a sound. Some studios still record on 2" 24 track, then import the audio into the box for mix down, it just sounds better when you do that.

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TomHelvey
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:12:49 (permalink)
Analog baby. I think vinyl is making a resurgence for the same reason some people still use tube amps and record on 2" tape, it sounds just a little warmer. Yeah, you get pops and scratches and they wear out fast, but they have a sound. Some studios still record on 2" 24 track, then import the audio into the box for mix down, it just sounds better when you do that.

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TomHelvey
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:12:57 (permalink)
Analog baby. I think vinyl is making a resurgence for the same reason some people still use tube amps and record on 2" tape, it sounds just a little warmer. Yeah, you get pops and scratches and they wear out fast, but they have a sound. Some studios still record on 2" 24 track, then import the audio into the box for mix down, it just sounds better when you do that.

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#24
TomHelvey
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:13:15 (permalink)
Argh! Sorry about that, the web site hiccuped.

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#25
BJN
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 02:35:37 (permalink)
Perhaps it is because vinyl has more body to it than digital.
Or simply that when we used to buy a record and take it home and listen to it, thats is what you did.
It was an experience and enjoyable one.
It is one that is lost now digital and the loudness war those listening to mp3s are multitasking.
 
That is the difference, vinyl was an experience you listened, that was it. 
So as a medium it might communicate better than digital.
But I'd say you could make digital communicate as well if one went for sound  quality over loudness.
Vinyl was limited but only to keep the lathe in the groove which meant the low end rolled off alot.
When you hear oldies talking about their record collection and the joy it gave it rubs off and younger audiophiles are picking up on the experience of listening which is the vinyl vibe man.
Groovy too!
 

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#26
Eric_171615
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 05:36:28 (permalink)
There is an explanation in this interesting interview (which is biased, of course):
 
youtube.com/watch?v=TZN9mFpp3QQ
 
[You might have to copy and paste it, because I'm not yet allowed to post links.]
#27
Eric_171615
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 05:37:52 (permalink)
There is an explanation in this interesting interview:
 
youtube.com/watch?v=TZN9mFpp3QQ
 
#28
MacFurse
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 07:08:31 (permalink)
My wife read this thread and asked "what is Vinyl".
 
Am I bragging. ha!... Possibly....
 
Cockroaches ate my record collection 15 years ago. At least they were good for something in the end is my lowly opinion..

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#29
Eric_171615
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Re: Why Are Vinyl Records Making a Comeback 2014/06/27 07:23:27 (permalink)
Sorry about the double post, the forum shows an error when I post and publishes my posts without confirming it.
 
Anyway, here are more reasons: Vinyl sounds better than MP3 and "youtube" streaming, the album covers are larger, and CD errors sound worse than scratches on Vinyl. But Neil Young's 192kHz/24 bit "pono" music player will change all that ...
#30
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