Why I think X1 is superior to Studio One v2

Well good for you.  I think I may have a look to make a judgement for myself because there are a lot of things missing or neglected in my home platform as it stands.  I'm looking around to see if there is a better fit.

dupe

I also began with Cake DOS MIDI, jumped on audio at Sonar XL and have skipped few releases.  I have licenses for X1cPE, S1, & R.  I'm really contemplating narrowing my work time.

I just rebuilt my studio DAW and my mobile DAW with fresh installs of Win7/64 and am trying to be intentional about BUs and logical VST/Instrument locations.  I opted to load S1 first just to get a feel for it and increase my knowledge of it (very nice I must say).

Dappa1 - I agree with you to an extent but wonder why a software company that has been at it as long as CW wouldn't be head's and shoulders ahead when it comes to MIDI and Audio as well - it just isn't.  So just because it is first doesn't make it the greatest.  They've done well with the 64 bit transition but with that and the new X1, I'm afraid it has been done at the expense of many would-be complete features and users. Just MHO

I haven't really had much issue whatsoever with the product but I definitely am looking at other options at the moment.  I'll for sure load X1 on these machines (got too many projects) but I may find myself starting new ones in another program - just seems more efficient.

LixiSoft


I have been a CW user since DOS V2, I have bought and used every upgrade since then.  CW HAS LOST IT'S WAY and ABANDONED it's CORE USERS, no problem, CW seeks a new direction, myself and many of the OLD Timers around here are not happy.  If this is the path CW wants to travel....so be it.  Myself and many others chose not to follow their new path.  To ABANDON their core users is a serious business mistake.  Why is PT so successful ?  Because they keep their CORE USERS happy and FIX BUGS, not introduce the latest flavor of the month.  If CW wants a pro app they have to provide STABILITY..........ROCK SOLID STABILITY.  8.5.3 was so close.......what a shame.  Why reinvent the wheel, clean up 8.5.3 and call it SONAR PRO, make it even MORE STABLE, LOCK the code and be done with it.  Then sell X1 to the flavor of the month club, and let the pros that value stability stick with 8.5.3 or whatever they choose to call it, and keep the code current !!

Rant OFF !!

My 2 cents

I just feel a need to respond because believe it or not I agree with your remarks about 853. I am OK with X1-I like it. I love the FX chain and such. Not crazy about the lack of customization-but I'm in. But your point about 853 is well taken. I just have wound up in so many arguments here because I feel that some go overboard bashing CW and X1 for the reasons you say you don't like it.
But, your not bashing anyone or putting CW, or anyone who likes X1 like me, down.
That's the way it should be. You unhappy with them and that's cool too!You made your point well and better than most of the folks here who feel they need to come in to every positive post and ruin it for the resat of us.
Your post does not do that.
I for one thank you for stating your valid reasons and doing it with a bit of class.
 

I have been a CW user since DOS V2, I have bought and used every upgrade since then. CW HAS LOST IT'S WAY and ABANDONED it's CORE USERS, no problem, CW seeks a new direction, myself and many of the OLD Timers around here are not happy. If this is the path CW wants to travel....so be it. Myself and many others chose not to follow their new path. To ABANDON their core users is a serious business mistake. Why is PT so successful ? Because they keep their CORE USERS happy and FIX BUGS, not introduce the latest flavor of the month. If CW wants a pro app they have to provide STABILITY..........ROCK SOLID STABILITY. 8.5.3 was so close.......what a shame. Why reinvent the wheel, clean up 8.5.3 and call it SONAR PRO, make it even MORE STABLE, LOCK the code and be done with it. Then sell X1 to the flavor of the month club, and let the pros that value stability stick with 8.5.3 or whatever they choose to call it, and keep the code current !!

 
 
no disrespect Lixisoft, but you cant really generalize X1's stability. there are quite a few of us in that flavor of the month club that have been with CW for years too. and i find it quite stable. lets be real 8, 8.3, 8.5, 8.5.3 com' on man..

Sonar X1 is the best DAW ever. I'm happy for everyone who uses any program that gets it done for them. I will never switch now - because Cakewalk and Roland are the greatest team in the history of music now. Remember this: at NAMM shows all companies rent a booth except Roland which rents a stadium.

aleef

I have been a CW user since DOS V2, I have bought and used every upgrade since then. CW HAS LOST IT'S WAY and ABANDONED it's CORE USERS, no problem, CW seeks a new direction, myself and many of the OLD Timers around here are not happy. If this is the path CW wants to travel....so be it. Myself and many others chose not to follow their new path. To ABANDON their core users is a serious business mistake. Why is PT so successful ? Because they keep their CORE USERS happy and FIX BUGS, not introduce the latest flavor of the month. If CW wants a pro app they have to provide STABILITY..........ROCK SOLID STABILITY. 8.5.3 was so close.......what a shame. Why reinvent the wheel, clean up 8.5.3 and call it SONAR PRO, make it even MORE STABLE, LOCK the code and be done with it. Then sell X1 to the flavor of the month club, and let the pros that value stability stick with 8.5.3 or whatever they choose to call it, and keep the code current !!

 
 
no disrespect Lixisoft, but you cant really generalize X1's stability. there are quite a few of us in that flavor of the month club that have been with CW for years too. and i find it quite stable. lets be real 8, 8.3, 8.5, 8.5.3 com' on man..

I have no beef with X1c stability.  I think it's a tough engine..  It's lack of follow through with its feature set, ill thought out workflow in certain standard editing operations and the user interface that bugs me.

Remember this: at NAMM shows all companies rent a booth except Roland which rents a stadium.

I can do a puppet show if anybody is interested.

I think that its very easy to find fault with anything if we don't take a broader view of a company's overall history and its sum of accomplishments. 

Perhaps x1 is not everything everyone wants it to be all of the time. Few things in life provide everything that most of us desire with complete and utter satisfaction- especially in the ever changing and fickle world of software and hardware.

Software development is a very meticulous and evolutionary process that requires time and constant reconfiguration. Its a horse race with no clear winner because it is constantly evolving and is, in the end, a matter of personal preference and experience. This is why we don't all have Macs or drive Toyota's.

I like what S1 2 offers, and I may buy it. But I've also invested my time and my hard-earned money into Sonar X1, and I will not abandon it so readily for the newest magic pony that comes walking down the street. [Oh how I do love magic ponies, but all that glitters is not always made of pure gold. In the meanwhile I'll have two horses in my stable.]

No No..anything but the puppet show !!

I've really only used one DAW and that's cake/sonar. That said the current iteration of studio one is an attractive option...if not replacement. We'll see.

It is great that there are so many options. With all this competition, only great things can happen for us DAW users :-)

but wonder why a software company that has been at it as long as CW wouldn't be head's and shoulders ahead when it comes to MIDI and Audio as well - it just isn't. So just because it is first doesn't make it the greatest.

Personally I think its because of all these detours and half finished features that they are not head and shoulders above the rest. Its pretty simple to get it right: pick features to implement, roll them out stable, then improve them until they can't be improved further, and until each feature has enough options but also simplicity and elegance to beat the competition's way of doing it. Instead, Cake rolls many features out either halfway stable or halfway thought through, doesn't always improve them even with all the suggestions that pour in and seems not to be able to take them further in some cases before they get distracted by the next whiz bang feature or plugin. Examples:

1. Color, toolbar, and menu customizations were great features to enhance workflow and productivity - but never got improved with search, drag and drop, or theme presets to make them easy for everyone to use, and then they were all just ripped from the program for no good reason. Now we get the big grey dumbed down GUI you see today.
2. Track layers and automation are both still full of bugs, and neither are quite as developed as they could be, nor as elegant.

Frankly I don't want another plugin or some marketing hype calling a fluffed up GUI "Daw 2.0" - total loss of faith there for me. I am tired of pro channel, mastering plugins, percussion and channel strips, etc. I'll choose my own plugins thank you, from vendors who specialize in plugins! Cakewalk, you make a DAW! Please specialize in that first, and season to taste with that other stuff once the core is nailed down! Have some focus, and roll me out a concise, elegant, robust and tested, powerful and flexible DAW environment with all the fat trimmed off but none of the power of versions past removed (these are not mutually exclusive items even though X1 seems to think so). If all these new DAW companies on the block can spend 2-3 years to make these smooth little programs that are catching so fast in features (in fact Reaper and Studio One are really on CW heels these days) and surpassing CW in some areas- why cannot Cake, who are essentially on version 20ish, bring something to the table to decimate these upstarts?

I still love Cakewalk and all the many years I have spent with them and their products, but seriously - its time to focus on getting the basics refined and modernized - not on more marketing gadgets and such. I actually think focusing on the core program will prove to be MORE marketable in the long run than all these plugins. I'm holding on to see whats in X2, still not using my purchased X1, and next release may be the first since PA9 that I do not upgrade or stay with Cake. Thats just my perspective - nothing here takes away from the many who are enjoying the changes, so please carry on.

PS - I just have to add that one thing I notice about StudioOne is that the features are well thought out. If I could ask one thing from Cake, it would be to stay at the whiteboard and finish dreaming things up, doing mental experiments, fully fleshing out concepts before you write a line of code.

D.

mgh

If all these new DAW companies on the block can spend 2-3 years to make these smooth little programs that are catching so fast in features (in fact Reaper and Studio One are really on CW heels these days) and surpassing CW in some areas- why cannot Cake, who are essentially on version 20ish, bring something to the table to decimate these upstarts?

i think you answered your own question there; there is such a legacy of code in Sonar it would be very hard to do that. It would take a complete break from the past to achieve what StudioOne and others can do; of course there are precedent, such as Cubase going from VST to SX then Cubase 4 and Logic going all Mac from v6; and in the wider world MS Windows from 3.1 to Win95 and then XP to Vista...but these are difficult transitions. 

And that's one of the issues - the upgrade cycles/features implementation.


Sonar followed up Pro Audio 9 as a flagship product in 2001. X1 was the 10th major upgrade since when it got out last year.


Cubase transitioned from VST to SX at roughly the same time (2001-ish, from memory). They've only recently reached version 6. Logic in the meantime went from 5.5 to 9. Pro Tools, from 5.x to 9. And the same with most of the competition.


This means Cakewalk bakes out their products twice as fast as the competition - and has done so systematically for the last 10 years - how can we expect them to ever come up w/ something mature? They have to come up with enough new features (read bells and whistles) every single year to justify a paid upgrade! - no wonder there's no time left to work on the loose ends. It'd be rather hard for them to attract new buyers or to justify a paid upgrade w/ essential fixes like "a new improved audio engine that doesn't glitch".

hellogoodbye

BTW I am still using 8.5. You don't HAVE to get X1, you know, or every new version there is. Some people always want the latest shiny new thing: not clever. I skipped some more versions in the past and I waited for X1 to become mature. I am still waiting... (although I am getting close to buying the X1 upgrade soon... or Studio One... or Reaper...?  )

Yeah, I know. :) But I was thinking about the effect such a relentless upgrade cycle and the way it shifts priorities. I'm glad that I still get little free fixes for another application (remarkably stable) which came out 2 years ago, glad that I don't have to wait until the next paid upgrade for features to (maybe) work as advertised. 


Had that developer opted for an approach similar to Cakewalk, I would have gotten the mandatory 3 patches before all resources were reattributed to development of new plug-ins and more features that'll bring new bugs and leave the old ones as is.