myconsumerclub


Let me give you a scenario and I know you can get it. The guitar player is using amp sims and needs to switch between several tones using them and do so in real time like he would if he was stomping on a pedal for a multi fx unit except these are all tones from diferent amp sims so it isn't possible unless the guitar player is playing on all amp sims simultaneously and then the mixer is controlled in such a way that the amp sim he wishes to play through at anyone time is mixed high while the sims that he wants to not play through are silenced or mixed lower in the mix. This way he can use a foot controller to activate a snapshot to effect the changes in volume while recording and use automation to snap a scene into place so that the end result is as if he had stomped on an fx units footswitch to switch tones. This is a better solution because there is a track for each tone so he can come back later and still retain these tones as a template for recording other tracks or additions to the song. Now ther trails as he switches the mix are still able to fall away naturally in the reverb and delay busses that the now silent track feeds. Much more customization can be done using this approach and a more polished sound is possible in the studio and then we can take the same patches and effects and use it live. Keyboardists already have this power as they just hook up multiple keyboards to feed many diferent modules or plug ins. The bass player would likewise want to utilize this approach as well. Drummers use patches inside BFD and other program but I am not privy to these programs idiosynchacies to know if such measures would be necessary to perform rapid scene changes for them to experience total kit change.

Have you reported the Exclusive Solo bug to Cakewalk? (Exclusive Solo doesn't work when the solo buttons are controlled remotely). This bug is the only thing stopping you from doing what you want. It seems strange to me to try to re-invent the wheel when the only thing stopping you is a small bug.

Reporting the bug is probably the quickest path to a solution for you. If you move quickly enough you might even get lucky and it gets included in the 8.5.2 update. :)

UnderTow

Amazed

I know what you are trying to do I remember your other posts. You will also recall I said this is best done with real hardware. Sonar is not and never has been meant to do this sort of thing.

+1 on this.

-1 on this.

 Sonar is a DAW not a stompbox.

Where in the definition of a Digital Audio Workstation does it say that listening to effects during recording is a bad thing? That was already standard procedure long before digital mixers where invented let alone DAWs.  And where does it state that switching those effects during recording is a bad thing? No where. Please, let's not let preconceptions about work methodology limit the way we view and understand DAWs. That is what this whole thread is about! Workflow!

That said, in this scenario the only issue is a bug and not Sonar's design and/or feature set. In other words, to no one in particular, do suggest ideas but please familiarise yourself with Sonar's feature set first. Sonar can be surprisingly powerful at times with a bit of imagination.

UnderTow

John

true but nowhere else is there a tool that allows a player to use multiple amp sims simultaneously live

No and that is really not what you want done anyway. That is why you are having so much trouble trying to do this. You don't want all those sims going at the same time. What you are after is a sequencing of the sims on command. A Digitech can do that. I have a guitar amp that can switch its mode with foot switches. The Digitech is a sim with tons of patches plus it can create ones. Two foot switches control which patch is in use. The notion that you need all those sims on tracks in order to switch to one is bogus. If its the sound of GR then find one that has a similar sound. 

With the power of current PC's, why not? It will give much more flexibility to edit after recording. Point is, if you have the power, why not use it? It's 2009, we can do amazing things with DAWs. :)

Anyway... I should have responded to all these posts in one go!

UnderTow

mike_mccue


Many of the Guitar Rig patches already emulate multi amp setups...

I guess the topic of discussion is that someone wants to use more than one Amp Sim application while input monitoring a live recording?

Seems like it. Or basically any effect that can be inserted in a Sonar FX bin for any possible live input signal. Why limit it to guitars? Why not use the same trick with vocals?

Well ok, you need to do some smart routing with extra buses bcause you need to route each track/bus with an AMP sim to another bus that also contains the rest of the mix. This way, lets say you have 4 different AMP sims you want to be able to switch. You route the guitar track (which records clean) to 4 buses with amp sims. You route these 4 buses to 4 other buses respectively that are also fed by the rest of your project. Then, you control the solo buttons of those buses from your foot switch and courtesy of Exclusive Solo (once it's fixed), you switch between amp sims with one foot stomp and keep the whole mix running. You could do the same with vocals or any other instrument. (But obviously not at the same time).

This might seem complex but once you set it all up, all you need to do is stomp your foot!

Aaaaanyyyywaaayyyyyyy.... I think we have spent a lot of posts on a feature that really just needs a small bug fix.

UnderTow

Saintom

John

true but nowhere else is there a tool that allows a player to use multiple amp sims simultaneously live

No and that is really not what you want done anyway. . 

Why not? I often record multiple amps from the same player( one time I had 4 amps with 4 mic.s each, 16 tracks each pass and yes all guitar parts were doubled thats 32 tracks for each guitar part), why not do this with amp sims?

last time I recorded a live rock band the guitar player had three amps on stage and one in the back room. I don't see this as a silly request at all.

Tom

He is not trying to record all the sims at the same time as a player live might have more then one amp  hooked up to his guitar but wanting to have sim a being use then sim b and so on. This is very possible with switch boxes and hardware. Or if one wants more then one amp being used a splitter could be used. Some switch boxes have the ability to do both.

This is done all the time live.  The notion that there is not way to do this as the poster maintains is untrue.  It is true that it can't be done in Sonar as described. 

UnderTow

John

It is true that it can't be done in Sonar as described. 

Only because there is a small bug in Exclusive Solo. Otherwise it would be possible. :)

UnderTow

Perhaps but isn't it really being used as a glorified switch box? I don't see the usefulness in this for just about all Sonar users. Then again I am not that great a fan of software amp sims anyway.