miguelito
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 08:33:17
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John T: Yes I have to agree...Trying to make a PC look like a iOS appliance is a step in the wrong direction.
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FastBikerBoy
Forum Host
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 09:13:42
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who knows? Maybe Cakewalk will follow Presonus and call it X One Two i.e. X1 2.
Or perhaps in true muso fashion.... X 1,2 testing testing 1,2 1,2 
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jm24
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 09:16:14
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The "New Sonar X1"
Like The New iPad
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John T
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 09:23:38
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The problem with Windows 8 to me is that it's neither fish nor fowl. Not quite simple and casual enough to beat the iPad at that game, and not as sophisticated and flexible as a proper desktop OS. I think it's going to sell a lot of Macs, put it that way.
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miguelito
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 09:57:27
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My understanding is MS is trying to have a single OS across all of their platforms (phone, tablet, pc). Which in theory is a good idea - the problem, I think, is a phone isn't a PC. I don't call people with my PC (although I can) and I don't record music on my phone (although I can).
It may be that in the long run the merging of technologies will be a good thing but like you say "it's going to sell a lot of macs" is probably the prognosis for the short term. My observation has been that the majority of people don't use the vast majority of the power of a PC...the do email, surf the web, etc and so on. So a tablet works very well for that.
Regards,
Mike A Roseberry racer w/ Win7 Pro (64) fully loaded RME UFX Fireface; Sonar X2; Guitars and amps. Axon 100 MKII, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, Komplete All software latest revision
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John T
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 10:08:49
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The thing about that one-OS-fits-all idea is that it's of no significant benefit to the customer. I can see why it might be an interesting engineering project and stuff. But why should I (or anyone else) care about it?
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miguelito
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 10:15:48
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The goal, as I understand it, is to have the same user interface so that an end user doesn't have to learn different things for differenct devices. Like you, it has absolutely no benefit to me...I'd rather have a PC operating system where nothing is hidden from me. Even Win 7 drives me bonkers with it's obfuscated directory structures.
Mike A Roseberry racer w/ Win7 Pro (64) fully loaded RME UFX Fireface; Sonar X2; Guitars and amps. Axon 100 MKII, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, Komplete All software latest revision
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John T
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 10:35:57
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Thing is, though, they've not done that. It's got the metro interface, and it's got a version of the Win7 interface, and they're both completely different, but a bit compromised and restricted by one another. It's insane, really.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 10:54:56
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FastBikerBoy
who knows? Maybe Cakewalk will follow Presonus and call it X One Two i.e. X1 2.
Or perhaps in true muso fashion.... X 1,2 testing testing 1,2 1,2
I was watching a band set up in our pub the other night, and I don't know who else picked up on it, but the guy setting up the mic's was going "Testes 1-2, Testes 1-2"
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djwayne
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 10:59:33
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chest chest 1, 2 chesting 1,2 chesting chesting...was our favorite.
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jm24
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 11:36:52
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Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha
You guys!
Windows 8 provides us with a new FUI that:
uses BIG space-wasting tiles
is less cluttered than xp and 7 (initially)
adds lots of extra clicks
requires knowing more key commands
has many undocumented features
All the most endearing Sonar X1 attributes!
=====================
The video is interestingly-stupid because:
he was amazed by a nice picture (relevant to what???)
he was comparing using 8 with a mouse to an iPad using a touch screen
from which he presumed MS managers had not provided for such tools
example: the pretty picture is replace with the login screen by pressing excape
=====================
Pads/tablets/phones are everywhere. Having the same interface on a tablet when taking inventory, using the POS computer, supporting customers,.. is WAY time saving for business use. Lower training costs. Less expensive to integrate applications. Fewer entry mistakes.
And because most OS purchases come with new computers w8 sales will be tremendous. Especially because of the cross platform continuity.
I have XP, Vista, and w7 computers in service at my home, and in client's homes and offices. As clients purchase new computers they will soon be getting a choice of 7 and 8, to be followed soon by only 8. At least one hundred million XP and Vista computers will be retired during the
next year. Many will be replaced with 7 based computers. Many with 8 based devices.
But, I expect the continued use of wX, wV, and w7 for many years.
==================
I have installed the X1-64 trial on the w8-64 consumer preview. Works fine. New tile on the Start screen, and new icon on the explorer screen. But the clutter has begun. Yet to learn how to add folders to the start menu and move the icons.
But, It is always something. If its not this its that, if not them its those,....
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John T
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 11:42:07
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Requires knowing more key commands? On a touch screen interface? Go on, what are they?
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Keni
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 11:57:03
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Mod Bod
JesusMics
I thought the Smart Tools was a great way to ****e things up. Took some getting used to, and it does remember editing paths taken in the project, so anything I've been working on, the tool knows what I want to do according to context with in the project.
It sure didn't seem to know when I wanted to tweak a volume envelope or a clip pan envelope last night. Or a clip gain envelope... unless I pressed the automation button on the track. In regards to automation envelopes, I still feel the old way was better. ( An envelope lane would be better still.)
You know I'm with you here for sure... Tho I've gotten used to it and it's "shortcuts", it's still slower than the old system (preferred). Every once in a while it's handy, but not enuf to offset the majority of the time where it's "painful"... Envelope lane? I sure hope not! That's one of my "extreme dislikes" in PT and the likes.... No, no, no.... If they decide this, I hope they make it a user's choice as that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me... Keni
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Keni
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 12:00:07
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FastBikerBoy
stevec
Since we're on the topic, automation is and has been my #1 hope for the next version. I don't totally dislike what's there, but I definitely see room for improvement.
I love the automation as it is but I really really would like to see a popup over ghosted data to make it perfect for me. (Have I mentioned that before...  )
I wouldn't mind some layers rework too.
Any option other than the current two - "Higgledepiggledy" & "Pot luck", for layers sort would be welcomed by me.
Absolutely! I don't love it as it is now, but having the popups would go a long way towards making me more comfortable with it... Keni
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Keni
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 12:08:11
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John T
The thing about that one-OS-fits-all idea is that it's of no significant benefit to the customer. I can see why it might be an interesting engineering project and stuff. But why should I (or anyone else) care about it?
I guess what they need to do (If they haven't already) is to make it user adjustable so that you could make it a robust desktop system or run it as a simple tablet... Then having a unified OS might work.... and give the users a simple way to change between so that if a machine comes configured one way it cas easily be switched to the other (and back)... Keni
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chuckebaby
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 12:30:20
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i can only hope windows will smarten up and put out different versions for their future releases,like windows 9 for pc,windows 9 for touch screen,windows 9 that resembles windows 7.
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Keni
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 12:34:37
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I just watched the video and one thing keeps coming to mind...
I felt this way with XP, then Vista, then Win7 and as the release continues to roll out and more people use it, the methods to circumvent and adjust these many issues comes to the surface.... thru users discovering them and sharing their' discoveries with others...
I'm hoping that's the issue here as well because looking at it is frightening!
I own an iPad and using it has it's nice points, but that's because I don't use it for any 'real' work.... I very quickly tire of all the dragging and flipping which while "pretty" slow down work to an extreme...
I also have a Mac Pro which feels far slower to me (user side as opposed to the machines speed abilities) because of various issues...
So, As I ignored XP, got "stuck" with Vista (which I actually find the easiest of all out now), I'm hoping that MS didn't ignore these issues tho the basic installation sets things up to tour their' latest ideas... and that all these issues can be addressed as we find out "how"...
Keni
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Dave Modisette
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 12:41:30
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Keni
Mod Bod
JesusMics
I thought the Smart Tools was a great way to ****e things up. Took some getting used to, and it does remember editing paths taken in the project, so anything I've been working on, the tool knows what I want to do according to context with in the project.
It sure didn't seem to know when I wanted to tweak a volume envelope or a clip pan envelope last night. Or a clip gain envelope... unless I pressed the automation button on the track. In regards to automation envelopes, I still feel the old way was better. ( An envelope lane would be better still.)
You know I'm with you here for sure... Tho I've gotten used to it and it's "shortcuts", it's still slower than the old system (preferred). Every once in a while it's handy, but not enuf to offset the majority of the time where it's "painful"...
Envelope lane? I sure hope not! That's one of my "extreme dislikes" in PT and the likes.... No, no, no.... If they decide this, I hope they make it a user's choice as that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me...
Keni
I thought I wouldn't like envelope lanes either but Reaper 4 has a nice implementation that allows you to: Not see the envelopes - hidden (like X1) See envelopes in their lanes - resizable. See the envelopes in the audio lane - like the old SONAR way. I thought that was a way to more or less please everybody. (I've got the PT10 trial running - don't really like it at all. Might buy it someday if I need to learn it, but not now.)
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jm24
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 13:39:33
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John T
Requires knowing more key commands? On a touch screen interface? Go on, what are they?
As usual John, you go right to the point with insight and humor. But, I'll bite: The demo was using a non-touch screen interface. And my comments about the video were about how he was not using a keyboard. So far, my experience is similar to his with respect to the changes in location of various bits and pieces. Not easy to find the RUN command. Hence the need to know the Win+R key command. And the mouse can emulate touch commands: grab and fling. Will "X1 too" replace the command bar with ugly metro tiles? Hence adding another layer of clicks? Just grumbling out-loud.
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John T
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 14:12:29
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Be as snippy as you like, your point still doesn't hold up.
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John T
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 14:14:44
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Anyway... I'm very curious to see what will happen with windows 8. It's hard to see what the positive reasons for having it on a desktop or laptop are. I suspect it will do far better on tablets than it will there.
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stevec
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 14:17:33
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Funny... After reading this thread, I don't even want to watch the video.
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Beepster
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 14:32:23
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jm24
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 14:58:41
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John T
Be as snippy as you like, your point still doesn't hold up.
Not snippy. I am coming to understand your seemingly contrary postings actually provide conversational guidance and clarity. Your comment was about the touch screen. And you are correct, no keystrokes to get anywhere. I was addressing the demo's lack of use of a keyboard, and not using the mouse in the fashion of a finger. I cannot find the run command other than using a key combination. Hence the need to know such. I can find the Search box, and entering MSCONFIG, and pressing enter, does immediatly open the MSCONFIG dialog. So prolly the SEARCH box is also the RUN box.
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jbow
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 15:03:20
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I think I'm with this guy on Windows 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMuJTrxuhQ I took a look at that W8 video and I hope I don't have to use it. It looks like MS is going full multimedia. Like you (and I assume everyone else who uses a computer for production or any work) I want it lean and easy to turn off all the fluff and good looking stuff. The first thing I do with any computer is turn off all the "pretty" stuff and system sounds, etc. W8 does nothing for me as far as I can see. I will never use a touchscreen computer (laptop or desktop) because of cervical and thoracic spine problems, I cannot do things that require my arms to be stretched out and or up in front of me for any length of time. I never thought I would consider a MAC and I hope I am not forced to switch both computer platforms and DAWS. It is always something huh? J
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Beepster
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 15:15:33
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They need keep their desktop and touchscreen OSs as completely different entities or at least, as was mentioned earlier, have two different modes to operate in. Frankly I think Win7 is a winner. The only three Windows OSs I've ever thought were usable are 95, XP and 7 (I've never done server work and I wasn't into computers before 95 so I won't speculate on those other platforms). Win8 looks like it's gonna be a disaster and I hope it sinks like a stone so they shake their heads and put out something decent. Fortunately Win 7 Pro is supposed to be supported until 2018 so that's plenty of time for them put down the bong and get down to the business of making something that is intuitive and useable.
post edited by Beepster - 2012/06/08 16:11:28
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jbow
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 16:03:21
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The only three Windows OSs I've ever thought were usable are 95, XP and 7 I totally agree. Perhaps they should call Windows 8... (drum roll please) Windows MEH J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Beepster
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 16:12:15
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How about Windows Plate (of poo)?
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skylightron
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 19:52:02
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They could always have a merger then call it Windows X2
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vintagevibe
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Re:X2 this year?
2012/06/08 21:05:37
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Beepster
The only three Windows OSs I've ever thought were usable are 95, XP and 7
Win95 was a dog compared to Win98. Easier navigation, more stable and far better memory management.
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