Let the learning begin:   http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-feature-focus-tiles-143175

John T


I think I'm with this guy on Windows 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMuJTrxuhQ

We call that a "Usability Cluster Bleep". What a bunch of random, inconsistent, convoluted crap! First we have basic menu hierarchies being arbitrarily reconfigured into ribbons, and now this junk... I never thought I'd say this but: PLEASE BRING BACK BILL GATES!!!! Please.  Boxes and pretty pictures with zero thought to the intuition of a desktop computer user. Seriously, that dood -- who seems to have been around a computer or two -- couldn't figure out how to quit a freakin' application? And the solution was WHAAATTTTT ??!?!?#@HH@!!!>!>!?>>>??? Move your mouse pointer to the top left until some magic icon appears, then drag the magic icon to the bottom of the screen?/?????!?!?!? WHWHHHAHAHAHHEHEHHAAAAHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTT!??!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??
 

Who comes up with this crap, and how the hell did it even make it out of the R&D lab? And who exactly do they think their audience is? Inquiring minds want to know...

Why is it you guys get crazy after watching a review made by a MAC guy comparing w8 using a mouse to an iPad?

I conclude he is just too dumb to know how to use windows.

Mac reference: moving the CD/DVD icon on the desktop to the trash folder to eject the disk is NOT intuitive. It is clever. But it is also STUPID. And one would not know this without reading a manual, or having someone demonstrate.

This guy assumed all kinds of dumb stuff and then blamed windows for his dismay.

Anybody here changed the x1 command bar from the default?

Any body here changed their windows desktop from the default?

Maybe this guy is so used to accepting the way apple does it, he does not appreciate the wonderful configuration options provided by windows.  W8 can be re-made in your image.

http://windows8tabs.com/windows-8-tips-and-tricks-for-desktop-users

It's an interesting thing about Android tablets. There are some pretty good ones. But they're not getting much meaningful market share. iPad still has about 80% of the entire tablet market, which is shocking given the number of Android tablets out there. Remains to be seen whether Windows 8 tablets can avoid that problem. I suspect that the Windows brand and Microsoft's ability to do a unified push on it might help them out.

jm24


Why is it you guys get crazy after watching a review made by a MAC guy comparing w8 using a mouse to an iPad?
 

Because MS is trying to cram ther wrong desktop paradigm down our throats. They want "tablet experience on the desktop". Android tablets and iPads are the logical comparison points. It's not his fault that his DESKTOP MACHINE IS NOT A MOBILE TABLET(!!!!!), and therefore he's stuck w/ a mouse.

I conclude he is just too dumb to know how to use windows.

Go back and watch the first 60 seconds of his experience w/ the OS. He can't figure out how to do anything, so he's staring at the most expensive digital clock that money can buy. Turns out he needs to "drag the screen up"!!! Why?! Why does he need to "drag the screen up" just get to the freaking login screen? What purpose does that serve? What OS does this? Windows 8 does this, that's what OS does this.
 
You know what that is? That's arbitrary complexity for the sake of change. MS is trying to "change the paradigm" by shuffling things around and putting gestures where gestures don't belong and hiding functions in places that should be more immediately accessible. (Hmmm... kinda like turning menus into ribbons.) MS appears to be in over the heads on this one, and they obviously don't have the chops to do what PARC/Apple did 30 years ago.
 
Speaking of which... the GUI desktop has followed the same basic architetcural and interactive model for the last 30 years... whether it's Mac, Windoze 3.1 through 7, Amiga, Atari, OS/2, NexStep, OpenStep, the HP and SUN desktop environments (can't remember the names), and today the Linux desktop variants... and on and on...
 
And those architectural and interactive models have been pretty successful over the 30 years, I might add. So what exactly does MS think they know that PARC/Apple didn't know 30 years ago? What are they trying to do with Windows 8 that can't be accomplished with tried and true 30 year old architetcure and interaction?
 
I see change for change's sake. No more, no less.

Mac reference: moving the CD/DVD icon on the desktop to the trash folder to eject the disk is NOT intuitive. It is clever. But it is also STUPID. And one would not know this without reading a manual, or having someone demonstrate.

Totally bad example. That specific interaction has been around for a very very long time w/ Mac OSes. Drag the floppy to the trash to eject goes back to like 1988. Like I said, maybe 30 years ago that was a head scratcher, but I think 30 years later we're beyond that and motoring along comfortably after generations upon generations of refinement of the same basic UI principles. Windows (7!) has the start menu, mac has the finder. Other than that and some very minor detail, same basic user interaction.

Maybe this guy is so used to accepting the way apple does it, he does not appreciate the wonderful configuration options provided by windows.  W8 can be re-made in your image.

http://windows8tabs.com/windows-8-tips-and-tricks-for-desktop-users

And what I don't get is why I would have to tweak my new Windows 8 operating system at all to make it usable? Think about it... all these comments saying "well, Metro kinda sux, but the good news is you can turn it off." WHHHAAAATT????!!!!! Is that supposed to entice me to "upgrade"? So I can experience the pain firsthand, and then the pleasure of turning off the source of the pain? Think about the absurdity of that.
 
Let's not forget what the role of the OS is here. The OS is simply a vehicle for managing disk space and running applications.
 

Aren't learning curves wonderful?

BTW..what was the thread about in the first place?

I predict the next version will be X2aExpandedx64 just to make it simpler. 

jm24

I installed w8, the pretty picture did not move in the ways I tried with a mouse. So, I pressed escape, and it was gone. Standard keyboard action. My assumption resulted in happiness not a stupid video.

 
Since when is pressing the escape key "standard keyboard action"??? In what universe does Joe Blow Computer User think to himself "I bet pressing the escape key might do what I want on this screen wherein I'm expecting the login text field to be"? I start pressing the escape key as a last ditch effort to get out of the current mode I'm in... Ok, I get it... that initial screen in win 8 doesn't so much represent "you start here, and you go forward by doing such-and-such"... but instead "we're leaving you on this sparse screen with no indication of how to proceed or what to do, and it's up to you to escape from this screen!!!!". It's a puzzle of sorts, and I guess I can appreciate MS trying to raise the collective IQ. Maybe put a Sudoku on that initial screen to round it out. 
 

If he was using a windows tablet he would have assumed to use a standard tablet/phone gesture, and the result would have be joyful.

 
Swiping one screen to get to a secondary password entry screen is not standard behavior on any device I've used. Regardless -- he's not using a tablet or phone. He's using a mouse and expecting to interact with the OS in a way that's intuitive to him... you know, intution gained over 30 years of operating system design and development.
 

He assumed to NOT use the mouse as he would have used a finger. Hence my comment about the erronious comparision of w8 on a desktop and an iPad. He was confused because he ASSUMED incorrectly. I figger he just wanted to diss MS anyway.

 
I'll ask the first time: did you read what you just wrote? Why would he think to use his mouse as if it's a finger? It's not a finger... it's a mouse!!! The mouse has an onscreen pointer associated with it, which is used for selecting, highlighting, and clicking on objects. Multitouch gestures on phones and tablets is a different experience, as it should be.
 
Please... tell me... on a smartphone or tablet what's the logical equivalent of "mouseover"? On a standard mouse-based desktop UI what's the logical equivalent of multitouch gestures? Can I pinch and zoom with a mouse? Can I hover over an icon on an iPad?
 
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't try to boil these interactions across different devices to a single, one-size-fits-all UI paradigm. You will fail. It's like trying to play a sampled piano with a MIDI guitar... it's just going to sound like a piano sound coming out of a guitar player's hands.
 
As a long-time Windows user, I appreciate his candid and revealing assessment of the Windows 8 user experience.
 

The guy's confusion, and your rage, about not KNOWING how to move the initial screen is a reflection of your lack of knowing.

Bwahaha!!! "Move the intiail screen"??? Again.. did you realize what you wrote there? "MOVE THE INITIAL SCREEN"????? Why??? why does he have to freaking "move the initial screen"? What purpose does that serve???? Tell me, I need to know what purpose "move the initial screen serves".  Do you know? Cuz I really don't know what purpose that serves other than to confuse users who are expecting something entirely different for a desktop operating system.
 
Actually don't tell me, I already know. He has to "move the initial screen" because that is sooo arbitrarily different then every other operating system in existence that MS thought to themselves "wow, we're really advancing the paradigm now! ... let's go with 'move the intial screen'"...
 
You can not convince me that a.) "move the initial screen" actually serves a purpose, and b.) given item "a", "move the initial screen" is not bad UI design.
 
It's bad UI.
 
And as far as rage is concerned: my rage stems from the realization that the next generation of the Windows operating system is demonstrated in that video. It's unnecessarily different for no purpose, no reason, no anything. Windows 8 is just different for the purpose of being different, and yes, that makes my angry. I see the fruits of my hard earned MS upgrade dollars in action, and what I see makes me angry.

Tweaking:
So you still got the default desktop wall paper?
Does the machine sleep and hibernate?
Auto updates?
Not modified the middle mouse button?

I'm talking specifically about ditching metro. I'm not talking about changing you desktop background and swapping your mouse buttons. I'm talking about disabling the selling point of the software. The first time you booted Win7, did it make sense? Did you know how to log in, how to start apps, how to close apps, where to find your documents, how to shutdown?
 
I bet you did, and in that context, the posted video is very telling -- Win 8 amounts to a bunch of arbitrary desktop UI reshuffling not only for no apparent purpose, but reshuffling that actually impedes user interaction.
 
You can not just hide behind the "he's a mac user, therefore he's a biased snob" card. He's not saying windows is not as good as mac. He's not saying he doesn't like windows 7. What he did do is describe in a very detailed manner the Windows 7 start menu... here's how you get to your apps, your docs, your control panels, your this your that in Windows 7. Then he contrasted Windows 7 with Windows 8, and the contrasts are alarming. Windows 8 is a human factors failure.

 
"So what exactly does MS think they know that PARC/Apple didn't know 30 years ago?" 
 
You are correct. Even though we are older now we cannot possibly have learned anthing new. How far back ya wanna go?
200 years: The founding fathers of the country knew best
1300 years: the koran is the way
2500 years: in the beginning was the word

You're being obtuse now. We're talking about "'desktop; operating system user interfaces". Not sun dials. Keep it on topic. Arbitrary swipes and hidden functions is bad UI design. Too many clicks is bad UI design. Too much scrolling is bad UI design. When a user has to go google "how to shut down windows 8"... that's bad UI design.  

And why do you type so well?  Where did you learn that? Do you use a QWERTY or  a Dvorak keyboard? Flat or contoured?

 
I use a QWERTY kleyboard and I use 4 fingers. I never learned to type, but I don't have to look at the keyboard to know where the keys are... You know why? Because some turtle-necked UI dork in Redmond has not yet gotten some hair-brained idea to just start arbitrarily moving the "a" key where the "u" key is. You're making my argument for me.

Just like taking the "Open..." menu item out of the place it's been for 30 years and arbitrarily hiding it under some non-descript jumble of iconography... No, I do not like the direction MS is going. Win 8 appears to be reflective of that direction.
 
 

Vista? VISTA?! VIIIISSSSTTTTAAAAAAA????!!!!!!! *head asplode*

I have the Windows 8 preview and I don't like it much. It might turn out to a fine OS but it has at present an unfriendly GUI.

Beepster


Vista? VISTA?! VIIIISSSSTTTTAAAAAAA????!!!!!!! *head asplode*

MUUAAAHHHAAAAHHHAAAA!!!


So there

Thats just it I couldn't find a way to "have it my way". There is no simple way to show a start menu for example. You have to go to metro and than show all the apps. It also gave me trouble shutting down. I had to find a fix on the web for that. There is no quick start either. I use that a lot. I know its only a preview and I am hoping that its not really as bad as I found it to be but at present it is awful. The way I look at is they seem to be trying to have two OSs in one. Neither seem to have much to do with the other. I am not looking forward to it so far.

And ya'll should keep in mind this is only the first preview.

Lots of stuff has already changed.

@keith

Well - that's the reason I only use Windows to run music programs like Sonar.  This costed only one OEM licence.

For anything else I use Linux and all the free utilities and software (Like Open/Libre office, Blender, Rosegarden, Lilipond etc.). Total cost... $0.00 

I also use Windows to play an occasional game, but for that I use Windows in the "trial" modus. You can use  Windows 7 (by extending the trial period) fully legal for 3 months. After that you have to re-install and start a new trial period. If only used fore gaming one re-install in 3 months is not a real PITA.  I use this Windows in dual-boot, so the games that do not run under Wine (or as native) are just one reboot away.

Back to topic - I really don't know if X2 (or something like that) will be this year. I guess the start of 2013 (January/march) seems more likely to me..

If X2 NEEDS to run on Win 8 then I will most certainly not be buying X2. Just tossing that out there.