X3D - Audio editing forced to take lane processing only??!!??

Please make life easier for us, firstly please stop these sort of comments like "What gives??!!??" and "Why is it that I feel like I am paying to be a beta tester for this product??!!??" "Man, the more I use X3, the more issues I have with it and reminders of how poor X2 was for me. IF I found one good thing for 3 bad things I find, I would be happy, maybe." This is just a snapshot of what I've written today. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and maybe your opinion is right, but please don't expect everybody to rush to your forum thread. I would encourage more positivity and be more business-like about it. Right now you are putting up barrier before we even get to help you (we are not Cakewalk), I just got about of bed to read all this and now I'm depressed.
 
Secondly I apologise what I wrote just now, please don't think it's personal I've felt like that myself sometimes and I say things like this occasionally.
 
Thirdly, moving on...
 
Please could you give us full steps to reproduce in test case format, here is an example.... this makes things totally clear.... If you have issues this is the perfect way to get your point across, it will actually help people get it the root of the issue. You should always start with a brand new project.
 
Example
 
--->

STEPS

Turn on 3 USB MIDI devices (such as keyboards), each MIDI device has it's own channel (say 1 + 2 + 3).
Start Sonar X3D
Create new project
Insert 3 Dimension Pro softsynths.
Assign an exclusive sound for each softsynth.
Assign a single MIDI device to each softsynth track, making sure the MIDI input channel is specifically set correctly. i.e. If it's a Yamaha keyboard on channel 1, assign Yamaha Keyboard ->  MIDI ch.1.
Check to see if instruments play correctly.
Save the Project.
Close Sonar X3D application.
Turn off one MIDI device.
Start Sonar X3D
Open existing project.
Now play the MIDI controllers.


EXPECTED...

a) Some warning that MIDI devices have disappeared.
b) All three MIDI tracks have maintained their values, however the missing device is flagged up in some way.

ACTUAL...


The track with the missing MIDI device seems to have had the MIDI input changed to one of the other MIDI Input devices (which is weird).
Another MIDI Controller will have it's value changed for no reason whatsoever.
A third MIDI Controller will have the value persist.
 
<----
 
Thanks and sorry to be so forward.....

OK I'm not going to try and reproduce, they are not steps like I've recommended (fair enough hopefully somebody else can take you up on this) and I only have limited time to work this out, but may I ask you for a Cakewalk Problem CWBRN number when you decide to report this, and keep us updated.

Thankyou...

The scenario is this.
 
1 Record Audio track for 12 measures with 3 takes
2. Split the 3 takes equally at 4 measure intervals
3. expand the audio track if ot already expanded and mute the first 2 take lanes
4. solo the 3rd take
5. Collapse the lanes so only the audio track is visible
6. Select measures beginning 4 thru the end of 7 in the track view
 
At this point, I am not able to highlight anything for editing but the full track with the take lanes collapsed
 
prior to X3D, I was able to select the solo'd clip with the track lanes collapsed in the track view directly.

Guitarmech111
The scenario is this.
 
1 Record Audio track for 12 measures with 3 takes
2. Split the 3 takes equally at 4 measure intervals
3. expand the audio track if ot already expanded and mute the first 2 take lanes
4. solo the 3rd take
5. Collapse the lanes so only the audio track is visible
6. Select measures beginning 4 thru the end of 7 in the track view
 
At this point, I am not able to highlight anything for editing but the full track with the take lanes collapsed
 
prior to X3D, I was able to select the solo'd clip with the track lanes collapsed in the track view directly.

I just duplicated what you posted. In the main track, with all the Take Lanes collapsed, I was able to select only the clip that went from the beginning of 4 to the end of 7 and add fades, slip-edit, slip-edit with moving fade, split, etc., and also select just that clip and do signal processing like normalization and gain change. Of course, slip-editing revealed the next muted clip in the stack underneath, but I don't see where that would be a problem.
 
What's even better is if you then expand back to the Take Lanes, they will reflect any edits you've made. So you can edit on the Main track and have the results reflected in the Take Lanes, or edit in the Take Lanes and have them reflected in the Main track when the Take Lanes are collapsed.
 
It sounds like there is something you're not understanding about how this process works. It took me a while to read all the online help to make sure I understood all elements of the comping and Take Lanes processes, but now that I know how it works, I would NEVER want to go back to how it was handled in previous versions of Sonar. The speed comping is an absolute killer feature.
 
 

I apologise as well - I totally understand.... really...

ack, I need to add a step 7 - Right click in the Track view after the area is selected for processing options. At this point, the entire clip is selected and I am not able to process the desired clip with lanes collapsed.

In my reported project, I was trying to edit the clips In the audio track lane, not take lanes,  and now I am not able to.
 
I just went through my recipe on a new project and it works as expected. Something between X3C and X3D has corrupted my project I originally reported in this thread that it does not behave this way. I believe I know how it is supposed to work and it has changed from X3C to X3D on my machine. I will see if I can post a project for you if you want.

Conley,
 
I'm trying to follow your recipe but am not seeing a case where a comp clip is drawing on the track when lanes are collapsed.  However, if there's a situation where an edit operation is being blocked, we can look into it.
 
Thanks.
 
 

PM sent Keith, and Thanks for the post!
I reported later that my recipe does not repro on new projects in X3D. It appears that X3D corrupted this process in my bundle file I PM'd you about.

Noel,

Can you look at the "woes" post i made and CakeAlexS shared in is most recent post (middle one)? Is this normal and expected behavior?

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I suspect there is a misunderstanding of how the clips view displays data in X3 and the clips view editing paradigm rather than a bug.
 
X2 and earlier had a very simplistic representation of overlapping clips. Overlapping clips were drawing in order of creation or something like that *not* respecting whether they were audible or not. This made editing very non-intuitive.
In X3 we changed the drawing and editing tools to respect a WYSIWYH paradigm (what you see is what you hear). If you have a ton of overlapping clips but only one clip is audible, SONAR will favor displaying the audible clip. By far this is a far superior representation of the clips view because you are editing what is audible. Any non audible clips will NOT be drawing if they overlap with audible clips. i.e. there is a notion of "audible depth".
If you want to edit a muted clip that is obscured by an audible clip, the proper workflow is to open take lanes and edit them there. There is no other efficient way to edit overlapping data on a single track - its a paradigm that most other DAW's don't even allow.
You could move the clip that obscures the muted clip but that defeats the whole purpose IMO.
 
Hope this clarifies this somewhat...

Thanks Noel, if that was for me, my issue started in X3 and the behavior on my referenced bundle file changed after X3D. The root of this issue was working with Melodyne and how SONAR processed muted clips and in what order they were present in the take lanes. TS confirmed it was a bug, but I never got an SBM ticket number.
 
I PM'd Keith with the location of my project file and what I am seeing. This was not the workflow behavior I seen in X3C. I understand that we are supposed to be working on clips in the lanes now, but still, we should be able to select the clips in the audio track view and I am not able to with my posted project that DID work as expected in X3C.