You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want!

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azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2014/12/26 05:43:30 (permalink)
Dyonight
I need to setup a Mackie and an extender in order to have all 16 to work with the current mcu implementation. I guess I will need two instance of your plugin to have all channels recognized?

Yes, at least at the moment.  That is why I have asked about some other ("native") mode, in which the whole device is represented as one communication destination.
 

Depending on which template I use (Logic, cubase, protools, live, Studio One... well every existing daw but NOT Sonar...) I have access to different software commands, which trigger different functions.

In AZC you see near complete set of all possible commands which can be triggered. Each DAW has it's own set. Note that the set in SONAR is not Control Surface dependent. I mean SSL can not do more then other Surfaces, while the set can be smaller than in other DAWs (SONAR API for surfaces is almost unchanged since last 10 years, so most new features are not controllable).
 
And what is the "scientific" name of a "native mode"? I will ask SSL since they are very helpful with these kind of questions.

I have "scanned" the documentation, to understand what this device is. It does not look like they have some other mode or have plans to implement it. But that is not a limitation since they have no functions which can not be exposed throw Mackie protocols.
 

Do you know which approach would be best?

I still have not decided what I do with MCU preset within AZC... The last idea is just to implement everything the original plug-in has, may be untested.
 
But the first movement I recommend you is to understand what exactly you miss when using normal plug-in. For example SSL has less buttons then MCU, but they can be arbitrary assigned to any MCU buttons. It can be that the initial assignment is not optimal: check the help file for Mackie Control (XT) Plug-in.
 
You can spot some problems with "labels". The documentation mention the original MC layout, which is different from MCU layout (most probably imitated by SSL). Also the plug-in use special "SONAR" layout. The images in documentation are too small to be readable, but I have already constructed high resolution schema for all 3 (MC, MCU pro, SONAR). I can send the files to you (not sure I am allowed to make them public).
 
Plug-in mapping is configurable in text files (and it is not ACT). So in case you just miss some V-Pot mapping in "Plug-in" mode, you can fix that on per VST basis.
 
There is MC plug-in modification (not from me). While not targeting SSL, from what I could see in screen shots, it can help fixing quite some compatibility problems in case you observe them.
 
Finally, once you really know what you what and you are sure that is not achievable with CW usual methods, it can be time to dive into AZC configuration (may be my preset is ready by then).

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#31
Dyonight
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/01/15 15:16:38 (permalink)
For now I don't have  lot of time to program all this, but I want to get back some of the functionnalities I had with the VS700.
 
I would like to configure the button over the jogwheel as a main modifier to allow zooming with the Jog and accessing secondary functions on labeled keys, as well as complimentary ones like undo/redo, activate/set loop/punch.
 
Also, is it possible to dedicate (permanently tie) prochannel function to some knobs? Like the eq which is always avalaible and the selected compressor for exemple?
 
I am very interested in your high resolution schema, that could help at least match the names in the Nucleus editor with what sonar see.... For exemple:
Fader Group 5 -> Enter
Fader Group 6 -> Cancel
Add -> Activate Loop
Next -> Return to Zero
Etc
 
Not very intuitive...
 
Thanks!

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#32
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/01/15 16:52:03 (permalink)
Dyonight
For now I don't have  lot of time to program all this, but I want to get back some of the functionnalities I had with the VS700.
 
I would like to configure the button over the jogwheel as a main modifier to allow zooming with the Jog and accessing secondary functions on labeled keys, as well as complimentary ones like undo/redo, activate/set loop/punch.

I think you should  be able to reconfigure nucleus so it sends the codes you want and MCU plug-in expect
 

Also, is it possible to dedicate (permanently tie) prochannel function to some knobs? Like the eq which is always avalaible and the selected compressor for exemple?

Not with MCU plug-in. The code for EQ/Compressor is outdated there (till you have EQ as the first PC module in the chain).
 

I am very interested in your high resolution schema, that could help at least match the names in the Nucleus editor with what sonar see....

I will send you the image in PM in a minute. It show SONAR labels for MCU controls and MIDI (Note) IDs SONAR is expecting from that controls. For example, "Undo" is Note 82. Note, it is not the same labelling as on original devices ( MC has "Undo" label on 75, MCU Pro on 81 ). Also note that I do not have any of these devices... there can be some errors.

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#33
Earwax
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/09 04:16:32 (permalink)
Azslow3,
This really looks amazing. How well does your plugin work with the Mackie C4? I would love to be able to fully utilize that CS's potential in Sonar X3(e) and/or Platinum. I don't mind hard work, as long as it has a good chance to pay off.
 
Thanks.
 

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#34
subtlearts
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/09 04:32:28 (permalink)
I'm interested - just noticing this thread for the first time. I have an NI Kore (first gen) here which I've used to some extent with ACT before, it's not perfect but it can be made to do useful things with a little effort. No sliders but hi-res touch-sensitive endless rotaries and a bunch of buttons. And a jog wheel, which I could never get to work perfectly with ACT. Maybe this will raise the bar! I'll have a go at it in the next few days...

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#35
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/09 08:32:09 (permalink)
Earwax
This really looks amazing. How well does your plugin work with the Mackie C4? I would love to be able to fully utilize that CS's potential in Sonar X3(e) and/or Platinum. I don't mind hard work, as long as it has a good chance to pay off.

I do not have any real Mackie device. While MCU itself is close to (documented!) Mackie LC and has at least some emulation with TouchDAW I can use, I do not know any emulator for C4 (may be BCR, but I do not have it either).
C4 and MCU are normally working together. That imply I have to finish MCU preset first.
At the same time, it should be possible to configure C4 as a separate controller with 32 encoders plus buttons (I mean now, with my current version). Something like ACT MIDI, with LED rings and display support. You can start with that, it should not take more than several hours for you. Just follow ACT MIDI Explained tutorial (after Mackie initialization procedure, send "'Hello", wait for "Ehlo" and may be send "Connect" to let C4 trust you). In case you need some tips/hints or complete initialization example, please contact me on my forum (I will send you the corresponding part of my not yet finished MCU Explained tutorial).
 
subtlearts
Maybe this will raise the bar! I'll have a go at it in the next few days...

I believe AZ Controller can be useful with any controller. Unfortunately after I have seen several such statements, there was no real feedback...
 

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#36
DoctorCalabria
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/10 03:16:21 (permalink)
Thank you! I have been following the development for some months and aside from being quite generous in providing your solution for free, your site provides the most lucid and in-depth information I have seen on the subject.  I am an obsessive collector of defunct controllers and you have made it much more likely I will get to use them in my dream studio.  Now if we can crack the elusive HUI code...
 
PS I do feel bad that the response you have received is somewhat underwhelming and I am no better than anyone in not providing the requests for feedback or features.  Errr...aah...if you put up a Paypal button I would gladly donate $$ :p
post edited by DoctorCalabria - 2015/02/10 03:25:49

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#37
Earwax
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/10 06:55:19 (permalink)
DoctorCalabria
Thank you! I have been following the development for some months and aside from being quite generous in providing your solution for free, your site provides the most lucid and in-depth information I have seen on the subject.  I am an obsessive collector of defunct controllers and you have made it much more likely I will get to use them in my dream studio.  Now if we can crack the elusive HUI code...
 
PS I do feel bad that the response you have received is somewhat underwhelming and I am no better than anyone in not providing the requests for feedback or features.  Errr...aah...if you put up a Paypal button I would gladly donate $$ :p


Ditto! azslow3, you should definitely get paid for a finished product. I anxiously await your Mackie preset. And, thanks for answering my question. And, finally, I do have both the MCU and the C4.
Ciao

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#38
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/10 07:06:33 (permalink)
DoctorCalabria
Thank you! I have been following the development for some months and aside from being quite generous in providing your solution for free
...
if you put up a Paypal button I would gladly donate $$ :p

The situation is the following. While the project is just a hobby, the codebase is big. The real price of that plug-in (development time divided by my usual salary, plus innovations value, financial support, taxes) is outside of any imaginable limit. I guess the reason why we do not see many SONAR aware controllers is the price/interest ratio.
 
So I decide to provide it for free, pay the web site costs myself and do not put donation button. In principal I am ready to accept targeted donations, for some particular device. But only after I get request about that device and understand the development is hard/not possible without it.
 
HUI is not "magical". It is just several commands, quite close to the LC/MCU set. From what I know, TouchDAW support the set (I have never tried it), so I have some kind of test environment.
 
As you have noticed already, the feedback I get is close to zero. In such conditions, I can not justify the time I need for some new features I personally will never use.

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#39
Wookiee
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/10 10:01:35 (permalink)
Will give this test with my M-Audio Key-station Pro 88 and my Peavey 1600x controllers later today.
 
Cheers Alexey 

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#40
reginaldStjohn
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/02/10 16:07:18 (permalink)
Just wanted to chime in to say that I have use the azslow control surface and although it took me a while to figure it out I was able to make my Korg NanoKontrol2 work as I have always wanted it to work. I can control both tracks and busses in the Console view.
 
Thank you very much.

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#41
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/19 12:31:38 (permalink)
I am bumping the thread in hope to get more alpha testers for my MCU preset. Up to now, I know about one (!) without MCU but with QCon Pro. So I have branched the preset (IQP) with avoided negotiation, reduced range on sliders and different ring indication mode.
 
I hoped to do all test with TouchDAW, but even Humatic say it is a bad idea. Deducting what my plug-in send differently and so TD is interpreting incorrectly is a fun by itself but that does not answer on the question either real device react correctly.
 
The test is simple and is not going to take more then 10 minutes of your time:
  1. Download and install the latest version from http://www.azslow.com/index.php/board,2.0.html
  2. In Mackie Control Properties dialog save your current preset (in case you have ever changed some defaults)
  3. In SONAR Preferences/MIDI/Control Surfaces, remove "Mackie Control" and insert "AZ Controller". Select correct Input and Output from MCU
  4. In the "AZ Controller" properties, go to the "Options" tab in in the "Tweak current configuration..." box and select "Mack.. Control" (or "IQP" in case you have it).
  5. To restore your original configuration, remove "AZ Controller", reinsert "Mackie Control" and restore preset inside its Properties dialog.
Any response from you is welcome. "It does not work at all" is still better then nothing. But in case you are ready to spend more than 10 minutes, you can help me to create something really working for you. The preset is just a preset, you can modify everything yourself if you want/need and have time.

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#42
Wookiee
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/19 14:49:42 (permalink)
Will give it a go

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#43
dubdisciple
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/19 15:06:40 (permalink)
I have been giving this a go with my MPD26 and I am making progress.  Not the easiest tool to figure out, but I have to say the things that do work , seem to work better than relying on ACT for me.
#44
BretB
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/19 17:46:00 (permalink)
I have an Allen and Heath ZED-R16 that I have never got to fully work as a controller.  I have my hopes that this might solve that.  Maybe I should lower my expectations so that I am pleased with the results.  I look forward to giving it a try.
 
These boards even come with a basic version of Sonar but the combination was never completed between the hardware and software I don't think.

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#45
DRanck
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/19 23:23:12 (permalink)
I finally took a some time and set AZ Controller up to work with some basic functions using my Akai Pro MPK 88. So far I've just set up the transport and some commands but it works great! Way easier to work with than the ACT interface. ACT kept losing my settings. Now I might get somewhere with the MPK.
 
Thanks for all of the time you put into this!

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#46
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/20 14:22:32 (permalink)
I have just written simple preset generator so it is now possible start using my plug-in with simple devices without spending a week: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,154.0.html
 
BretB
Maybe I should lower my expectations so that I am pleased with the results.  I look forward to giving it a try.

In case you describe your expectations, I can try to answer either you should lower them or not

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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#47
dubdisciple
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/20 14:45:15 (permalink)
azslow3
I have just written simple preset generator so it is now possible start using my plug-in with simple devices without spending a week: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,154.0.html
 
BretB
Maybe I should lower my expectations so that I am pleased with the results.  I look forward to giving it a try.

In case you describe your expectations, I can try to answer either you should lower them or not


Thank you.  I am going to try and give you more feedback.  i know it can be tough to put in work and it seems like nobody cares.
#48
Paul P
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/20 18:06:26 (permalink)
 
I certainly care, but I just can't play with this before the summer.
 
I'm hoping azslow3 won't give up before then.
 
It's good to see others getting involved as that will help to keep it alive.  I still have to get a decent keyboard/controller (I currently have a 2 octave cheap one) and will be even more interested when that happens.
 

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#49
Sh03e
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/21 02:13:48 (permalink)
Tested with my Novation Launchkey 61, i use your plugin azslow in combination with ACT within Sonar X3 Studio.
Results?
AMAZING, I was able to program the Mute buttons of my Launchkey that despite my efforts within ACT, i never was able to get it function properly.
I'll be trying and testing more possibilities, once i can understand a bit more how it works.

Thank you so much for your kindly efforts.
 
Alberto Fuentes.
(P.S. Sorry if you can't understand me everything, english is not my native language.)
#50
Brando
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/21 10:28:01 (permalink)
Alexey -
First of all - many thanks for all your hard work on behalf of the SONAR community.
I have a very basic question after downloading and trying this for the first time. My needs are very basic as I don't really have an elaborate control surface setup. ACT has been working ok for my needs with some minor issues.
I installed the 64 bit version of your latest dll into the shared surfaces folder (Program Files/Cakewalk/Shared Surfaces).
After restarting SONAR, "AZ Controller" is available from the pulldown list of ACT controllers. When I attempt to select it, it appears in brackets, and the In Port and Out Port I select do not persist as a selection option (this happens for any available MIDI port). At first I thought there was a conflict with an existing ACT controller on the same port I was attempting to use, so I deleted it, and another ACT controller on a different port, and retried, but the same thing happens. Any ideas? If I am doing anything fundamentally wrong (quite possible) please advise and I'll retry.
(Am I wrong in assuming I should be using the 64 bit version of the dll (SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Windows 8.1 64 bit)?
Thanks!
 

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#51
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/21 11:25:53 (permalink)
If you for some reason want to move it, you should re-register it since it is a COM object. If you do not know what COM object is or how to register DLLs, please, let it stay where it was... You can rerun the installation package to get it back. It install 32 and 64 bit DLLs and register them properly. The update/deinstallation is also are going to work only in case you let the installer to do its job.

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#52
BretB
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/23 18:07:27 (permalink)
This is looking promising but I am still not there with the control from my A&H ZEDR-16.  I can open the azslow plugin and see it is receiving MIDI signals from my console.  I am trying to get channel 1 on my fader setup so that I might copy the other 15 from its settings.  I have followed the instructions you have given but still get no movement in Sonar.  I know this is probably a stupid question but do I also need to go through the "learn" function by right clicking each fader in a Sonar project?

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#53
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/23 18:53:26 (permalink)
In case you see MIDI signals coming, that is a good sign.
 
I assume you are following "Quick start" step. Please check step (8), I mean you should see the control name in addition to the MIDI. And then check the order of actions: in the list, "Strip" should be the first and "Value" next. You should also see the actions executed in the Overview tab every time you move the fader.
 
Plug-ins are working apart from the SONAR MIDI Learn. As soon as you can see the code in plug-in, everything is right on SONAR side.

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www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#54
BretB
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/24 22:37:19 (permalink)
I got my fader 1 to control Sonar Track 1 level!  Some how I also got fader 2 to control Sonar Track 2 level!  When I proceeded to attemp fader 3, it adjusts Sonar Track 1 and not 3.  I am still a little confused by the sequence of the tabs and options to take to get all 16 faders programmed.  I have not yet tried the transport controls or the 12 rotary controls and 4 extra MIDI slide controls I have on my console.  The bright side is that I have seen some progress!

Sonar Platinum - A&H ZED R16 - KRK VXT4's - Yamaha DTXpress IV & Gretsch Catalina Maple kits
 
"Music is what feelings sound like"
https://soundcloud.com/bret575b
#55
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/25 05:19:24 (permalink)
I am glad you have some progress and I appreciate you inform me.
 
In case you use fader 3 and look at the "Overview" Tab. Do you see "Track 1" before "Value" in the executed list or
you see something else? So, please check that that "Strip" Action for Fader 3 has correct settings.
 
I suggest you apply "Startup preset" with 16 strips as the starting point, it will define 16 sliders, 16 encoders as well as the transport section. It also can define buttons for strips and mode switching operations, but I have not found in the documentation either ZED send MIDI from buttons. That is not the show stopper, it is possible to adopt encoders/sliders to do mode switching (change banks, move WAI, etc.) or something else (move throw markers for example).

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#56
LunaTech
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/25 08:42:08 (permalink)
Hello Brett/Azlow3,
 
Not sure if this helps but there is midi information in this document on page 47:http://www.allen-heath.com/media/AP7236_iss_2.pdf which speaks to midi implementation on the ZED. Watching this one with keen interest. IHTH ...

"Life could capture me with songs of innocence...
And enrapture me with pleasures galore...
Suddenly it could all quickly fade away...
But I'm not surprised any more...."

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#57
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/25 15:41:14 (permalink)
I have overseen the page when I have quick checked it before, thank you for pointing it is really there.
 
So, 20 faders, 12 encoders and 17 buttons. If you have an idea what they should do, I can make ready to use preset for the device. While everyone can do this, the probability of head explosion during reading my documentation is not zero (especially for native English speaking people without programming experience )

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#58
BretB
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/25 16:20:07 (permalink)
I had hopes years ago that when they started working with and including Sonar LE that we might get a working preset for this unit.  While I love a challenge it has taken over an hour to get 2 faders to work.  I would gladly work with you anyway I can to make a complete preset for this unit possible.  There are many users of this console out there and many are Cake users, I believe even Craig A is one of us.

Sonar Platinum - A&H ZED R16 - KRK VXT4's - Yamaha DTXpress IV & Gretsch Catalina Maple kits
 
"Music is what feelings sound like"
https://soundcloud.com/bret575b
#59
azslow3
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Re: You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want! 2015/03/25 16:43:57 (permalink)
In case 2 faders are working, normally other can be done in 5 minutes. I see in your case something went wrong, and I can understand that can be frustrating.
 
So I propose you (and other) just write in words how you want to use the device and I prepare a preset which does that.
 
Please understand that I am not a professional sound engineer. I can not create genius perfect preset for ZED16 alone. I see ZED and CW have proposed to use it with Generic Surface and ACT MIDI. But since we have the discussion here, that is not what you want and it make no sense to just repeat that configuration in AZC.

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#60
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