Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly

If I have posted in the wron category, I apologize.
 
I am having a hard time getting a good bass guitar sound in the mix. A few things to mention:
 
1) I have great monitors, KRK Rokit 8
2) I have treated the room a bit with foam, however it is the spare bedroom in my house so I can only do so much. (I understand room treatment is important, I'm not a pro, I have to use what I have. Don't want to get into that discussion again. Hoping for a work around)
3) Using an Avalon U5 preamp / Direct
4) P-Bass with SD Quater Pounders pickups
 
As indicated above, I think I have very good quality gear. I am just having a hard time getting the bass guitar to sound right and sit in the mix correctly. And also lack good "seperation" of the guitars and bass. I have referenced other recordings, for example AC/DC Back in Black album and I'm just not getting close. Either way too much or way to little. Have the guitars shelved at about 360 HZ and they sound fantastic Drums sound really good, vocals are cutting thru well.  I have read a few recording books and searched online and viewed a few videos on the subject. And I am still struggling with it.
 
Does anyone have any tips or tricks they have picked up? Would love to learn them if you are willing to share them!

I am embarrassed to ask, what is Melodyne?  I looked it up but there seems to be several products. Which are you referring to? Is it a plugin ?

I think I've read on here to pan the bass just slightly out of center to get it away from the other frequencies. Also sometimes the kick will steal your bass frequency. I've seen reference to a very slight side chain + compressor being able to help with this problem but I've never tried it.

I have tried the side chain on the kick. It worked really well to bring out the kick a bit.

Yes, I am using Guitar Rg 5 -the bass amps and have tried several presets. I have downloaded some prochannel presets and still have the same issues. I really only use the plugins that came with sonar (Sonitus). Not sure why, but the cakewalk plugins didn't install and I am not into going thru all of that again just to add the plugins.

Check this table for the right frequencies to emphasize. I stole it from a post in the propellerhead forum:

Whoa... you don't have access to the Sonar plugs? Those are a huge part of the value of Sonar. You're missing out, man. You should call Cakewalk tech support about that. You'll likely get much better results with the goodies.

Compression really helps on the bass.
 
I like using the ProChannel concrete Limiter with the bass switch turned on.
 
Using the Sat knob to add just a little saturation helps it cut through.
 
EQ is important.  It does depend on the sound, but a few starting points I use are:
 
  Remove everything below 41.2HZ (low E) if in standard tuning.  Probably even higher.
  Low Pass Filter 3 - 5KHz
  Attenuate around 300Hz to improve clarity.
 
Experiment, but these are just rough starting points that work for me.  It depends on the recording, the style of music (e.g. slap bass will be very different to Jazz), etc.
 
 
YMMV
 

Here's one strategy for producing bass guitar. Put your DI bass git on one track and your amped bass on another. If you don't have an amped bass copy your DI and run it through an amp sim or an IR. Copy the DI to a third track and name it "fuzz" or "bite" so you end up with three tracks, DI, Amped and fuzz.

On the DI track drop a fast FET compressor (1176, PC76 etc) on it and compress a fair amount. I sometimes like to add some wooliness by turning the attack and release to their fastest settings. This track will provide the presence and solidity of your bass guitar line.

On the Amp track compress a bit but don't go too fast on attack and release. This should be your big, round, low bass sound. I think of this track as being most like what I hear with a bass guitar playing through an amp in a room.

On the fuzz track drop on a tube simulater (the TL64 does a pretty good job with this) and drive it so you're really fuzzy. EQ out the low end so that you're really only getting mid/mid-hi's and above. This track provides bite and definition.

Route all three tracks to a bus and mix each of them to sculpt your sound. I usually like some kind of LA2A-type compressor (TLA-100, PC2A etc) as well. Next, put an EQ on the bus and use a hi-pass filter at about 500hz with a really gentle slope...on the ProChannel EQ I usually use a 6. Drop the gain on that filter all the way down so you're only left with the frequencies above it. Sculpt the mids and hi's and when done slowly dial back in the low end. I usually dial back in the lows with the rest of the material playing to get the balance right. Potentially carve out a space for your kick with the other bands of eq. Adjust futher where where needed. Use the tracks feeding the bus to change the character of the bass sound. Don't be afraid to compress a fair amount and don't be afraid to automate the relative levels of the different bass tracks..sometimes the character of the sound needs to change (from verse to chorus for example).

Good luck,
Dean

On the fuzz track drop on a tube simulater (the TL64 does a pretty good job with this) and drive it so you're really fuzzy. EQ out the low end so that you're really only getting mid/mid-hi's and above. This track provides bite and definition.

That's a cool tip!
This can net you that old-school Chris Squire, Geddy Lee type bass tone.
Distorted mids/highs... which adds character... without a muddy/fuzzy bottom.

Thanks all!   I copied and pasted into a text file and printed and saved. this is exactly what I was hoping for.  I have been learning mostly on my own as I go. It is great to see how others work thru their process. Always a learning experience. I really wish there was a user group that meets here in the Phoenix Area.

@Jamsyoyo, I have downloaded and will play with that.

Wow, thanks for posting a link to this - trying it out on one of my mixes and am really liking it!

jamesyoyo


After you follow everyone else's fine advice, try using this

dlesaux


This month's Sound on Sound magazine has a great article on mixing the low end..

This month's Sound on Sound magazine has a great article on mixing the low end..

 
+1

 Waves Bass Rider.... brings out all your tidbits of Gold.

FYI, the correct forum would have been found here -->  http://forum.cakewalk.com/tt.aspx?forumid=9

Some good stuff has already been said. I'd mainly put it down to good use of compression and eq. If you can't get there (or at least close) without those tools, then something is wrong and re-recording certain components may be necessary. If you're using an amp sim for your sound, that's fine too, as it's an important part of your sound - but I'm talking after you have that sound.


One little point I wanted to make was to do with monitoring. Spare bedroom usually means small bedroom. A little bit of foam usually means high frequency attenuation only. As I'm sure you're aware, the end result is bad bass response. As for some personal opinion, the KRK Rokit 8's... They SOUND good. The bass on them sounds really good. For the price. But I think the bass in particular is a problem with these as far as ACCURATE MONITORING is concerned. I find the bass appears to be VERY separate from the rest of the mix. It's like there is a big hole/gap around 200-300Hz where it doesn't connect with everything else. I must admit I have only listened to these in a listening room in a store (reasonable room, set up well), but compared to other monitors, that's what I heard. This relates directly to what you are attempting to judge here. What I'm getting at is that in my opinion, your room and those monitors are going to make bass decisions very difficult. It's difficult to trust what you're hearing. Solution? Just keep in your mind to check your mix on numerous other systems and with a good set (or a few sets) of headphones. This is especially important to remember as what you hear in your room is likely to translate completely differently in another room. Just something I think is very important to keep in mind as you try out some of the above techniques. You don't want to forget it or you might waste a lot of time and then realise it works no-where else!