Helpful Replyi7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x

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Bill Gabbert
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 19:17:20 (permalink)
The way I understand it....
AMD Only manufactures the Ryzen 1800x .
Then with a lazer, disables features and cores that result in the 1700s, 1600s, 1500s,1400s.
I guess Intel does the same thing....Marketing.
post edited by Bill Gabbert - 2017/05/04 21:09:50
#31
interpolated
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 19:32:04 (permalink)
Silent cases only really work with quiet components. My case is Antec P100 which is a budget case with silencing in mind. Not quite though.
 
You do get a slight low undertone when drives are operating faster. Both drives are HDD and currently only one SSD at the moment. In my intended upgrade I want to use a NVME SSD drive for a boot/program, keep one HDD for archival and backup. Another SSD for writing to as I don't record external instruments although I'll just get what is ideal on the day.
 

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
#32
Bill Gabbert
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 20:19:35 (permalink)
Maybe it's just my bad luck , But at least 4 SATA's have failed me. You don't need a silent case or even case fans... If you don't have any noise or heat. 3 SSD's raided 0 for speed would be ideal.
 
{The first manufacturer to use  "USB3.1 v2" in their Audio interface will make inexpensive AMD's a great option!}
post edited by Bill Gabbert - 2017/05/10 21:00:29
#33
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 20:24:25 (permalink)
**** The forum software is absolutely terrible if you edit a post. ****

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#34
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 20:26:09 (permalink)
Bill Gabbert
Maybe it's only my bad luck, But I have gone through at least 4 SATA's ; You don't need a silent case or even any fans if your system doesn't make any heat or any noise. 3 SSD's raided 0 for speed would be ideal.



Nit picking, but it you're going to configure any striped RAID, you want an even number of drives.  
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#35
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 20:26:54 (permalink)
Your drive configuration should be based on your needs:
If you're pulling 128-256 notes of disk-streaming polyphony (from Kontakt, etc), there's no sense talking RAID array.
A single SATA SSD will suffice.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#36
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 20:28:24 (permalink)
If you're running something like EWSO (which only allows a single drive location for its accompanying library), two SATA SSDs in RAID-0 will net about 1000MB/Sec.  Plenty of polyphony... at reasonable cost.
 
If you're a hardcore composer running multiple multi-mic libraries, the polyphony can pile up fast.
We have clients scoring video games (doing huge orchestral mock-ups) who want to pull 4000+ stereo voices of disk-streaming polyphony.  These folks typically leverage m.2 Ultra, PCIe x4, and multiple SATA SSDs.
 
There's still a time/place for conventional HDs.
If you're recording audio at 44.1k/48k, unless you're working on projects with more than 100 contiguous audio tracks, you don't need SSD.
Today's HDs don't put off nearly the noise or heat of their predecessors.  
Nothing at all like the old Seagate Cheetahs!
 
If you're working at 188k/192k, I'd go with SSD for Audio.
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#37
Bill Gabbert
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/04/30 21:53:29 (permalink)
Yes, Oddly I think it was - 3 scsi Cheetahs raided that was my first fail!
 
 So if one needs 4 drives to raid-0...There is the consideration that 4 drives raided = 4x the probability of failure.
 
{The price has dropped to $200 for a New Ryzen 5 1600 6core.- eBay , 5/1/17}
 
 
post edited by Bill Gabbert - 2017/05/01 19:24:30
#38
vladasyn
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/01 20:54:30 (permalink)
Actually I have HUGE problem with Kaby Lake and Z270 Asus Hero motherboard. My Presonu Studio Live 1st generation would not run with Fire Wire card. Presonus says- I am the only one with this problem. It is still possible that it is unsigned drivers issue, but the foftware part is working, but hardware can not transmit. Presonus says- may be something wrong with the line distribution and Z270 not able to handle 24 tracks of Audio. They say- with Apple, they some time would get only 8 channels work but with PCs, if it does not have enough throughput, nothing goes trough. Have to throw away 24 channels Presonus mixer over this and buy something else. And nobody knows. Reported this to Asus- no answer. 

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#39
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/01 21:06:27 (permalink)
I've stress-tested Kabylake with more than 24 channels of audio...
It performed well with Z270 chipset motherboard (see above).
 
Have you tried a different Firewire controller?
SIIG makes a great TI chipset controller.
Syba also makes a nice (inexpensive) TI chipset controller.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#40
interpolated
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/01 21:07:10 (permalink)
Does it have Thunderbolt the Z270 chipset. As a workaround if you get a suitable adaptor you could channel it through that interface.
 
There's Apple Mac adapters however PC seem to be hiding.
 
Well Belkin do one......screw that price though. I'm sure Apple has upped the licensing rights for that one....
 

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
#41
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/01 21:35:35 (permalink)
Some Z270 motherboards have Thunderbolt-3.
 
StarTech also makes a Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt-2 adapter.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#42
vladasyn
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/02 13:25:15 (permalink)
Well- I used the same model of the Fire Wire card that I used for my Ivy Bridge build. I think it is SIIG TI chip. Both cards work on my Ivy Bridge and none work on Kaby. We tried the legacy driver- it sees the mixer, it sees if I move the faders, it even updated firmware on the mixer via Fire Wire, so it communicates, but Audio cant go through. Do you think I need to buy another card model? As I say- the card works on Z77 motherboard.
 
And, yes, it has Thunderbolt. Dont mean to threadjack with my problem (my $2500 problem)- I can start another thread, also it been discussed in details in Toms Hardware. You saying- there is adopter from Thunderbolt to FireWire? That would be weird way to connect but if it works...  

https://soundcloud.com/vlada-astral 
http://vladasyn.wix.com/astral#
I am a female. Windows 8.1
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  Multiple keyboards and modules, software synths.  
#43
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/02 13:53:46 (permalink)
Regarding Thunderbolt-3 to Firewire:
It would involve using a Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt-2 adapter... then a Thunderbolt to Firewire.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#44
vladasyn
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/05/02 14:45:55 (permalink)
Started new thread "Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 to FireWire" and it does not show in the thread list. Can anyone see it? (Sorry for this). Thank you. 

https://soundcloud.com/vlada-astral 
http://vladasyn.wix.com/astral#
I am a female. Windows 8.1
Custom DAW Intel Core I7 3770K, 16 Gb memory, SSD+ 2 x 2 Gb storage. Presonus StudioLive 24.
  Multiple keyboards and modules, software synths.  
#45
occide
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 05:55:43 (permalink)
To anyone who's digging here, I want to share my experience with Ryzen 7 and Sonar Professional:
 
For Ryzen DRAM speed is very important to the CPU performance, there've also been Microcode updates the last couple of month increasing both DRAM and CPU performance. If you plan to overclock a Ryzen 7 1700 the price/performance ratio differs a bit to the Intel chips, plus the Intel Mainboards are quite more expensive.
 
One thing I recently found is if you set Sonars CPU affinity to not use Core 0 and 1 on Ryzen the load balancing in Sonar works a lot better, the spikes on CPU 0 go away completely and you get less dropouts. That's been just a personal finding and I don't know how it compares to the other tests here or in real life scenarios. Also Ryzen seems to gain a lot from using more instances of a demanding instrument like Falcon, in comparison to only use one instance of Falcon and load a bunch of instruments into that one instance.
 
I myself am pretty happy with my Ryzen 7 1700 overclocked to 3.95Ghz and DDR4 3000 (14-14-14-30) - it's still a beast of a machine, also for audio and it didn't cost me very much. Besides I also use this machine for gaming and other purposes, I made my decision for Ryzen consciously, knowing it would perform better in some areas and worse in other areas. 
 
I don't meant to say Jim's test suggested "Ryzen is bad for Sonar", cause in my eyes it didn't. But some people seem to interpret it that way and I personally cannot confirm this.
#46
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 14:57:15 (permalink)
Have I said just how much I LOATH the forum software???  

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#47
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 14:57:37 (permalink)
Keep in mind I tested Ryzen when it was initially launched (and followed up a couple months later... after the dust had settled).
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#48
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 14:57:52 (permalink)
On initial launch, the motherboards were *super* flaky.  Beta status at best...
SMT (Hyper Threading in AMD speak) would mysteriously disappear.
Change an unrelated BIOS setting (disable onboard Audio) and the motherboard wouldn't boot with RAM at 2667MHz.
 
Several months down the line, motherboards have solidified a bit.
However, there's still some flaky behavior.
We had one scenario (recently testing X370 motherboards with RAM at 3200MHz) where the motherboard would let you into the BIOS... and immediately lock up.  The behavior continued even after clearing CMOS.  
Had to pull the RAM to get motherboard back to normal function.
At this point, there's no way I'd build a Ryzen based DAW for clients.
 
Intel X99 motherboards are mature and rock-solid
ie: You can install DDR4/3200 in just about any major X99 motherboard... and it'll work just fine.
Ironically, there's not a major performance benefit for using higher speed RAM.
 
These things said, we do have an 1800x based DAW here in the studio.
Overall, it's running pretty well.
We've got 32GB RAM running at 3200MHz.
Still waiting on further BIOS updates... to improve RAM compatibility and eliminate issues when changing parameters.
With fast RAM, the 1800x does best the i7-6850k running DAW Bench (low-latency audio stress-test).
 
Healthy competition is good for everyone...
Intel hasn't had serious competition for at least a decade.
Ryzen has the potential to be serious competition.
AMD's next generation "Threadripper" CPUs are even more enticing.
Up to 16-cores (32 Threads) and 64 PCIe lanes...

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
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#49
scook
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 15:36:37 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Have I said just how much I LOATH the forum software???  


I restored the post but it appears you edited it after I restored it. The spam blocker had two chances to delete the post and it opted to do so both times.
#50
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 16:15:43 (permalink)
I appreciate your efforts, scook.   :)
FWIW, I can't ever edit a post without it being removed.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#51
scook
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/02 17:43:39 (permalink)
Hosts have no control over the spam blocker, it is maintained by CW staff. You might see if Ryan can do something about it.
#52
occide
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/03 07:34:12 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
On initial launch, the motherboards were *super* flaky.  Beta status at best...
...

That's all correct. And the state of beta isn't over for Ryzen, probably never will be. Especially the mainboards still have a ton of issues that can be hard and time consuming to deal with, even for experienced PC builders.
 
BIOS updates keep coming but fix little. This is the price you pay for a low-cost high-performance computer. But the newer Intel CPUs do have some issues to, albeit not the same. The 6th and 7th generation i7 all run pretty hot, without spending additional money for high-grade cooling solutions you won't be able to overclock at all. When it comes to the newer Intel CPUs it's all about the money, too much for my taste.
 
The best thing definitely is that Intel finally has some competition to deal with. Even the pro-Intel party should consider this as a big plus, Intel has been looting all of us to an extensive level, and I personally was feed up with this. Before Ryzen I considered buying solely on the second-hand market from now on, which would have been a questionable decision, cause CPUs wear. After Ryzen Intel pulled one new announcement after the other from their magic hat.
#53
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/03 16:11:34 (permalink)
FWIW, Both AMD and Intel release information (and products) "as necessary".
AMD was clearly sitting on Threadripper.  
There's no way it would be ready that quickly... unless it was already well into development/production.
 
I don't want to come off anti AMD.
If AMD is the better option (faster and solid), we're happy to use them.
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#54
Vastman
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/04 02:53:17 (permalink)
Bill Gabbert
The way I understand it....
AMD Only manufactures the Ryzen 1800x .
Then with a lazer, disables features and cores that result in the 1700s, 1600s, 1500s,1400s.
I guess Intel does the same thing....Marketing.


NOT marketing at all... it is economies of scale... if you can produce the same product and disable portions more cheaply than producing a variety of products to address various needs/price points, you are smart.  Needless to say, it says more about our race to the bottom line and flaws in the rape/pillage/plunder capitalistic system than "marketing"

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#55
gowimusic
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/10 17:35:41 (permalink)
Do you understand why the ryzen chip is not the clear winner?
#56
PrismaPhonic
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/12 16:13:21 (permalink)
Hi,

Someone linked this thread on a similar thread I made over on gearslutz where I benchmarked the 6900k vs the 1800x.  You may find my results interesting:

Gearslutz Thread:

Youtube video:
#57
PrismaPhonic
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/12 16:14:39 (permalink)
Weird, it wouldn't let me link them! 

Let me try again:

EDIT: Apparently this forum won't let me link anything!  Very weird.  Look up on Youtube my video "Intel vs AMD 8-Core Audio Showdown!"
#58
mettelus
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/12 17:01:57 (permalink)
A user with less than 25 posts cannot post direct links, but someone recently simply substituted the http with hxxp and the text came through fine.

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#59
Jim Roseberry
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Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/13 12:27:14 (permalink)
With the Intel 6850k or 6900k, Reaper will playback glitch-free right up to 100% CPU load.
With the 1800x (even with RAM running at 3200MHz), Reaper can not playback glitch-free with CPU load near 100%.
 
That said, when running the Reaper version of DAW Bench (using the 64Bit version of their Multi-Band Compressor for load), the 1800x outperformed the 6850k.  (I've posted the figures here on the forums.)
When running the 32Bit version of their Multi-Band Compressor, the 6850k outperforms the 1800x.
 
With Ryzen, getting RAM to run at 3200MHz (and the motherboard to behave rock-solid) is a quest.
We've got an 1800x with RAM running at 3200MHz... and it's mostly flake free.
But... a pair of USB ports just stopped working.
X370 motherboards were rushed out the door.  Worst launch I've seen in years.
 
I have no doubt the Ryzen platform will ultimately solidify... but for now, there's no way we'd build Ryzen for clients.
 
Threadripper certainly looks interesting (on paper).
We'll see how it goes in the real-world...
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#60
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